Denon LFE

mohsin_uk

Novice Member
On my denon 1909 under sub settings I can choose ''LFE'' or ''LFE+MAIN'' but im not sure what the difference is between them? or if one mode is better then the other?

Anyone care to shed some light?
 

ajcasey

Active Member
Depends on your speakers really if thet are full range floorstanders then LFE+MAINS would probably suit, your best bet I would think is to choose LFE with a suitable crossover for your main speakers.You should be setting them to small in the menus.Doing this will take pressure off the amp and let the subwoofer do most of the hard work hope this helps:thumbsup:
 

markswift2003

Novice Member
The LFE+Main setting only has any effect if your mains are set to "Large", ie full range and has no effect if the mains are set "Small".

First thing to note is that there are very few speakers that should be set to "Large" - even most floor standers just won't flatline to 40Hz or below to justify setting to "Large".

So, assuming you have the mains set to "Large", setting LFE+Main will direct bass below the Mains' crossover frequency (set in the menu - defaults to 40Hz) not only to the Mains (since they are "Large", the x-over point is ignored) but also the sub, giving you a double hit of bass (note - bass, not sub-bass)

On LFE only, the sub does not receive any of the Mains' bass, only what's coming out the amp's LFE channel - whether that's direct from the LFE track or produced by the amp in a DSP setting.

As I said, if the mains are set "Small" the LFE+Main has no effect and does the same as setting to LFE only.

Mark
 
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piizei

Novice Member
It is good to remember that there are other setting that affect how crossover setting work and that it also varies a bit by manufacturer. Another thing is that at least better AVRs allow you to set different settings for multichannel and stereo. Thirdly, you should keep in mind that there are multiple crossover settings, one/many for speaker channels, one for LFE.

For example, with Denon 3808 and movies (DD/DTS) I have all sepakers (5.1) set to small, cross over at 60hz for front and surround (40 for the center) and LFE crossover 120Hz. This way I utilise the speakers relatively good sound quality (MA RS AV set) while getting the full punch of the subwoofer for special effects.

In other words I dont want my subwoofer to get too much involved on medium bass range while subwoofer should take care of the LFE range fully. I also use audyssey for multichannel in order to optimise multichannel sound for the speaker distance variations and multiple listening positions.

For music (stereo) everything is very different. Firstly, I want to use direct mode so no audyssey or any other sound processing will occur. If you have good enough speakers and good source, I think this is the best way to go. While Audyssey can improve the sound in case of poor acoustics, it also colors the sound, usually into something much much worse. If you never listened to music with all audio processing off, please try it out. You migh be amazed.

Secondly, because there often are problems with the room acoustics, you really need to find a proper combination of crossover settings and best possible locations for speakers.

I have had big problems with thumping and exaggerated bass. Depending on the music, sometimes bass is ok, sometimes purely annoyingly "thumpy", sometimes boomy, sometimes as if the bass track had been separately mixed in by someone without proper skills (which can, of course, be the case sometimes :D).

Besides improving the positioning of speakers (actually moved them 10cm away from the listening position, which is more than 3m) I finally figured out a good combination for Denon 2 ch direct/stereo settings, for my room.

According to instructions and advises, from various forums, I had originally tried to run the speakers as small and subwoofer as LFE+main, with crossover at 40-80Hz. Might be that this could work with a better subwoofer (than MA rsw12), but in my case this results in a very boomy, unnatural bass. If I play music without subwoofer the sound quality is better, but the boominess is still there.

The best combination was to set front speakers (RS6) to large and subwoofer to LFE+main with crossover of 100Hz. This way I get the better sound quality from front speakers in lower frequencies plus the subwoofer actually lessens the thumpiness (is that a word) and boominess (or that :)), creating a much tighter and controlled bass.

It can take a lot of time and effort to find out the right sound settings and position for your speakers, but its definitely worth it specially if you listen to high quality music a lot :thumbsup:
 

piizei

Novice Member
You want to read this

Audyssey | Blog Archive | Small vs. Large

:smashin:

Cheers,

Alberto
I fully agree with this when it comes to multi-channel and movies.

My main point was that it is all very different with music. If someone with with a proper amp/avr recommends you to listening to music with audysseu on, he probably never tried listening the same music with direct mode.

On the matter of small vs large, it is possible that my subwoofer is not good enough but then again I have hard time imagining any subwoofer could, or is meant to, fully cover instruments around 40-100Hz. Because of this, at least in my room and equipment I got the best result setting front speakers large. Perhaps this can cause problems when using inadequate amp/avr.
 

roosterx

Standard Member
Great website. Wish I had looked for this kind of "dictionary" when I first bought my Denon.
Yes it really did help me to get started with my avr-4310.

He is also very helpful and seem to be quite knowledgeable(is that really a word? ;))
 

sanderdvd

Active Member
The LFE+Main setting only has any effect if your mains are set to "Large", ie full range and has no effect if the mains are set "Small".

As I said, if the mains are set "Small" the LFE+Main has no effect and does the same as setting to LFE only.

Mark
This was exactly the information I was looking for! My measurements with REW showed the same results with the settings SMALL + LFE and SMALL + LFE/MAIN and I was wondering why this was.

But can you explain to me why my Crossover setting in my Marantz SR5005 AVR is automatically disabled when choosing LARGE + LFE?

And a second thing I was thinking about a little more:
Let s say we play a 5.1 movie with settings SMALL, LFE and crossover set at 80. Thanks, but how does this work properly in ANY system:

Let s say we play a 5.1 movie with settings SMALL, LFE and crossover set at 80. In the movie a sequence passes where .1 (LFE) signals are send to the subwoofer but ALSO at the same time some 60-70Hz info (that was initially meant for the mains, center or surrounds) is send to the subwoofer; how does a subwoofer 'handle' this double information??
 
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Member 639844

Former Advertiser
This was exactly the information I was looking for! My measurements with REW showed the same results with the settings SMALL + LFE and SMALL + LFE/MAIN and I was wondering why this was.

But can you explain to me why my Crossover setting in my Marantz SR5005 AVR is automatically disabled when choosing LARGE + LFE?

And a second thing I was thinking about a little more:
Let s say we play a 5.1 movie with settings SMALL, LFE and crossover set at 80. Thanks, but how does this work properly in ANY system:

Let s say we play a 5.1 movie with settings SMALL, LFE and crossover set at 80. In the movie a sequence passes where .1 (LFE) signals are send to the subwoofer but ALSO at the same time some 60-70Hz info (that was initially meant for the mains, center or surrounds) is send to the subwoofer; how does a subwoofer 'handle' this double information??
If the mains are set to large then they run full range so the crossover is disabled as it does nothing. The crossover for the sub should be active, but if it isn't it must be because Marantz assume you'll just do it on the sub and/or your running a high level connection.

The sub handles the double signal no problem at all because the lfe channel is 10db's hot over the re-directed bass, so therefore only the lfe is heard. A double signal as you put it is not an issue anyway, as they are essentially identical.
 

av2011

Active Member
Hi
With Kef R300 as fronts monitor audio mass gen 2 as rear speakers
What settings should I use with SVS SB1000 subwoofer please in manual mode

LFE or LFE main.
Not set up audyssey yet
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Hi
With Kef R300 as fronts monitor audio mass gen 2 as rear speakers
What settings should I use with SVS SB1000 subwoofer please in manual mode

LFE or LFE main.
Not set up audyssey yet
I strongly suggest you run Audyssey as it is the best way to incorporate the sub. Use LFE only. Phase to zero. Crossover on the sub to maximum (usually 120hz-140hz). To start Audyssey put the sub's gain to around 10 o'clock then check the sub's level. It needs to be between -12dB and +12db, the closest to 0dB the better but either -6dB or +6dB will be fine. Adjust the gain on the sub as needed.

After running Audyssey set all speakers to small. The R300s will roll off between 40 and 60hz depending on your room and the crossover can be raised to 80hz. Leave the surrounds as Audyssey has set if higher than 80hz.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Set it to the highest setting even if above 120hz.:smashin:
 

meagabyte

Active Member
Set it to the highest setting even if above 120hz.:smashin:
What? If using with an avr it should be on LFE which he currently has it on surely. Only change I’d make it turn the gain yo a few clicks :D
 

gibbsy

Moderator
What? If using with an avr it should be on LFE which he currently has it on surely. Only change I’d make it turn the gain yo a few clicks :D
The LFE crossover on the sub should always be set to it's highest, in this case it's shown as the low pass filter. The gain is determined by Audyssey to keep it within the -12dB to +12dB setting so that the receiver can easily control the LFE, the closer to 0dB the better. It may mean the gain going up on the sub or conversely going down.
 

meagabyte

Active Member
Hmm all the manuals I’ve read for subs say that if connecting to a AVR, the crossover should be set to LFE if it has that option.
I’ll be annoyed if this is not that case and where I have been going wrong all this time lol
 

meagabyte

Active Member
Pulled this from the PC2000 manual 4D540104-B02D-48B9-9376-738C84F280B5.jpeg
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Hmm all the manuals I’ve read for subs say that if connecting to a AVR, the crossover should be set to LFE if it has that option.
I’ll be annoyed if this is not that case and where I have been going wrong all this time lol
I couldn't see the back very well on the posted image. Looking at the manufacturer's imagine I can now see that the dial is marked LFE, bottom clockwise. So my bad.
 

meagabyte

Active Member
I couldn't see the back very well on the posted image. Looking at the manufacturer's imagine I can now see that the dial is marked LFE, bottom clockwise. So my bad.
Dam I was almost hoping that I had it wrong and making that change would somehow grant me the ability to shake the walls done haha.
 

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