Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Shiver2K8, Jan 3, 2012.
Is the 2312 worth the extra £110?
If you factor in that you get Audessey LFC (Low Frequency Correction) then the answer is yes. If you were to go buy a basic Anti Mode to do similar then that would set you back another £230 on its own.
I'm no great fan of Room EQ systems, but ALFC is interesting in that it deals with the low end frequencies lesser amps do not have the facilities to deal with when using their EQ systems.
The only difference that I can see besides the 15watts per speaker more is that the 2312 is Audyssey Pro ready, is that worth the extra, not sure what any off these features are lol.
The implementation of Audessey is a major selling point. As I said, it has ALFC.
It also has video processing not present on the AVR1912 and 2 additional HDMI inputs.
The AVR1912 has ALFC DENON UK
But you are right with the video processing as its limited to 576p. Thanks for your input.
The 2312 has a proper pre-amp zone 2, which is tempting for me (although I could use AirPlay multi-room), but also doesn't the 2312 have a better on-screen GUI?
HDMI on the front is very handy too...
I'm trying to decide which one to go for... I'm not really bothered about all the extra inputs or the upscaling, because I'll just let the TV do that... I'm quite interested in the HDMI port on the front and the better GUI (but how much better is it?)... Is it worth the extra cash for these things?
IMHO yes. It should hopefully sound better too Are you going to demo?
Is the quality of the amp itself actually better too then?
I'm not entirely sure if demoing is useful unless I can "demo" at home... After all, I intend on keeping the speakers I already own, plus room acoustics can also make a considerable difference.
I know it's fairly trivial, but I would also be interested in finding out what the differences are with the on-screen GUI... The 2312 is supposed to have an "advanced GUI", whatever that means. Does anyone know?
The only way to test a GUI would be to get hands on and the only way to do this would be in store. I personally wouldn't pick an AVR based on the GUI. Sure they might look nice and give you something to drool over 5 minutes after opening the box but after that, how often do you really use it in day to day operation?
Download the online manuals and you should see some pics.
There are some pics for the AVR-1912 GUI. HERE. There are pics for the AVR-3312 on the same site.
IMO, I would always get the best AV Receiver you can afford. You will only end up wondering how much better the model up would have been months down the line. The extra cost will be long forgotten by then.
In the end, the only way to truly decide is to go and visit a dealer. Forum opinion is just that. The only opinion that counts is yours. It always amazes me that on AVF people post 'Model A' vs 'Model B' questions and expect others to do the comparison for them.
Personally I have to disagree. I'm a bit of an Apple interface design geek, and I know from previous purchasing experience of certain equipment (Samsung, Yamaha) that crap usability makes me sometimes wish I'd spent more money. It can turn a great piece of hardware into a terrible bit of kit to use on a day-to-day basis. If the GUI differences are purely cosmetic, then fair enough. But if the "advanced" means that it's more intelligent and easier to use, then that to me is as important as good sound quality.
I could ask to demo in the store, but I'm guessing they won't have them connected to a TV so I'd have to ask them to set it up. Also I probably wouldn't be able to get an idea of how good/bad it is without using it every day. Does anyone have any day-to-day real world experience using these machines?
That's a good idea, thanks!
Absolutely. But it's nice to see if anyone has any useful opinions before testing out for myself. I can go into a store and the assistant may say it's the best thing since sliced bread, but forums can actually tell you from personal experience that they own one and it's a piece of crap.
Apple products are design orientated and you use a graphical interface to operate them. You don't use a GUI on an AV Receiver to operate an AV Receiver after it has been setup. At least that is what I do. Once setup, you switch it on and then select the input. I do this by one button press of a universal remote. I rarely venture into the OSD. I tend to watch the movie or TV programme more than I stare at graphics.
You usually need to ring up the dealer in advance to arrange a demo.
To be honest, no one on here seems to want to demo for themselves these days. The assistant can say what he likes. Sit down, get comfy and play and most importantly listen. That is the primary function of an AV Receiver i.e. to produce sound not fancy graphics.
I don't see any point in demoing unless I can take the box home and try it out in my own living room. I can appreciate if people want to demo equipment if they are also buying the speakers, but demoing a box on completely different speakers (usually incredibly expensive reference speakers designed to encourage a sale) and in a room designed for the best possible acoustics is not a real world test.
That is why I rely on people who have real world personal experience for more insight. I'm not asking people on here who haven't tried them before, I'm asking people on here who have.
What is the point in that? They don't have your speakers, your room or your ears.
I'm not going to make a purchased *based* on other people's advice, I just like to ask if anyone has any thoughts of personal experiences that may help. What's wrong with that? Why are we arguing over this anyway? if you don't have anything to say except "try for yourself" then what's the point in replying?
Because you are not listening to the very 'opinions' that you are attempting to solicit. The reasons the 2311 is 'better' than the 1912 have been listed what more can be said?
You are only replacing the amp. Do you really the think the amp is going to make that much of a difference to how your speakers (which are not being changed) interact with your room, unless you engage the EQ and ultimately to get it absolutley right you need to measure the room itself using something like the XTZ analyser or REW and then use a combination of EQ and room treatment once you have the graphs.
I know for a fact that there are combinations of kit that I can not stand to listen to for several hours because I find them fatiguing. However others love these combinations and find them 'exciting'. Hence the only opinion that counts in the end is yours and this is why you go to a good dealer and demo as I suspect you know.
A really good dealer will also let you do a home demo if you arrange it or in effect do a buy and replace deal.
It is not unknown for a dealer to suggest bringing your speakers/kit in to try during the demo with the piece in question or they will attempt to use the same speakers as you own if they are in stock. You take your own favorite music and films with you. Then you get a shortlist. You've given no indication of anything apart from I want a new amp, no preferences or anything not even the speakers you are keeping, I could suggest every manufacturer going not that it'll help you.
As for the GUI as has been pointed out to you, you do it once or twice and then it's very infrequently touched. As I said room interaction is more to do with how poor your room may or may not be and how it effects the flat line response of your speakers the amp is not the biggest factor here (it'll control how much you can fill the room and how hard you have to drive the speakers) but it won't sort out out a big dip in the response at say 40Hz. Thats what room EQ and room treatments are for.
Comparing a computer HCI look and feel to an AV receiver is somewhat pointless. No AVR HCI is ever perfect the processing power is just not there to spare but then you use it a couple of times ever.
An audio system should be a personal purchase as a good one is not cheap. Or rather do you buy a car without test driving or a house without having a good look around?
I have been listening to you and appreciate all your advice on the subject.
What I don't understand is why you are complaining about people who come on forums to ask the difference between one unit and another. If you don't understand it, why are you even posting to this thread?
I know that, I will go have a listen and decide for myself, as you have already suggested. What I wanted to know from the people on here is what all the other differences were, including the GUI. I was interested in the GUI, I don't see what's so wrong about that. If you don't know the difference, then please don't have a go at me for asking.
I did not know this. I am going to Richer Sounds in a minute and will ask them about this. Thanks.
Actually I think it's more than that. These boxes also include AirPlay and so the GUI will potentially reflect things like "now playing". I was talking about the GUI but I was also interested if the ease of use between the two units was comparable. I am thinking of the other people in my home and whether the more expensive unit would be easier for them to use.
I never said computer. When I talk about Apple I am talking about design ethos not just being about what something looks like, but how well it works and how easy it is to understand.
I don't know where you got the idea from that I rely on word-of-mouth and have no thought for demoing it for myself. I was merely stating that demoing equipment in a reference-based environment is not that much better than asking people what they think on a forum.
Airplay is going to be controlled from your nice Apple device thats what is doing the slinging of audio and is your head unit hence the GUI of the AVR is pretty irrelevant, how pretty does a bit of text and an album picture need to be when you have a purpose built GUI like cover flow?
I think you are confusing me with DavePuma re lack of demoing (but I do agree with him) however, the list of reasons why it's 'better' than the 1912 were listed earlier in the thread, did you want me to repeat them again?
The whole point of EQ and room treatment is to get you closer to the reference environment, I mean it's never going to be bang on without huge amounts of effort but a dealer demo tells you what you should be able to get near and gives you an idea of the very expensive kit you are are purchasing and a few different systems based on what you are liking in the shop then you can have a home demo of the particular piece you like. You'd be amazed, often times what people think they want and then what they actually purchase (well when you demo, of course).
I contacted my local RS and they said they still had the 2312 in stock but the price was back up to £499 as the £399 sale price had now ended. Anybody else confirm this, the RS website says the 2312 is £439 with 5 year warranty.
Current price I was given is £449, but nothing was said about 5 year warranty. 1912 is £289.
I'm just interested in how the interface manifests itself, and how it differs between the 1912 and 2312. I was also interested in finding out if selecting the Denon AirPlay "speakers" automatically changes the Denon source, or if you have to change it manually using the remote. Anyone know?
You're right, I did mistake you. Sorry! I did see the list of reasons as being higher watts-per-channel, ALFC and upscaling. But I don't recall asking for a list of differences. I asked if anyone had any real-world experience in using either of the two machines.
I see where you are coming from, but I shan't carry on debating in-store demos because I think we're going a bit off-topic. But incidentally I went to RS at lunch time and the guy was suggesting that Yamaha are better for all-round audio quality these days (he reckons)... So I may have to also check out the RXV671 as well (though I think the Denon looks nicer)
Automatically. I make sure iTunes is on on whatever Mac I want it to be, then run Remote from my iPhone or iPad. The Denon will appear in the list of Airplay speakers if it is switched on.
You get a one-liner display on the Denon of what is playing and the usual stuff on the iDevice. The Denon remote allows you to skip tracks and pause, but there is a slight delay.
You can also manage the Denon from its web interface, and to a lesser extent from the iDevice applications, (the Denon one and a third party one). I like this because I run a projector and it is a pian to fire it up just to change some setting on the AVR.
PS I'm an Apple user and I went for the 2312.
Nice one... Thanks for the info! I'm definitely veering towards the 2312. Wish I bought it when it was cheaper in Richer Sounds though if anyone has any details on where it can be bought cheaply I'd be very grateful
Denon AVR-2312 Airplay 7.1ch DolbyHD AV Receiver 2-Year Warranty [AVR-2312] - £399.00 : 123av.co.uk, Great Deals on LCD TVs | Sony Blu Ray Recorders | Alphason TV Stands | Samsung Flat Screen TVs
Another £25 for delivery but its was but cheaper than £500 at least.
Very true, thanks for that!
I've got to decide whether it's worth plumping for now, or waiting until March/April to see if they do WiFi versions... I can't really afford it but I want it so badly!
The only thing with waiting for the new ones is they will be back up near RRP.
I bought a set of these at the same time and theyre working great.
Good point about the RRP... And the RRP of the 2312 was about £800 wasn't it! With those Ethernet Power devices, can you buy extra ones so they all talk to each other, or do they just work in pairs?
You can buy extras to add in im not sure how many in total you can use.
No pressure, but I've just ordered one of the two that they said they have in stock. So there's only one left now... (*)
Whether Powerline works better or worse than Wifi really depends on your house. Where I am they're more or less the same, so I use both. I use powerline for things that don't move, eg. NAS and AVR and HTPC, and Wifi for things that do. Obviously your mileage may vary and there's only one way to find out if your mains wiring is good for powerline
(*) Yes, I am an evil bastard.
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