Denon AVR-X4500H Owners Thread

gibbsy

Moderator
@Tricky01 I would open a question up in the players forum. I've just pulled up the 820's user manual and have to ask why have Panasonic made it so clumbersome. So glad I went for a Pioneer, the interface may seem straight out of the 1990s but it is much easier to set up and use.

 

AVPup84

Novice Member
To get HD audio you need to have your sources outputting bitstream. The Denon should automatically recognise the incoming signal and decode it. I've never had a problem with any Denon doing so. The photographs you have shown above do show that you are receiving the correct audio from the player.

The player has two HDMI and you should tell the player that you are using the two so that the correct audio is sent to the Denon. Standard def DVDs will only have basic Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1. The photo shows that the Denon is correctly upmixing to use all your connected speakers.

You will need blu ray discs or 4K discs to be able to take advantage of the HD audio with Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA HD. They may also come with an Atmos or DTS X soundtrack. Those discs, primarily blu ray, may just have the TrueHD or DTS MA track and again these would be upmixed by the Denon using Dolby Surround and DTS Neural.

You will not get Dolby or DTS using PCM. PCM is an audio format initself and does not carry Atmos or DTS X. Go back to what you were using when you took those photographs, that is the correct setting.
I watched a standard bluray (sound track on the back of the disc was showing 5.1 DTS TrueHd but my denon was showing DTS TrueHD Neural X and was utilising all channels including the heights. Is this sort of upmixing normal for the denon by default? Is there a setting to set the sound mode to auto so denon plays the original soundtrack as intended by the input/ Blu-ray Disc without any upmixing? It’s just that if my denon is set to upmix by default, I might be loosing certain metadata especially when playing actual Atmos content. To be honest I have only seen this Sort of upmixing when playing discs with DTS TrueHD. Without altering any settings, if I play a standard DTS 5.1 disc Denon doesn’t apply any upmixing unless I manually scroll through different sound modes. Is this sort of Neutal X upmixing normal for DTS- TrueHD?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
5.1 DTS TrueHd but my denon was showing DTS TrueHD Neural X
There is no such format as DTS TrueHD. It's Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA. If the 4500 was showing Neural X then you were receiving a DTS HD-MA and the Denon was correctly mixing using Neural. The upmixing mode for Dolby TrueHD would have Dolby Surround showing on the screen.
 

AVPup84

Novice Member
There is no such format as DTS TrueHD. It's Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA. If the 4500 was showing Neural X then you were receiving a DTS HD-MA and the Denon was correctly mixing using Neural. The upmixing mode for Dolby TrueHD would have Dolby Surround showing on the screen.
Thanks gibbsy. You’re correct. The format was DTS HD-MA and denon was mixing it to Neural.
 

AVPup84

Novice Member
There is no such format as DTS TrueHD. It's Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA. If the 4500 was showing Neural X then you were receiving a DTS HD-MA and the Denon was correctly mixing using Neural. The upmixing mode for Dolby TrueHD would have Dolby Surround showing on the screen.
Thanks gibbsy. Will denon always upmix DTS HD MA 5.1 to Neural X by default To utilise all connected channels rather than playing it 5.1 using the the original format of the disc?
The reason I asked, the other day I played a disc with Dolby THD 5.1 and denon didn’t upmix to Dolby surround on the screen. Of course I can manually toggle through different modes but I tend to leave it as default.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Thanks gibbsy. Will denon always upmix DTS HD MA 5.1 to Neural X by default To utilise all connected channels rather than playing it 5.1 using the the original format of the disc?
The reason I asked, the other day I played a disc with Dolby THD 5.1 and denon didn’t upmix to Dolby surround on the screen. Of course I can manually toggle through different modes but I tend to leave it as default.
If you scroll through the audio options TrueHD and vanilla Dolby will upmix to Surround, the Denon should remember that for the next time. If not bring up the drop down menu and highlight Dolby + Surround.


Switching the sound mode
Press MOVIE, MUSIC or GAME to display a list of the sound modes that can be selected. Each time you press MOVIE, MUSIC or GAME, the sound mode changes.
While the list is displayed, you can also use
shirosankaku
shirosankaku-Reverse
to select a sound mode.
Try out various sound modes and enjoy sound mode in your favorite mode.

Please set the surround mode to Dolby Atmos/Surround when playing back Dolby Atmos encoded content. Dolby Atmos/Surround delivers the optimum playback experience from Blu-ray and streaming sources encoded with Dolby Atmos as well as channel based content. The default setting of this receiver is Dolby Atmos/Surround.

Bracket Open
Example
Bracket Close
When MOVIE is pressed
GUI Surround Auro X65

This unit provides not only sound modes that conform to the formats recorded on discs such as Dolby and DTS, but also extended types of modes that match your speaker configuration and “original sound modes” that create atmosphere of Rock Arena and Jazz Club, etc.
 

AVPup84

Novice Member
If you scroll through the audio options TrueHD and vanilla Dolby will upmix to Surround, the Denon should remember that for the next time. If not bring up the drop down menu and highlight Dolby + Surround.


Switching the sound mode
Press MOVIE, MUSIC or GAME to display a list of the sound modes that can be selected. Each time you press MOVIE, MUSIC or GAME, the sound mode changes.
While the list is displayed, you can also use
shirosankaku
shirosankaku-Reverse
to select a sound mode.
Try out various sound modes and enjoy sound mode in your favorite mode.

Please set the surround mode to Dolby Atmos/Surround when playing back Dolby Atmos encoded content. Dolby Atmos/Surround delivers the optimum playback experience from Blu-ray and streaming sources encoded with Dolby Atmos as well as channel based content. The default setting of this receiver is Dolby Atmos/Surround.

Bracket Open
Example
Bracket Close
When MOVIE is pressed
GUI Surround Auro X65

This unit provides not only sound modes that conform to the formats recorded on discs such as Dolby and DTS, but also extended types of modes that match your speaker configuration and “original sound modes” that create atmosphere of Rock Arena and Jazz Club, etc.
Thanks again. Very useful info. Do you know of any setting on the receiver that will always default to the original audio track on the content rather than remembering the last upmix setting?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Thanks again. Very useful info. Do you know of any setting on the receiver that will always default to the original audio track on the content rather than remembering the last upmix setting?
If you select the audio format that the audio was encoded with from the list of options then the receiver will once again revert to that option and not apply any upmixing to the source when you again use that source. The receiver retains the setting you last used for each and every source.

If you select the TrueHD audio then the receiver would priotise other formats such as DTS-JD MA or DD+ etc relative to that source whenever you use that source and will continue to do so until you select a different mode for that source.

It isn't just the upmixing options that will be listed and the receiver also shows the actual audio coming into the receiver. DElect that and the receiver should automatically always revert to the incoming audio relative to that source until you select a different mode for that source.
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
Thanks again. Very useful info. Do you know of any setting on the receiver that will always default to the original audio track on the content rather than remembering the last upmix setting?
On the right hand side of the remote you will see a yellow button. The default for this button is 'Auto Surround Playback'. This will ensure that the receiver recognises the correct audio format coming into the receiver and will automatically select that format for decoding. If you play a DTS HD-MA then that will be the default. Dolby TrueHD will likewise be recognised and played. You don't have to do anything other than making sure the Auto is selected.

On a 6500 remote the yellow button is also prefixed as 'Pure'. There are three setting on it. Pure, Pure Direct and Auto.


Auto surround playback
This mode detects the type of input digital signal, and automatically selects the corresponding mode for playback.
Perform stereo playback when the input signal is PCM. When the input signal is Dolby Digital or DTS, the music is played back according to the respective channel number.
Press PURE to select “Auto”.
Auto surround playback begins.
 

quatter

Active Member
I know there are no stupid questions....but there are exceptions to every rule and this may be it. Having moved rear Dali Altecos, I ran Audyssey and half way through i realised the switches on the Dalis were in the up position when I wanted them in the down. Do I really need to rerun Audyssey or am I being a little over the top. I was going to say anal but thought the swear filter might kick in!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
On the right hand side of the remote you will see a yellow button. The default for this button is 'Auto Surround Playback'. This will ensure that the receiver recognises the correct audio format coming into the receiver and will automatically select that format for decoding. If you play a DTS HD-MA then that will be the default. Dolby TrueHD will likewise be recognised and played. You don't have to do anything other than making sure the Auto is selected.

On a 6500 remote the yellow button is also prefixed as 'Pure'. There are three setting on it. Pure, Pure Direct and Auto.


Auto surround playback
This mode detects the type of input digital signal, and automatically selects the corresponding mode for playback.
Perform stereo playback when the input signal is PCM. When the input signal is Dolby Digital or DTS, the music is played back according to the respective channel number.
Press PURE to select “Auto”.
Auto surround playback begins.


The AUTO SURROUND PLAYBACK feature doesn't actually cause the receiver to revert to the discrete format though and simply causes the receiver to automatically use the most appropriate upmixing mode associated with that format. It would for example result in Dolby Surround being automatically engaged relative to Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus and TrueHD encoded audio and would only be bypassed if the incoming source is Atmos in nature. The same is true relative to DTS sources whereby the receiver would automatically revert to Neural:X upmixing unless the audio is DTS:X in nature.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
I know there are no stupid questions....but there are exceptions to every rule and this may be it. Having moved rear Dali Altecos, I ran Audyssey and half way through i realised the switches on the Dalis were in the up position when I wanted them in the down. Do I really need to rerun Audyssey or am I being a little over the top. I was going to say anal but thought the swear filter might kick in!
I'd suggest rerunning the dalibration after changing the switch. THe manner in which the crossovers are applied is different so the results associated with a calibration may also alter relative to the position that the switch is set to.


• In the ‘Up’ position, the audio signal is optimised for listening at a position reached in a line perpendicular to the front of the speaker. This setting is used when the sound must travel to a point the speaker is aimed at, or if reflected off the ceiling when generating height information.

• In the ‘Down’ position, the audio signal is optimised for listening at a position reached at an angle of about 25 degrees downwards from the tweeter across the woofer. This setting is used when the sound must travel to a point very close to the speaker position.


I'd therefore suggest the settings can effect the receiver's distance configurations and phase/timing?
 
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AVPup84

Novice Member
On the right hand side of the remote you will see a yellow button. The default for this button is 'Auto Surround Playback'. This will ensure that the receiver recognises the correct audio format coming into the receiver and will automatically select that format for decoding. If you play a DTS HD-MA then that will be the default. Dolby TrueHD will likewise be recognised and played. You don't have to do anything other than making sure the Auto is selected.

On a 6500 remote the yellow button is also prefixed as 'Pure'. There are three setting on it. Pure, Pure Direct and Auto.


Auto surround playback
This mode detects the type of input digital signal, and automatically selects the corresponding mode for playback.
Perform stereo playback when the input signal is PCM. When the input signal is Dolby Digital or DTS, the music is played back according to the respective channel number.
Press PURE to select “Auto”.
Auto surround playback begins.
Thanks. For example if I watch YouTube content and press the movie button on the remote to select surround mode for example and then switch the source to bluray, will that source remember the audio format I selected for YouTube by pressing the movie button or revert to last audio format used for bluray playback? I’m thinking if I press pure button to select Auto mode when I next watch a bluray, and then change to a different source I.e TV audio for YouTube etc, and press the movie button to select a upmix format and then go back to bluray input, will that still remember the AutoMode?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Thanks. For example if I watch YouTube content and press the movie button on the remote to select surround mode for example and then switch the source to bluray, will that source remember the audio format I selected for YouTube by pressing the movie button or revert to last audio format used for bluray playback? I’m thinking if I press pure button to select Auto mode when I next watch a bluray, and then change to a different source I.e TV audio for YouTube etc, and press the movie button to select a upmix format and then go back to bluray input, will that still remember the AutoMode?
If you watch a blu ray and it has a DTS HD-MA soundtrack then the Denon will automatically select that format and decode it and output DTS Neural X. If you then go to the TV and the TV is broadcasting in Dolby Digital Plus then that is what automatically is decoded, this time however the format will be DD+ + Surround. So whatever sound format is being sent to the Denon they all will be automatically decoded.

DTS, DTS HD-MA, DTS X becomes DTS + Neural, DTS HD + Neutral, DTS X.
DD, DD+, Dolby TrueHD, Atmos becomes DD + Surround, DD+ + Surround, TrueHD + Surround or Atmos. (Dolby Stereo will also become DD + Surround).
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
I have just picked up a Denon 4500 to upgrade my Onkyo pre/power amp set up driving my Mk speakers the set up was
Onkyo processor Pr-sc5509
Onkyo PA-mc5500 9 channel amp
3 Mk150 in wall
2 MK st150 rears
4 Mk Iw85 in the ceiling
I still have the Onkyos what is anyones thoughts on using the onkyo amp to drive the speakers with the Denon doing the switching and processing or should I keep the Denon as a one box solution
Thanks
Normally it is considered a better option to run a PA along with an AVR as I am sure you are aware. I feel that the Onkyo PA would offer some benefits as it has a more output and should give more power over all nine channels compared to the Denon due to a bigger power supply with toroidal transformers.

The Denon is a decent avr, I bought one of these myself at Xmas to use in my living room setup. However the MK's do like some power up em and if you listen at high volumes of -10db to ref you will need some extra amplification. The Old Onk will certainly be better than the Denon on its own.

It may be an alternative though to sell the Onkyo kit and get a newer PA like a 7 channel Iota and use that for 7 channels and 2 of the Denon's amp channels for the ceiling speakers.

 

AVPup84

Novice Member
If you watch a blu ray and it has a DTS HD-MA soundtrack then the Denon will automatically select that format and decode it and output DTS Neural X. If you then go to the TV and the TV is broadcasting in Dolby Digital Plus then that is what automatically is decoded, this time however the format will be DD+ + Surround. So whatever sound format is being sent to the Denon they all will be automatically decoded.

DTS, DTS HD-MA, DTS X becomes DTS + Neural, DTS HD + Neutral, DTS X.
DD, DD+, Dolby TrueHD, Atmos becomes DD + Surround, DD+ + Surround, TrueHD + Surround or Atmos. (Dolby Stereo will also become DD + Surround).
Even if I Select auto mode by pressing the yellow pure button on remote, will denon upmix to DTS HD MA 5.1 to DTS Neural X? Thought the auto mode will play as per the soundtrack format on the disc without applying Neural?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Even if I Select auto mode by pressing the yellow pure button on remote, will denon upmix to DTS HD MA 5.1 to DTS Neural X? Thought the auto mode will play as per the soundtrack format on the disc without applying Neural?
Auto will upmix. Pure, or Pure Direct will give the sountrack as is. Leave on Auto. The only time when Pure or Pure Direct is best used is if you use the Denon for stereo music. If you do use it for stereo music then the because Pure be-passes the bass control the sub will not be used.

To check what is being used then press the info button on the remote. For a full display of incoming and outgoing signals and all speakers being used then go to Set Up>General>Audio. This will bring up the display on the TV screen.
 

AVPup84

Novice Member
Auto will upmix. Pure, or Pure Direct will give the sountrack as is. Leave on Auto. The only time when Pure or Pure Direct is best used is if you use the Denon for stereo music. If you do use it for stereo music then the because Pure be-passes the bass control the sub will not be used.

To check what is being used then press the info button on the remote. For a full display of incoming and outgoing signals and all speakers being used then go to Set Up>General>Audio. This will bring up the display on the TV screen.
Thanks very good info this.
 

tomdanscar

Active Member
Normally it is considered a better option to run a PA along with an AVR as I am sure you are aware. I feel that the Onkyo PA would offer some benefits as it has a more output and should give more power over all nine channels compared to the Denon due to a bigger power supply with toroidal transformers.

The Denon is a decent avr, I bought one of these myself at Xmas to use in my living room setup. However the MK's do like some power up em and if you listen at high volumes of -10db to ref you will need some extra amplification. The Old Onk will certainly be better than the Denon on its own.

It may be an alternative though to sell the Onkyo kit and get a newer PA like a 7 channel Iota and use that for 7 channels and 2 of the Denon's amp channels for the ceiling speakers.

Thanks for that I'm going to hook the power amp and see how it is
 

Noahdavid1984

Active Member
Just bought this receiver today upgrading from a Pioneer VSX-933.
I’m hoping once calibrated it sounds good for the money paid and a worthy upgrade over the pioneer.
I’ve got a good living / cinema room with atmos (ceiling speakers) 5.1.2 so this was the last piece of the puzzle with a decent av receiver.

Managed to get it almost half price due to the newer models but I’m excited to get this tomorrow
 

Noahdavid1984

Active Member
Also, question for the guys that have this already. I’m using anti-mode at the moment. With this new receiver will I still need to use anti mode or will the MultEQ XT32 do a better job?
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
I think you will be pleased with the 4500 it should be a step up from the Pioneer, the AudyXT32 room eq is much better than what I remember the MCACC to be from a while back.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Try it without anti mode first but you can also use anti mode as well if you want.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Does anyone else use anti mode in line with this?
There's techbically no requirement to have to implement the Antimode, but there's also no harm caused by using it either. Some suggest it is surplus to requirements while others suggest it makes a difference. The best way to determine your point of view is to try it for yourself. You should try the setup both with and without it and chosse which you prefer.

There are some points worth mentioning though. Audyssey suggest that you run the Audyssey calibration last and after running and applying third party EQ adjustments, but you may also want to compare this setup to one whereby the Antimode's adjustments are applied after running the Audyssey xalibration? So you'd not only want to compare the results stained with and without the antimode, but also with it applied both prior to and post Audtssey.


Note that there's already an existing thread discussing this here:
 
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