Denon bdp2010 vrs Arcam bd100

john01707

Active Member
I wonder if any of the learned members would advise whether the new arcam bd player is worth changing to from my denon bdp2010, or would it be changing for that old reason that you just want something new!
Regards
John
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
I wonder if any of the learned members would advise whether the new arcam bd player is worth changing to from my denon bdp2010, or would it be changing for that old reason that you just want something new!
Regards
John

I guess it depends on the reason you want to change and your performance criteria.

The heart of the BDP-100 appears to a Broadcom reference design that also seems to appear in other products such as Anthem's player. There's some feedback on the Anthem here - http://www.avforums.com/forums/blu-ray-players/1364801-anthem-blx-200-a.html#post13504911.

Arcam have added an additional board to add an additional two channel analogue output, serial and IR control.

Avi
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
and there is loads of rubbish being written about these designs atm, largely by people with no first hand experrience of them. You would be far better to go and try one, to get a good experience tied into your requirements from a player.
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
Actually Nic, I take exception to that comment, at which point are we allowed to discuss the cost of say the Arcam to what you get performance wise? £1000 and it hooks up via HDMI (consider all the other BD players that does so at £100-300 cost), sorry old bean I'd not have said a word had I not seen the inside of that case. If we argue that the Arcam is an astonishing step up from a PS3 then fine £1000 could become a reason to buy it -but how can it be via HDMI for Vision/Audio? Serious question BTW. I have no problem with people buying what they want, but it is perfectly within our right to question cost of a BDP when we see the inside and what other player can do BD & upscale wise at the £300 mark in the industry via HDMI.

Hope we don't fall out over this have enjoyed your comment & reference knowlegde for a long time!, we are simply seeing this from different perspectives.

As has been said by a few people on BD use, never has there been a more level playing field due to the tech, the days of putting a fancy cover on a player and charging away over the odds are gone I reckon, many people can see that with their £100-300 BD players, compare this to the SD-DVD heyday, when even I could see that spending £1000-2000 on a DVD player gave a real step up on performance from £200 players. An interesting time this I feel, one that only promises to deliver fantastic playback for pennies for many users. We have never had it so good, I sometimes feel that specialist audiophile companies bolting onto BD have lost the way, when you see what Oppo or mainstream companies like Sony or Marantz, Denon do. They cannot compete cost wise.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
But you are missing my point totally. I have made no claim re the performance of this reference design or the other one mentioned. My point is people should listen to it themselves and make there own mind up. What is wrong with that? In fact I remember the time when I was pretty much the lone voice on this forum telling people there ain't much difference in Blu ray players playing Blu ray films at [email protected] bitstreaming on modern players, now look where we are. If people followed that advice however we would all have Sony 370s or similar. The increase in price people want and do spend on the players are for all the other things that are lumped on players to make manufacturers more money and as such everyone will be different and have different priorities. The Arcam thread is a classic example of people seeing things in black and white which is why I advise people to try it for themselves, as one persons advice will not necessarily be good for someone else, especially with players like the Arcam. I certaily have never seen the Arcam debates about quality of Blu ray films, which is why I haven't commented on this at all. I see Arcam and players like it aiming for a different market to the Sony 370, for different reasons, non of which are for picture quality reasons.

The debate of picture quality of a 100 vs 300 vs 1000 pound players is for a seaprate thread and is not an Arcam thing, or a Pioneer thing (sub you favourite make here) and shouldn't be done with any one manufacturer in mind. It effects them all and as such should be kept generic.
 
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Avi

Distinguished Member
I see Arcam and players like it aiming for a different market to the Sony 370, for different reasons, non of which are for picture quality reasons.

I suspect people are swayed by brand and may have limited experience of other products or the knowledge to properly asses/understand the difference.

The Arcam is no better or worse than many Blu-ray products. If cosmetic continuity with other Arcam product is important then it may be worth the premium for some.

The danger is when "brand name" alone becomes a factor in performance i.e. a "cheaper" brand that tweaks the image often generates a different reaction to a "premium" brand that applies the same tweaks. I've seen and heard the Arcam but I'm looking forward to a credible, dispassionate and detailed review. :)

Avi
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
But you are missing my point totally. I have made no claim re the performance of this reference design or the other one mentioned. My point is people should listen to it themselves and make there own mind up. What is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with that at all Nic I totally agree - if someobody wants a BD player simply because they like the case design then it is a valid personal purchasing decision, but that is not how you point is coming across to me. It seems to me that no matter what cost this Arcam would be rolled out at, you'd try to defend it by using that cavaet, ie try, don't listen to all the rubbish spouted by others. So people cannot question a BDP and its cost/perofrmance unless they try it. (think Goldmumd/Lexicon here and their base player roots).

In fact I remember the time when I was pretty much the lone voice on this forum telling people there ain't much difference in Blu ray players playing Blu ray films at [email protected] bitstreaming on modern players, now look where we are. If people followed that advice however we would all have Sony 370s or similar. The increase in price people want and do spend on the players are for all the other things that are lumped on players to make manufacturers more money and as such everyone will be different and have different priorities.

[email protected] & Bitstream audio is the point I make about £1000 being a high cost ratio to performance, that is all the Arcam has BDP PQ/AQ?

I certaily have never seen the Arcam debates about quality of Blu ray films, which is why I haven't commented on this at all. I see Arcam and players like it aiming for a different market to the Sony 370, for different reasons, non of which are for picture quality reasons.

HDMI bitsreaming then? plus 2 channel CD use?

Nic, I am not trying to get you into a corner honestly, but the only problem I have with the Arcam is that it "seems" to do [email protected], Bitstream via HDMI just like any other BDP well below £1000, now Arcam can charge what they like, but they will get flak when picture emerge of the internals of the player, no matter how much a customer is willing to pay for said player. People will query what you get for that £1000.

Anyway as I said, I enjoy reading your comment, and we are allowed to disagree on some issues! ;)
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
I suspect people are swayed by brand and may have limited experience of other products or the knowledge to properly asses/understand the difference.

The Arcam is no better or worse than many Blu-ray products. If cosmetic continuity with other Arcam product is important then it may be worth the premium for some.

The danger is when "brand name" alone becomes a factor in performance i.e. a "cheaper" brand that tweaks the image often generates a different reaction to a "premium" brand that applies the same tweaks. I've seen and heard the Arcam but I'm looking forward to a credible, dispassionate and detailed review. :)

Avi

Excellent and succinct points AVI, I agree with them all apart from where the Arcam differs though (from other BDPs) is that it has a ery empty case and costs £1000.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
but that is not how you point is coming across to me. It seems to me that no matter what cost this Arcam would be rolled out at, you'd try to defend it by using that cavaet, ie try, don't listen to all the rubbish spouted by others. So people cannot question a BDP and its cost/perofrmance unless they try it. (think Goldmumd/Lexicon here and their base player roots).

Point is a very simple one, regardless of price and whatever brand it is people should get first hand experience of the product. I would not read anymore into this than I have written repeatedly. The is no subtext here. I am neither pro or anti this Arcam player, but I am into people trying for themselves and making their own informed judgements according to what they want from a player, whether this Arcam one or ANY OTHER PLAYER.

[email protected] & Bitstream audio is the point I make about £1000 being a high cost ratio to performance, that is all the Arcam has BDP PQ/AQ?

No it has other attributes aswell but these may not be high on your or mine agendas but they will be for others.

but the only problem I have with the Arcam is that it "seems" to do [email protected], Bitstream via HDMI just like any other BDP well below £1000

and Sony, and Pioneer and Denon and Panasonic and Oppo and Lexicon and Goldmund and all the others, these are generic debates to have in a separate thread and they don't relate just to Arcam and it is unfair to put them in a thread of one manufacturer.
 
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KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I saw the Arcam yesterday, but it was hampered by some issue with the JVC X7 that meant it was only able to output at 1080/50p from BluRay. I thought the motion seemed smoother, but as Avi pointed out in another thread, this could be the effect of the 50Hz smoothing things (frame converstion errors notwithstanding).

It did however reinterate my desire to try this player in my own setup. I'd rather not spend £1k, but if I see improved motion then I may consider the upgrade...but it seems it may have been down to the projector as it's 2 generations newer than mine. I'm in the cynical camp myself, so I'll take some persuasion.

I'd be interested to read of any demos you have John in the meantime. If you can bring the player home against a deposit, then I think that's a better way to compare with your current one (and what I plan to do myself).
 

Damian1978

Well-known Member
The BDP100 makes for a very nice CD player. As a DVD player it is also excellent in comparison to my Toshiba HD XE1 and previous Arcam DV137. Blu ray is very very good but not massively different to any of my previous players but is very very responsive and so far has had no issues with any of my Blu rays.

For me...I wanted a player to go with my new upgrade in amp and the deal was too good to miss so stuck to Arcam. I think it's a great player, build quality not as good as previous Arcam products or one worth £1k but if you can cut a good deal I think it's worth it as an all round decent player.
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
Smartie, interesting comments, just show how this player will vary on users though even Arcam users, here are the views of a complete Arcam system user (he has one of the finest systems I have seen created for surround and stereo use) on another forum:

Good luck in finding a multi format player that matches the 139 for it's DVD upscaling and audio performance. I've been looking around for the last year to see if I can replace mine with a 1 box solution. I've had so many BR players through my hands from dealers I'm beginning to lose count - including the new Arcam BDP 100 and stuff from Oppo, Cambridge, Pioneer, Sony and Panasonic. I've decided to continue to use the 139 for DVD and multi channel music and a cheapo Samsung (5200) for Bluray. The BDP 100 is an excellent performer but I came to the conclusion that it's CD replay and DVD upscaling falls short of the 139. The BDP 100 is a very fine BR player but it is not true multi-format and doesn't do SACD/DVDA and is an expensive option just for BR replay.

A chap who knows his onions IMHO. He actually liked the BDP 100 also.
 
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Damian1978

Well-known Member
If I could afford the DV139 then I would've got one but I think this is a good upgrade from the DV137.
 

john01707

Active Member
Well gentlemen i am quite impressed at the level of debate i have caused with my enquiry, and i have to say a well balanced one at that. I would have to say that given my low level of technical knowledge the argument for staying with my denon 2010 has won, as the arcam does not sound to be a vast improvement worthy of another £1000. The main issue with the denon is a long time to load and sometimes not loading some discs, but in general a fine picture and sound reproduction. Many thanks for the advice,
John
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
John if I had asked your orginal question, I'd try to get a look at the thing in action. I seen the PS3 & S760 in action before I bought them.
 

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