Denon/Marantz oficially anounce upgrade program for the AVCX8500 and the AV8805

dante01

Distinguished Member

Denon/Marantz paid upgrade program for the AVC-X8500 AV amp and the AV8805 processor​


Sound United have released details of their long awaited paid ugrade programs for the flagship Denon AVC-X8500 AV amp and the Marantz AV8805 processor:

de_avr_avc_X8500HA_CIRCUIT_BOARD_002_lo_12052021.jpg


The upgrade will allow for 8K/60Hz upscaling and pass-through, 4K/120Hz pass-through, HDR10+, Dynamic HDR, HDCP 2.3, as well as other HDMI 2.1 technologies* supporting transmission up to 40Gbps. Owners can upgrade to the new specifications by paying for an HDMI board upgrade (shown above).

*Variable Refresh Rate (VRR). Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) and Quick Frame Transport (QFT)



The AVC-X8500H delivers the most cutting-edge home theatre technology to-date. To build on its robust capabilities, you can now upgrade to the latest HDMI specification to experience superior picture quality, enhanced gaming options and other convenient features to match the uncompromising audio performance.

The upgrade - requiring hardware modification at an authorized Denon Service Center – will enable you to enjoy the following benefits of that adhere to the latest HDMI specifications. Please contact your local Denon retailer for more details.

The Marantz AV8805 defines the finest in home entertainment musicality and quality. It provides expansive connectivity and capabilities to design incredible immersive movie and music experiences in your home. Building on our legacy of superior AV processors, you can now upgrade your AV8805 to enjoy the latest HDMI specifications. Discover the industry’s best picture quality and gaming features alongside Marantz’s legendary audio performance.

We are excited to offer an HDMI 8K Upgrade for Marantz AV8805 owners. Discover more of what matters from your AV8805 with support for the latest HDMI specifications to enjoy your movies and video games like never before. The upgrade - requiring hardware modification at an authorized Marantz Service Center – will enable you to enjoy the following benefits of that adhere to the latest HDMI specifications. Please contact your local Marantz retailer for more details.


Along with the upgrades, both the AVC-X8500 and the AV8805 will be made available with the upgraded HDMI boards pre installed:

Pricing and availability: The Denon AVC-X8500HA starts shipping next month and will cost $4299 / €3,999 / £3,699. Owners of the previous Denon AVC-X8500H model can upgrade their existing AV amplifier with all the new features of the “A” model. The upgrade will cost $599 / €749 / £679.

Pricing and availability: The new Marantz AV8805A costs $4,799 / €4,299 / £3899 and is available next month from authorized Marantz retailers. The upgrade to “A” spec for owners of the previous AV8805 model can be booked by contacting a Marantz dealer directly and will cost $599 / €749 / £679.
 
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Jay53

Active Member
Have read the links but would it be possible to have a summary of what this £679 upgrade provides rather than trying to pick it out from a wall of marketing text?

I assume it is more than just a single hdmi 2.1 in/out? And the blurb for the new model mentions support for dts:x pro, so what else?

Thanks
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The board upgrades will basically give the models the same capabilities as the newer HDMI version 2.1 equipped models that were introduced last year. The obvious exception to this would be the HDMI version 2.1 bug associated with the chipset initially used onboard the first gen models. The chipset used on the upgrade board is a new one and not the chipset with the deficiencies associated with the one employed by Sound United initially.

The upgrade will allow for 8K/60Hz upscaling and pass-through, 4K/120Hz pass-through, HDR10+, Dynamic HDR as well as other HDMI 2.1 features sych as Variable Refresh Rate (VRR). Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) and Quick Frame Transport (QFT). You'd also get Quick Media Switching (QMS), a feature enables a source to instantly switch frame rates and eliminate screen blackout.


by default 2021-05-27 at 16.25.29.png





As is the case with existing Denon and Marantz HDMI 2.1 equipped models, there will be only one 8K/60Hz, 4K/120Hz enabled/compliant HDMI input.
 
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Jay53

Active Member
Sorry I got all that as familiar with hdmi 2.1 feature set. I was wondering what else you get for your £679 as whilst I gather that is the price they said the upgrade would be 2 years ago, it just seems....well....alot for a single hdmi 2.1 in/out?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The paid upgrade was scheduled for this year and not 2 years ago. It is later than expected, but by months and not years. I'd suggest the delay is caused by the HDMI version 2.1 bug issue. It would have been utterly pointless to start an upgrade program that installed replacement boards equipped with HDMI chipsets that suffered from the associated bug.

There is just one 8K/60Hz, 4K/120Hz enabled/compliant HDMI input and two outputs. THis is no different to what was available if purchasing one of the existing HDMI version 2.1 equipped models.


How much labour do you think this entails? What about the logistics and the repackaging costs? Yes, there will be a profit margin in that price, but I don't think it will be that big after the actual costs are accounted for? It is actually cheaper than I thought it would be. It is still a lot cheaper than having to replace the model with a comparable alreasy HDMI 2.1 equipped one.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
What a rip off


Great.

So you'll be opting to buy an AVC-X8500 with the board preinstalled for just £3,699 will you or maybe you'll be looking at the £5000 Denon AVC-A110?


As I implied, it will cost you consideran;y more to replace the AVC-X8500 or the AV8805 with a new comparable HDMI 2.1 equipped model. I think most existing owners will welcome the £680 upgrade options as opposed to having to fork out £3 - 4K on a replacement.
 
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Jay53

Active Member
Ok it's the same single 8k/60 4k/120 input as their other models. But that's not what I was asking.

My questions is why is it so expensive for what you are getting :)

Even the new A model prices have increased by £500 How on earth is a single hdmi 2.1 input/output worth that much
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Ok it's the same single 8k/60 4k/120 input as their other models. But that's not what I was asking.

My questions is why is it so expensive for what you are getting :)

Even the new A model prices have increased by £500 How on earth is a single hdmi 2.1 input/output worth that much


THe board itself costs Sound United money to manufacturer plus the fact there are labour costs associated with removing the old board and fitting the new one. It is still far cheaper than having to replace the AV receiver with a newer one that had these boards peew installed.
 

Jay53

Active Member
THe board itself costs Sound United money to manufacturer plus the fact there are labour costs associated with removing the old board and fitting the new one. It is still far cheaper than having to replace the AV receiver with a newer one that had these boards peew installed.

Ok, I so that partly explains the pricing for the upgrade but £500 more the newer model? Surely the older model should be less and this one comes in at the same or slightly more? Me thinks the pricing just reflects you are paying for the top end model so we think you can swallow the cost for a single port :D afterall the 2700 plus adapter box essentially gives you a single hdmi 2.1 in/out and street price is less than the upgrade so I don't buy the £500 cost increase for the new model lol
 
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Captain Ron

Well-known Member
The board upgrades will basically give the models the same capabilities as the newer HDMI version 2.1 equipped models that were introduced last year. The obvious exception to this would be the HDMI version 2.1 bug associated with the chipset initially used onboard the first gen models. The chipset used on the upgrade board is a new one and not the chipset with the deficiencies associated with the one employed by Sound United initially.

The upgrade will allow for 8K/60Hz upscaling and pass-through, 4K/120Hz pass-through, HDR10+, Dynamic HDR as well as other HDMI 2.1 features sych as Variable Refresh Rate (VRR). Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) and Quick Frame Transport (QFT). You'd also get Quick Media Switching (QMS), a feature enables a source to instantly switch frame rates and eliminate screen blackout.


View attachment 1519029




As is the case with existing Denon and Marantz HDMI 2.1 equipped models, there will be only one 8K/60Hz, 4K/120Hz enabled/compliant HDMI input.
That chart is confusing me a bit. Is it indicating that the column on the right is the current state of my X8500H and the column in the middle is what I get from the upgrade board? Also, isn't full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. Isn't 48Gbps required to support the full range of video output options on the latest XBOX?
 

Adam M

Active Member
I’m really in two minds about this.
 

Jay53

Active Member
That chart is confusing me a bit. Is it indicating that the column on the right is the current state of my X8500H and the column in the middle is what I get from the upgrade board? Also, isn't full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. Isn't 48Gbps required to support the full range of video output options on the latest XBOX?

Yes, the column on the right is current capability. It supports up to 4k/60 10bit yuv 4:2:2 over TDMS. This is the existing protocol used for hdmi 2.0b.

As well as the upgrade to support 8k/60 or 4k/120 the upgrade also updates the upscaling capability to 8k from all the hdmi inputs
 

Captain Ron

Well-known Member
I'll probably go for this at some point. Who knows what other firmware updates in the future will require the new board and as I am planning on buying a PS5 at some point this will mean that I still only need one HDMI to my TV. Now for those who have a PS5 and the new XBOX only one fully capable(ish) 2.1 input is a tad stingy but I imagine there will be an auto switching 2.1 port doubler available for those fortunate enough to own both.
 

Jay53

Active Member
There has been reports that a 3 port box will be available from Denon/marantz but will be a saleable item.
 

Adam M

Active Member
So there are other benefits on the other inputs that are worth considering.

many question is then, is it better to let the amplifier upscale to 8K or to allow the TV to upscale to 8K with its dedicated internal processor.
 

Captain Ron

Well-known Member
So there are other benefits on the other inputs that are worth considering.

many question is then, is it better to let the amplifier upscale to 8K or to allow the TV to upscale to 8K with its dedicated internal processor.
That would be completely device performance dependent and really only knowable by trying both options. Certainly letting the TV do the upscaling is going to be more efficient from a data throughput point of view.
 

Adam M

Active Member
Samsung 8K tv - they made a big fanfare about how good it was at upscaling (I guess it needed to be). I can’t imagine a generic hdmi board is going to have as much attention paid to its upscaling ability since it’s not its primary function.
 
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TechEnthu

Member
I assume it is more than just a single hdmi 2.1 in/out? And the blurb for the new model mentions support for dts:x pro, so what else?
Hahaha. Have you not noticed that we are bombarded with text and features, so it sounds as if it is a major step forward? It essentailly boils down to this:

1. the same board/capabilities as 2020 Denon models, with one single 40 Gbps input port
2. new, second gen HDMI chip instead of old defective one (so you don't need the adapter box)
 

Jay53

Active Member
Hahaha. Have you not noticed that we are bombarded with text and features, so it sounds as if it is a major step forward? It essentailly boils down to this:

1. the same board/capabilities as 2020 Denon models, with one single 40 Gbps input port
2. new, second gen HDMI chip instead of old defective one (so you don't need the adapter box)
Actually I knew that but was trying see if by some miracle I had missed something given the cost is more than the street price of a 2700 which will no doubt eventually come with the adaptor box hardware built in but nope lol
 
Great.

So you'll be opting to buy an AVC-X8500 with the board preinstalled for just £3,699 will you or maybe you'll be looking at the £5000 Denon AVC-A110?


As I implied, it will cost you consideran;y more to replace the AVC-X8500 or the AV8805 with a new comparable HDMI 2.1 equipped model. I think most existing owners will welcome the £680 upgrade options as opposed to having to fork out £3 - 4K on a replacement.
Hi Dante01!

As you mentioned the Denon AVC-A110 here, I just wondered if this had quietly been upgraded to the latest specification too? The 3x screenshots from the Denon UK website all show "New" at the top. It's obvious that the Denon AVC-X8500HA and the AVC-X8500H HDMI 8K Upgrade are both brand new but is the AVC-A110 also brand new or is the "New" at the top a bit of a misnomer because it was announced on 8th September 2020 which is coming up to 9 months ago. Perhaps there's an AVC-A110A in the pipeline if it hasn't been quietly brought up to the latest HDMI spec?

Thank you.
 

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TechEnthu

Member
Even the new A model prices have increased by £500 How on earth is a single hdmi 2.1 input/output worth that much
It's not. It's desperate. Their entire line-up with one single input port was a chain of embarrassing developments from the very beginning. In a few years, 2020 will be remembered as the most laughable tech transition in AVR industry, despite the fact that paid promoters, influencers and sellers would endlessly try to convince us that those devices or additional hardware are a 'good deal'.

It's so embarrassing that some product managers and engineers resorted to smearing competitors in public to defend their flawed products. Phil Jones from Sound United, one of main promoters of new line-up, recorded a long youtube video around New Year, together with several folks from cable and AV industry. By that time, they were exposed already. Despite that, he was defending the "one port" design by saying that "others", although hosting multiple ports, have slower ports (his reference to Yamaha's chip version). They were also showing slides with some basic mistakes in video image features, such as chroma subsampling. It looked amateurish. This was at the time when Yamaha already had a statement for the public that HDMI 2.1 would arrive via 'future update'. So, the competitor was smearing them for features that were not even activated on AVRs. It was like Coca-Cola saying that Pepsi is worse because it has less bubbles, pale colour and it's less refreshing. Completely farsical by him. When you hear such comments, you know they are desperate to cling to anything in nonsensical narrative.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
what is excellent here is we are actually seeing a price re adjustment here with local importer being bought up by sound united themselves ! happy days :D I bought mine late last year not sure if it was already local importer impacting then already but got for less than current rrp even with adding price of the A upgrade ! am pretty happy...

we have some stinking bargains on denon 8500 here for instance going for $4500 ! unprecedented ! and this is on back of the older gen marantz 8012 which was an unprecedented bargain... there is not much to complain i would suggest :)
 

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