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Denon AVR-X4300H Owners Thread

afrancois

Standard Member
'm sorry to report that my order for a second hand 4300H has been canceled by Amazon.
After some careful research, I'm now in the market for a new 3600H. This seems to perfectly cover my needs. At the same time I would like to order a Adam active speaker set + sub woofer for the front channels. The set consists of two Adam A5X + one Adam SUB 7. The sub and speakers can be tightly integrated by setting the crossover point in the sub. The speakers are in this case connected to the sub and the receiver would send the front channel signals to the sub. This is quite interesting because I could easily set the crossover point with the sub's remote.
This means that I would not use the sub channels of the receiver. Can I send the full signal to the front speaker outputs (front + sub signal to front only)?
 

kikiso

Active Member
Bummer, why was it cancelled? Anyway, the 3600H seems pretty good too so probably not a major issue.

On the question about the speakers, I think the issue you'll have with connecting the sub to the L+R speakers is that the sub will not receive the LFE channels when you've got LFE content. There's a brilliant explanation by one of the mods that I think gives an explanation of LFE and subs on the Anthem MRX520 forum at Anthem MRX 520 / 720 / 1120 Series Owners

It's toward the bottom to the page and the mod is gibbsy. I'm monitoring the forum because the MRX720 would be my next upgrade once I've convinced myself the extra investment is worth it. Regardless of the model etc, the explanation about LFE is really good.
 

afrancois

Standard Member
Bummer, why was it cancelled? Anyway, the 3600H seems pretty good too so probably not a major issue.

On the question about the speakers, I think the issue you'll have with connecting the sub to the L+R speakers is that the sub will not receive the LFE channels when you've got LFE content. There's a brilliant explanation by one of the mods that I think gives an explanation of LFE and subs on the Anthem MRX520 forum at Anthem MRX 520 / 720 / 1120 Series Owners

It's toward the bottom to the page and the mod is gibbsy. I'm monitoring the forum because the MRX720 would be my next upgrade once I've convinced myself the extra investment is worth it. Regardless of the model etc, the explanation about LFE is really good.
No reason given for the canceling.
I stumbled on an interesting article The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound - HomeTheaterHifi.com
Especially this part.
“On the flip side, you don’t need a subwoofer to hear the content of the LFE track. If your mains are of substantial mettle, and you don’t have a sub, bass management can usually re-route the LFE to your fronts.”
 

kikiso

Active Member
I've read it, and in the case of the 4300H you can send the LFE to the main speakers so this looks like it could work. This is done in the speaker setup, sub-option BASS and set to LFE+MAIN. I assume the 3600H has the same option. I've had a quick look at the spec of the ADAMs and they look good. Perhaps either gibes or someone else can help here....
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I've read it, and in the case of the 4300H you can send the LFE to the main speakers so this looks like it could work. This is done in the speaker setup, sub-option BASS and set to LFE+MAIN. I assume the 3600H has the same option. I've had a quick look at the spec of the ADAMs and they look good. Perhaps either gibes or someone else can help here....
Using LFE+Main can and often does lead to a boomy bass and is best avoided. Very few speakers can get anywhere near as deep as a sub unless you want to spend tens of thousands of pounds. The LFE will to some part get downmixed if not using a sub and telling the receiver that one is not connected. However the speakers internal crossover will disregard signals below that cut off, for safety sake, so the majority of the LFE effects will be lost.

You can connect a sub directly to the amp via the front left and right binding posts via a high level input. Tricky to get right and is very good for music as it underpins the audio, REL are masters at this and apart from their new HT Series all are designed for such input.

If you sub doesn't have a dedicated LFE input then use the RCA from LFE on the receiver to the left channel input on the receiver possibly. You will have to check this with your particular sub model.
 

afrancois

Standard Member
Using LFE+Main can and often does lead to a boomy bass and is best avoided. Very few speakers can get anywhere near as deep as a sub unless you want to spend tens of thousands of pounds. The LFE will to some part get downmixed if not using a sub and telling the receiver that one is not connected. However the speakers internal crossover will disregard signals below that cut off, for safety sake, so the majority of the LFE effects will be lost.

You can connect a sub directly to the amp via the front left and right binding posts via a high level input. Tricky to get right and is very good for music as it underpins the audio, REL are masters at this and apart from their new HT Series all are designed for such input.

If you sub doesn't have a dedicated LFE input then use the RCA from LFE on the receiver to the left channel input on the receiver possibly. You will have to check this with your particular sub model.
That's the nice thing of the Adam configuration. It is a combination of front speakers and sub woofer tightly integrated. It handles the low pass and high pass. It's like front speakers that can go real deep
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
It is an acknowledged fact that duplicating the same lower frequency output via both the sub and the main speakers invariably results in bass boom issues. THX has done extensive testing and research relative to this and Audyssey also advise against engaging settings such as LFE + MAIN or DOUBLE BASS.

The high pass is doing nothing to improve anything. All you are doing is conveying full tange audio to the both the sub and your your passive speakers. This fails to benefit the upper range performance as would be the case associated with designating the passive speakers as being SMALL, setting a crossover for them no lower than 80Hz and only outputting the frequencies at and below the crossover to the sub in association with the discrete LFE channel if and when present.

By the way, true full range speakers will cost you in excess of £10,000. Even if you had such speakers, you'd still be advised to designate them as being small and to use an 80Hz crossover.
 

afrancois

Standard Member
It is an acknowledged fact that duplicating the same lower frequency output via both the sub and the main speakers invariably results in bass boom issues. THX has done extensive testing and research relative to this and Audyssey also advise against engaging settings such as LFE + MAIN or DOUBLE BASS.

The high pass is doing nothing to improve anything. All you are doing is conveying full tange audio to the both the sub and your your passive speakers. This fails to benefit the upper range performance as would be the case associated with designating the passive speakers as being SMALL, setting a crossover for them no lower than 80Hz and only outputting the frequencies at and below the crossover to the sub in association with the discrete LFE channel if and when present.

By the way, true full range speakers will cost you in excess of £10,000. Even if you had such speakers, you'd still be advised to designate them as being small and to use an 80Hz crossover.
Hello please take a look at the Adam A5X and Sub 8. Both are active and none of the low pass gets into the main active speakers and visa versa, so I guess that your valid remarks do not apply to the setup I envision. I'm well aware that even my Focal Sopra 2 in my two channel setup are not capable of really full range, that's why I have sub woofers. But that system will not be part of my multi channel setup.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The speaker size configurations and the receiver's associated crossovers still apply to that receiver's pre outs. The same bass management ideology is still applicable to your active main speakers and speaker siz as well as crossovers can still be employed.

No idea as to what it is that you think you are gaining by sending full range audio to your speakers be they active or passive? Do they incorporate low frequency woofers with a diameter in excess of 15"? If no, then they are not full range.
 

afrancois

Standard Member
Perhaps there's nothing to gain, I just want to explore all options. What seems to be handy is that you can change the crossover of Adam the sub and mains with a remote. Gives some flexibility (perhaps). My aim is not to go to the absolute minimum of 20 Hz! I'm a 2 channel purist, not an AV purist :)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Perhaps there's nothing to gain, I just want to explore all options. What seems to be handy is that you can change the crossover of Adam the sub and mains with a remote. Gives some flexibility (perhaps). My aim is not to go to the absolute minimum of 20 Hz! I'm a 2 channel purist, not an AV purist :)

You can adjust the AV receiver's bass management via the receiver's remote so unsure as to what you've gained?
 
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