1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Denon SCAV-F100 or Mission FS2-AV?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Stevie G, May 8, 2002.

  1. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    I'm looking for a decent surround package, and both these look very nice, though I don't really know much about how good flat speakers sound. I'm looking for good music playback as well as movies......

    Any opinions, recommendations, etc? The Missions seem to be more known.....don't recall seeing the Denon's mentioned anywhere....

    Many thanks.
     
  2. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I was really looking forward to hearing these speakers last saturday, so I scoured every Hifi Dealership I could find,

    and not one dealer had them in stock, and to a man, every single dealer said they are not in the same street as any other sub sat package, comments like "Crap"No Bass"Waste of money"

    quite frankly I was amazed, as I was 99% set on buying them,
    but after all the negative feedback, I have now gone off them altogether.

    and while searching for them, I mentioned this in another post,

    I had a Demo of the Keff Eggs, WOW they are good, very good in fact I am currently searching for best prices, I want 6 sattelites though which bumps up the price, but I think 6.1 is the way to go.
     
  3. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    Which were you looking for, the Denon or the Mission?
     
  4. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The Missions
    sorry I was not very clear
     
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    I'm really suprised at that, as they've had really good reviews in mags. I'm pretty disappointed too, as one of these two were looking favourites to buy!

    Funnily enought they've got a review of the Eggs in the new What HiFi, in which they give the best six word sumation I think I've read......looks like Kylie, sounds like Danni.....! Superb!
    They thought they were very stylish looking, but were disappointed with the sound.

    They did rate that new AEGO surround speaker system with amp. I does look really nice, but it doesn't have DPL2, which is a neccessity to me.

    Hopefully someone else will be able to give some more opinions on the Mission or Denon.....
     
  6. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    Emanef.. dont be put off. there's nothing wrong with the Missions...
    they work perfectly for lots of people here including me...

    both What-Hifi and Home Cinema Choice cant be that far wrong...
    certainly as good or better than most sub/ sat packages upto £500-600.

    Party Animal.. as an aside.. I wouldn't believe some of the dealers for starters..
    the reason they dont like the fs2-av is that it has been
    heavily discounted, especially on the internet...

    conversely, the kef eggs arent allowed to be sold on the internet
    or in bulk buys, keeping the price (and markup) high for both
    the dealers and the company.
    Result - everyone moneywise is happy apart from the consumer.

    guess which one they want to sell you. ;)

    I tested the kefs and mission speakers together
    and there wasn't much in it either way.
    for £400, the missions were an easy choice for me...

    that £250+ difference can buy a lot of additional things... a new amp, dvd player or lots of dvds.

    do try and find somewhere to test them.. properly setup!
    (someone else on the forums had them demo-ed without the sub
    by one dealer...they need this.. result.. terrible sound).

    BTW, the Denons are just cut-down versions of the Missions,
    less power to sub and satellites, and a slightly different speaker
    design. still made by Mission also.
     
  7. richie44

    richie44
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    fs2-av

    I have similar expericences with demos of these speakers,everywhere i went,the dealers told me i was wasting my time as the missions were total crap.So after weeks deciding which way to go i finally bought them.Straight out of the box they do sound crap....BUT.....once setup well and a few hours running-in,i have to say they the best things i have ever bought and im one fussy so and so with my sounds........so if u thinking about buying the missions....do it
     
  8. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    Sorry, my mistake.....I was confusing the Klegg egg things for the Kef ones....! Only about £400 differance, and a hell of a lot more audibly.....!

    The Kef's do look real nice; seems ridiculous that they don't allow company to discount them - you'd think as long as Kef are getting what they want, it's up to retailers to deciding on their profits. Apparently not........who do they think they are.....Nintendo....? Microsoft....?!

    S'pose the argument goes for a lot of things, from cd's upwards; reduce the price and you'd sell $#!tloads more....!

    Still haven't ruled out the missions.....too many good reviews to compare to the odd bad one (and my room isn't that big!).

    Just need someone to tell me about the Denons..........pleeeeeease!
     
  9. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    I did tell you about the Denons...

    see the bottom of my last post?
     
  10. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    Oh yes, sorry!

    So they Mission's are the better bet of the two.....that's rules the Denon out then....! ;)

    Thanks
     
  11. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    What do the Mission's look like in silver? All the pcitures I've seen have been of the grey (I think, maybe white, if it's an off-white!). Are the silver proper metalic looking, or just silverish colour?

    Also, the Kef's......what's the cheapest you can get them for (I know they retail £800......) They do look very nice.....!

    Thanks.
     
  12. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    never seen the silver fs2s so cant comment.. I have the greys which are fine.

    pretty sure the cheapest anyone has had the kefs was around £650.. dont know which dealer though.

    the grey missions can still be had for around £400, though I believe empiredirect are still quoting £369 but with no stock yet.
     
  13. billduff

    billduff
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    275
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Just to the right of civilisation
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have the missions in silver and they lok great. The silver also matched the stands they make so if you are going for them as well then silver are the way to go.

    The grey's are cheaper at the moment as Mission are dporring them and only making them in Silver and I think White from now on (although I think black would be a good option as well).

    The silver isn't a metal silver, more like a non-metallic silver car colour but fit nicely in your room with out being too obtrusive.

    I agree with both MartinCo and ritchie in that they are excellent value and sound great (once set0up which can take a bit of tweaking but thats part of the fun).

    Once run-in they sound great from whereever you are in the room (no 'sweet-spot'). I'd recommend them to anyone.

    I demo'd the KEF eggs and couldn't detect enough of a difference to justify the extra £350.
     
  14. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    same here.. demo-ed against the kefs and couldn't see any real difference... very little in it.

    there seems to be a great resistance on some people's part with things like the FS2s.. you'd almost think they wanted huge speakers dominating the room.

    the kefs have a nice sound, but pretty ugly to look at...
    the high price they've kept is very much in line with the BMW marketing style... ie. they're expensive so they must be better.

    I dont want to see my speakers.. or that they are at least very unobstrusive... the fs2-av set does this perfectly for me.

    also, remember you get all the speaker cable and bits you need in the pack also.. usually extra with most other speakers.
     
  15. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    and do they (Missions) sound nice with music as well (cd audio and mp3 playback)?
     
  16. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Originally posted by MartinCo

    the kefs have a nice sound, but pretty ugly to look at...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    before Last saturday I would of agreed with the above statement, but having never actually seen them in the flesh, so to speak,

    I was really taken with them, and have seen the various arguments for and against, and at the end of the day, its all subjective.

    The missions as I said were at the top of my buying List, and if I had actually heard and liked them, I would of bought them, there and then,
    but when not one single dealer can find anything good at all, to say about them, it does,nt really inspire a customer to buy them

    and another thing sort of bugged me, were people on this forum saying that the Missions have no bass whatso ever

    I fully understand people saying the Flats are £400 cheaper. but It would always niggle me thinking I paid £400 for some no bass speakers.

    and going back to the Keff Eggs, the only critisism found on these forums about them, is that they think they are ugly, but not one comment saying they sound crap.
     
  17. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    no disagreement there, Party Animal, the kefs are nice speakers... but I think you've missed the point re the no bass comments from others.

    unlike the eggs, the sub and its setup is absolutely vital to the fs2s - it is absolutely correct to say that the satellites dont provide much bass by themselves...

    thats where the sub comes in... tuning the sound and filling in the most of the missing bass the satellites cant provide... bass is pretty much non-directional so you dont realise this.

    the sats may not provide much bass, but the full fs2-av set of speakers & sub together DO give perfectly acceptable levels of bass.. plus you can configure how much bass is output on the sub to taste or room layout.

    its the same with all sub/sat packages.. even the kefs.. sats do high/ mid range, sub covers the low end.

    thats why I was pretty dismissive of some (but not all) dealers... think it was richie44 a few posts above that had them demo-ed without the sub. not surprisingly.. they didn't sound good this way... hate to think what they did sound like!

    based on your comments and other peoples over the last few months, the margins on the fs2 set for a dealer must be pretty small now.. plus after a demo, they can still lose their sale to the internet. yet, the profit on the kefs is still the same as it was 12+ months ago... and they still aren't readily available over the net...

    must be a lot of very happy Kef dealers out there.

    shame you didnt hear the Missions demo-ed.. all it took to convince me, even against the kefs.

    Emanef, music-wise the fs2s are excellent for me, playing lots of CDs, plus some CDR MP3s.. slaughters my previous Tannoy set on all counts... ie.. overall sound, bass, music & movies.
     
  18. billduff

    billduff
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    275
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Just to the right of civilisation
    Ratings:
    +0
    Excellently put MartinCo.

    At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice and if you can get a dealer to demo both systems equally then you'll hear there is very little difference. In some areas the KEF will be better in others the Missions. Overall there is nothing to choose between them really (IMHO... please dont shout me down)

    My choice came down to the design and price as I really couldn't hear any difference. The Missions look better (even my girlfriend likes them) and are a lot less obtrusive and cheaper so I got them.

    As has been said, you cant get the KEF's overthe web so the price is high, meaning the dealer makes more on then, guess which one he pushes.

    Take a risk and buy them. Certainly a decision i dont regret, nor anyone else who owns them by the comments in here and other threads. With the extra cash go but a new DVD player or a bigger amp (or get another set and have a 10.2 setup!!!!)
     
  19. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    .....so it may not be in the interest of some retailers selling the Missions, or wasting time demoing them when they can slate them and recommend a more lucrative product......
     
  20. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    pretty close I'd say.

    allegedly.;)
     
  21. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    Thanks for the advice guys.....just got to chose a receiver now.....!
     
  22. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    Wow....just saw the stands you can get for the Missions.....kewell! They'd be ideal for the front two speakers.....! ;)
     
  23. richie44

    richie44
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    EMANEF........i was like you regarding the fs2-av........getting very bad remarks from dealers....yet they got good reviews on this forum and the mags....just take the plunge and buy-em,i promise you they sound great....as regard to the bass(your previous post),well they shake my floor..........honestly i cant fault them...............everyone ive demoed them to cant believe the sound........im real chuffed with mine.........i got mine from www.leconcepts.com
     
  24. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    I think my main worry about the Missions is due to my lack of knowledge of how the flat/NXT speakers work. With traditional speakers, generally the bigger they are the more they can pound out (though obviously vary greatly between manufacturers, etc), but I'm not sure how they work technically; ie how they push out much sound.

    Are they comparible to decent traditional speaker, such as the Warfedale Diamond Cinema package or Tannoy MX3/MXr/MCX system.....?
     
  25. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    If you have a look at the mission site, it explains how NXT technology works... (there's an 8 page pdf file somewhere.. vibrating piezo electric panel or similar).

    NXT panels are completely different from conventional speaker methods.. discovered by mistake, by british people working on military airplanes.

    my understanding of it, both technically and from having used them... the main advantage is that from a very small point (ie a satellite speaker) the sound expands out to much larger area and more evenly than normal speakers.

    because of this, you get a much bigger "sweetspot" since the sound is spread out over a greater area. this means they work well in both a stereo and home cinema sense creating a soundfield, plus the actual position of the speaker in both setups is far less important than in conventional speakers.

    ie.. you dont have to have them exactly the same distances, heights as per a normal 5 speaker setup, plus the resulting soundfield will be very similar.

    Its any help, I originally had a Tannoy M series setup.. now gathering dust.

    the Mission FS2-AV absolutely wipes the floor with them... in every area... should be similar results with others and most sub/sat setups in that price range.

    stereo performance for me was a vast improvement... stunning at times on all different types of music. a real 3-dimensional feel.. being able to pick instruments out from a very detailed image... really impressive.

    5.1dd/dts and prologic II also sound excellent... slaughters the Tannoys. think I convinced one of my cats that a fighter jet was flying over her head one night.
    ;)
     
  26. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
  27. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    brochure I was thinking of, is available at http://www.mission.co.uk/ftp/fs2_br_uk_web.pdf

    the nxt stuff is inside... mid-way... describes the soundfield and small point of origin stuff.

    I dont have the stands, all of mine are wall or corner mounted.
     
  28. Stevie G

    Stevie G
    Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    Thanks! I couldn't find it, only the link to the NXT website. I'll have a read.......
     
  29. billduff

    billduff
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    275
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Just to the right of civilisation
    Ratings:
    +0
    Emanef,

    I have a set of stands, I use them for my rears. They are not as shiny as they look in the photo on the website but they match the silver finish speakers perfectly. For about 90 a pair they are superb. As I've said before no-one has not liked the look or the sound of the speakers.

    The speakers fit on with no gap between them so it looks like a single unit. full cable run inside the stand so everything is kept neat. I have th cable comin up through a small slit in the carpet so there are no cables running from the wall to the speakers (just make sure you dont move them too fast when hoovering !!!.

    Unfortunalty I dont have a digital camera otherwise I'd post a picture but they do look great.

    In answer to your quest for a reciver I got a 3802 but I know a lot of of guys here are using 2802 with excellent results. I have absolutly no problems with the Denon, although there are other brands out there.
     
  30. MartinCo

    MartinCo
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +1
    yes... the Denons are all good matches for the FS2s. I've got a 2802.. excellent amp, very similar to the 3802 for a good deal less.

    that panasonic amp you posted does look very smart though... cool!

    Emanef, if you're interested I can post a photo of my setup tonight. mine are all corner/ wall mounted, with the cables routed up onto the picture rail - no wires visible at all.. you really dont notice them, they just merge into the background of the room - UNTIL some music starts.
     

Share This Page

Loading...