Denon AVR-2310 or Yamaha RX-V3900

Jon Weaver

Distinguished Member
I have just placed an order for my new AV system comprising of Monitor Audio RX speakers and a Denon AVR-2310

But currently, its on hold due to a potential 'delay' problem on the Denon and I am waiting on feedback from the users and Denon to confirm whether this is an issue.

This got me looking into alternatives and whilst I originally balked at the idea of spending over a grand on an Amp, now I have got used to it and if I am honest, I am now looking at the AVR-2310 as inferior.

But to be honest, the 2310 does everything I want.. And it has an extra HDMI input....

Has anyone been able to compare the two? Does anyone have any good reasons why I should spend the extra £400 on the Yamaha?

Jon
 

Zorba_8

Active Member
Hi John

I think the consensus will be that if you have the money then go for the 3900.

I was in pretty much the same position as you ( i have RS and not RX speakers though) and ended up going for the 3900.

I couldn't tell you about all the features your £400 will get you, but look at the weight difference between the two models, the power, internet radio (if that's your thing), connectivity, USB input.

I have found that it's money well spent, but just be patient with integrating into your system as you'll need a good couple days of listening to get the sound you want, but the clever 6 memory sound facility is a must have for amps of this range.

The finish is top notch, and the metal flap of the front glides down and covers all the unsightly buttons and inputs when not in use.

Try and get a demo of the two. You have speakers that are current and both amps are readily available too.

I'm sure the more learned and knowledgable members will have some points for you to consider outside of mine. :smashin:
 
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george_t

Standard Member
If you wanted to keep the budget to under £1000 and like the Yamaha sound is it worth a look at the RX-V2065?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If you wanted to keep the budget to under £1000 and like the Yamaha sound is it worth a look at the RX-V2065?

I think the RXV1900 and the RXV2065 are more comparable to the Denon AVR2310 than the more substantial RXV3900. I think it unfare and unbalanced to try to compare the AVR2310 and the RXV3900. The RXV3900 is the winner, but only because it is an amplifier in a higher class than the AVR2310. The AVR3310 would be a more comparable amplifier.
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
This would be my way of looking at the 2065/3900 choice.

The 3900 is a well proven amp, with good reviews and good user feedback. It is too early to say wheather this will be the case with the 2065, and based on the cut-backs on the lower x65 series, it would probably be pertinant to wait for such reviews, and more importantly, user feedback. As far as I'm aware, the 2065 still has the limited assignability of the other X65 amps, and fewer non HDMI connections than the 3900, which has a lot.

The price difference is about £130, given that it is a step up the range, quality wise, from the 2065 in Yamahas pecking order, if I had the extra £130, it would be no contest --- the 3900 all the way. Just my opinion.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
This would be my way of looking at the 2065/3900 choice.

The 3900 is a well proven amp, with good reviews and good user feedback. It is too early to say wheather this will be the case with the 2065, and based on the cut-backs on the lower x65 series, it would probably be pertinant to wait for such reviews, and more importantly, user feedback. As far as I'm aware, the 2065 still has the limited assignability of the other X65 amps, and fewer non HDMI connections than the 3900, which has a lot.

The price difference is about £130, given that it is a step up the range, quality wise, from the 2065 in Yamahas pecking order, if I had the extra £130, it would be no contest --- the 3900 all the way. Just my opinion.

Do you realise that the OP is comparing the Denon AVR2310 with the Yamaha RXV3900?:hiya:
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
Do you realise that the OP is comparing the Denon AVR2310 with the Yamaha RXV3900?:hiya:

I do :D but due to the possible lag issues on the 2310 (see the 2310 users thread), the OP is looking at Yamahas and with the 1900s gone, the 3900 was the option he was considering. Wheather he wasn't aware of the 2065, or chose to ignore it, I don't know.

george_t brought the 2065 up as an option, so I just posted my thoughts on a comparison between that and the 3900
 

yoman228

Active Member
I recently bought the RX6av and Denon 2310, feeling the amp is a little under power and doesn't shows enough details.

but I only had it for my second day and had the volume to -0db due to the evening play time. Will give a try this weekend with the volume fully up with my newly arrived BK XXL400.

and hope the sounds will get better when the speaker and amp is fully run in.
 

Jon Weaver

Distinguished Member
Thanks all.. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the Yamaha. It just looks meatier and whist its well over my budget, its not like I can't afford it.. The fact that its 50% heavier than the Denon speaks volumes and its certainly more powerful..

Infact, i am not sure why I set myself such a low budget as my last upgrade was 10 years ago and its about time I invested a bit of cash to bring my system up to date.... I think my worry is that if I start looking the £1000+ amps, then have I spent enough on speakers (RX6, RX-CLR and RX-FX).

I do realise that the 2310 and 3900 are completely different beasts.. But looking at the 3310 it doens't appear to have much more than the 2310 to justify the cost (And will probably suffer the same 'lag' issue (Assuming this turns out to be a real problem).. Where as the Yamaha just appears to be i a different league.

I am now starting to hope that the Denon issue IS real, then I will be forced to change my mind, and the only thing I would consider right now is the RX-V3900!

Jon

Edit:.. And yes.. I chose to ignore the 2065, only because its in short supply and unproven. In the short term its unlikely that I am going to see any reviews of the 2065 in the timescales that I am working too.. Plus.. The thing I hear consistently about the x65 series is that they have cut costs which i don't like to hear.
 
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yoman228

Active Member
I do realise that the 2310 and 3900 are completely different beasts.. But looking at the 3310 it doens't appear to have much more than the 2310 to justify the cost (And will probably suffer the same 'lag' issue (Assuming this turns out to be a real problem).. Where as the Yamaha just appears to be i a different league.

I am now starting to hope that the Denon issue IS real, then I will be forced to change my mind, and the only thing I would consider right now is the RX-V3900!

That the only reason of why I did not go for the 3310 as they just can't justifity the extra £350. a Shame I did not look at the RX-V3900 at the time when every one was just talking about the V1900 is discountinued.

and You are :devil:, if the Denon issue IS real when I start playing the GT5 in PS3, I may have to upgrade my amp. wounder how much I can sell my 2310 in 5 month time without the box?

I do think my RX speaker just deserved a amp for 1k+.....
 

Jon Weaver

Distinguished Member
That the only reason of why I did not go for the 3310 as they just can't justifity the extra £350. a Shame I did not look at the RX-V3900 at the time when every one was just talking about the V1900 is discountinued.

and You are :devil:, if the Denon issue IS real when I start playing the GT5 in PS3, I may have to upgrade my amp. wounder how much I can sell my 2310 in 5 month time without the box?

I do think my RX speaker just deserved a amp for 1k+.....

I am getting very close to changing my order.... I did want something a bit 'better' than the 2310, but I didn't think the 3310 offered much.

I don't want Onyko as I have read they are not a great match for the Monitor Audio.. I don't want Pioneer.. So the only choice was/is Yamaha

But I ruled that out as the Z range were too expensive and the 1065 was the highest in the RX-V range....

However, I didn't spot the 3900 until now and I just wonder if its exactly what I need.. I was looking to spend £800-£900, so the £1079 price tag isn't THAT much higher.. And when you look at the spec, on paper, the 3900 is a beast compared to the 2310....

But I do like the look of the 2310.. And the features.. And of course the price... But I have to admit to being tempted...

I just wish that Denon would confirm whether this 'lag' thing is an issue or not and if it is why it only affects some people and how you solve it, atleast then I will know!

Jon
 

yoman228

Active Member
I was told that the What hi fi shows in the manchester, the MA RX speaker is paired with a Onkyo amp (not confirmed). It could make sense as the RX speaker is a lot smoother then the RS Speaker. Wounder anyone have demo the RX6 with the Onkyo amp??
 
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Zorba_8

Active Member
But I do like the look of the 2310.. And the features.. And of course the price... But I have to admit to being tempted...

Jon

You wait until you see the 3900 in the flesh! I feel your pain as I was torn between to two and had to find enough reasons to justify upper my AVR from a circa £850 product to a £1,100 amp, but on reflection, I'm sure the £250 had been well spent. If it's any help, from my research i was told that the 2008 crop of amps out outperformed the 2009 models. A year of cut backs perhaps in line with the economic client...who knows?

Can you demo as there (including me) are more people who buy on recommendation rather than from a demo. Would be interesting to read what you thought? You may well be surprised and not hear any difference between the two and save yourself 300 notes?

Just my mind in words :D
 

Andrew K

Banned
I was told that the What hi fi shows in the manchester, the MA RX speaker is paired with a Onkyo amp (not confirmed). It could make sense as the RX speaker is a lot smoother then the RS Speaker. Wounder anyone have demo the RX6 with the Onkyo amp??

It's confirmed. Monitor Audio and Onkyo are sharing facilities at the Manchester Show. They have attended the Manchester Show together previously and have demo'd their equipment together on numerous times in the past. This is nothing to do with the RX range being smoother than the RS range but simply down to the fact Monitor Audio and Onkyo have no aversion to pairing their products together.
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
It's confirmed. Monitor Audio and Onkyo are sharing facilities at the Manchester Show. They have attended the Manchester Show together previously and have demo'd their equipment together on numerous times in the past. This is nothing to do with the RX range being smoother than the RS range but simply down to the fact Monitor Audio and Onkyo have no aversion to pairing their products together.

I do find this very interesting.

Am I right in thinking that it will be the very expensive range costing 2K+ (or more)? And do therse have a less bright sound than the likes of the 607, 707 and 807?
 

Jon Weaver

Distinguished Member
Can you demo as there (including me) are more people who buy on recommendation rather than from a demo. Would be interesting to read what you thought? You may well be surprised and not hear any difference between the two and save yourself 300 notes?

Just my mind in words :D

Demo is almost impossible.. I live in the deepest, darkest South Wales, where they have only just heard of Pro Logic it seems...

But to be honest, I know NOTHING about about music/audio in terms of 'sound'.. I was dragged around the WhatHifi show by an obsessive friend a few years back and frankly couldn't tell the difference between the 'good' and 'great'. A lot of my problem was spending 8 hours per day in a car (working) with 3 x 500W Kenwood amplifiers blowing my brains out for 6 years.. My hearing is shot now.. I can't hear anything above 9K!

So everything I do is done by recommendation alone.. I know and can tell the difference between good and bad.. But as to whether sounds good, really good or amazing is lost on me!

All I care about is that it can drive the speakers.. And sounds 'powerful' (rather than loud).

And with regards to 'justifying the cost'.. The 2310 currently sells for £699.. At first this was a special by some suppliers, but now this is everyone.. In contrast the 3900 is £1079 (hopefully cheaper if I can talk someone into giving me a discount for NOT taking 'installation'), so thats a different of £380 which is more than 50% higher than the 2310... But I am starting to think that the difference is worth it...

Jon
 
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Zorba_8

Active Member
I'm guessing that you'll end up ordering the 3900! :devil:

At least you know that you won't regret is, just make sure you check the dimensions first to make sure it will fit in your rack or wherever you decide to make it its home. Mine is sat quite snug as it is rather large and does get quite warm (like any other AVR including the Denon) so make sure you have plenty of space for ventilation.

Sorry if I sound like I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but best to be safe than sorry! :smashin:
 

Andrew K

Banned
I do find this very interesting.

Am I right in thinking that it will be the very expensive range costing 2K+ (or more)? And do therse have a less bright sound than the likes of the 607, 707 and 807?

The NR5007 will be paired with the Silver RX speakers at the top end but they will also be pairing the SR607 with the Radius range at the lower end.
 

Jon Weaver

Distinguished Member
I'm guessing that you'll end up ordering the 3900! :devil:

At least you know that you won't regret is, just make sure you check the dimensions first to make sure it will fit in your rack or wherever you decide to make it its home. Mine is sat quite snug as it is rather large and does get quite warm (like any other AVR including the Denon) so make sure you have plenty of space for ventilation.

Sorry if I sound like I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but best to be safe than sorry! :smashin:

It is a good point.. In what way is it 'snug'? I was worried about height, but I never thought about the depth.. I think I had better make some measurements tonight.

Jon

Edit.. I guess you mean 'deep'.. Ahh.. This might be a problem.. Its 439mm thats HUGE... The Denon only 377mm so this might be a problem.. I never thought of checking depth.

Fortunately, its mounted on a glass rack designed to take a CRT, so its quite deep.. But its mounted at an angle, so the left side (Where the amp is) is almost touching the wall.

But this gets me thinking.why do I have it on the left side, where its impossible to get to the back.. Why not the right.. On the right side, I have about 2 foot of room behind the rack, so it will easily fit.. Looks like I need to swap everything around when I get my new kit..
 
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Zorba_8

Active Member
It is a good point.. In what way is it 'snug'? I was worried about height, but I never thought about the depth.. I think I had better make some measurements tonight.

Jon

Edit.. I guess you mean 'deep'.. Ahh.. This might be a problem.. Its 439mm thats HUGE... The Denon only 377mm so this might be a problem.. I never thought of checking depth.

Fortunately, its mounted on a glass rack designed to take a CRT, so its quite deep.. But its mounted at an angle, so the left side (Where the amp is) is almost touching the wall.

But this gets me thinking.why do I have it on the left side, where its impossible to get to the back.. Why not the right.. On the right side, I have about 2 foot of room behind the rack, so it will easily fit.. Looks like I need to swap everything around when I get my new kit..

Moving all your kit out always provides an opportunity to have a good dust and check that the terminations on your speakers are OK and re crimp if not.

With regards to the size, I guess it's just all those innards have to go somewhere!
 

Jon Weaver

Distinguished Member
Moving all your kit out always provides an opportunity to have a good dust and check that the terminations on your speakers are OK and re crimp if not.

With regards to the size, I guess it's just all those innards have to go somewhere!

I have already removed my CD player as I don't use it and now I am planning that when my amp/speakers are delivered, I am going to strip EVERYTHING out and start all over again.

I have loads of cable at the back which are now redundant, so this will give me chance to start from scratch.

Jon
 
A

AriGold77

Guest
Hi John,

I had a chance to demo the 3900 tonight at my local HiFi shop with RX speakers with my friend, and compate it with the 2310 and Marantz's 6004.

Having read everything on the forums before, I was 99% convinced when I walked into the store that it was 3900 all the way. Yammy is clearly a forum favourite, especially when paired with the bright sounding RX.

If you spend most of your time with movies, either one will blow you away. So as soon as they got a pass in there, we put on the 3900 as the 'sure winner' and listened quiet a bit to various music. It was allright, I expected nothing less from this great piece of equipment.

When we switched to the 2310, we were already making dinner plans, as we just wanted to tick the box so we can be assured that we buy the best, that is the 3900. So we just plugged the 2310, switched power on, selected track 3, clicked play, and suddenly.. wonnderful things happened: the music came to life righ there in the room, as the RX speakers had a (much) better soundstage than anytime before. Wow, you cannot imagine how surprised I was! :)

Finally we came to the Marantz 6004, with great expectations but no prejudices anymore. What can I say, it's a great amp, but don't hold your breath, as it is perhaps too bright for the RX (just like the Onkyos and Pioneers). It seems to me that bright speakers paired with bright amps will give you a kinda super bright sterile sound. It's not easy to explain, but just imagine a tremble rich lifestyle speaker, with better composition and quality. My gf is a novice in AV, so forginve her but she just said 'it sounds like a box' :D

If sound quality is your first and foremost priority, to my ears Denon does the better job with the RX (according to my gf it looks more stylish as well) Haven't had a chance to examine the features, but I expec the Yammy will be better equipped on the features front.

Anyways that's what I can share from a first hand demo. experience. I am sure however the 2310 will be light on the equipment front, but if you could shed some light on what I am likely to miss on my 2310, that would be great.

Whichever you choose, these are all great amps. Just make sure you pair the speakers with the sub well, so that you don't miss a good crossover, which is not always the case with so called 'made to pair' subs on the contrary!

Good luck, and enjoy:hiya:
 
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Passingbat

Distinguished Member
Whichever you choose, these are all great amps. Just make sure you pair the speakers with the sub well, so that you don't miss a good crossover, which is not always the case with so called 'made to pair' subs on the contrary!
:hiya: Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Out of interest, what sub were you using to do the test?

As the RX series are reported to produce a smoother sound thatn the RSs they replaced, I wonder what difference that has made to the pairings. And also, strange results regarding the Marantz as they are known as warm amps, with a greater degree of warmth than Yamaha/Denon. Just goes to show how important demoing is.

BTW Did they run the amps setup, each time they swapped them? Running setup, which includes equalisation makes a massive difference to the sound produced from any amp speaker combo. That could be an important factor to consider.
 
A

AriGold77

Guest
Sure, no probs mate:smashin: I know how frustrating these choices are, as we all hear and value things differently. And of course, the industry is putting it's spin on the PR everywhere... just listen and enjoy the hype arond the X brand I am not going to menton now. You will know what I mean if you demo some popular £800 speakers on your own, as I know at least one that sounds "ish-ish";)

During my dozens of DEMOS, I followed the following cherry-picking logic, in the order of importance that I expected from each component to deliver

1, Choose good speakers first, with matching centre. I demoed about 8-10 pairs of speakers, with MA coming out on the top, but that's for my taste. To me this is the best in my budget, although it is true that in case of the RS and RX, you may need to overdrive the centre for a good lively dialogue, which is a no brainer for most amps -> tick in the box.

2, Pick the rears, this should be relatively easi(er) at least it was for me, as 5.1

3, Find a good sub, that will work well with your speakers. This is a tricky one, as most floorstanders in this range will sound excellent and detailed above 100 or so, whereas most subs often deliver best in the 25-75 range, often leaving you with a crossover gap to fill with good settings, and paring of speakers (look at the thousands of thread on this topic, and you'll see what I mean) It took me more than a few weekends, and plenty of evenings to demo at least 10 subs, and I can tell you form experience that for movies 8 out of 10 will do a great job (look at the RELs for budget, or the SVS for high end, but for gods sake, avoid MA's RSW12 uness you are really good in overing it up with a good amp. 8 out of 10 will sound fine for compressed pop (stuff you hear in music clubs, loud and overdriven) so if that's your thing, you'll get good mid level subs no probs. However, if you're an audiophile and enjoy quality acoustic music, this is where it really matters. For these recordings, you will quicly hear the limitations in the lower-mid range (and don't think sthng over-sophisticated, a simple mainstream acoutsic guitar recording will often go into the crossover range, as well as good quality rock). You will quickly hear that it is not just a 'barely noticeable' for 'audiophiles' but the gap sometimes can be really striking. I actually found only 2 out of 10 which I found satisfactory for my type of music, and only 1 within my budget

4, Find your amp. You're perfectly right, a good pro can fiddle around with equalisation (esp if he knows his stuff) in seconds to make a brighter amp sound smoother, and vice versa. So if you know the amp has good EQ features, and works well (in in the £500+ range this can be taken for granted) then simply use direct feed and see what's what (it's very much like carl zeiss versus canon lenses in a digital camera: you can photoshop any to your tastes, but the basic tones will nevertheless be given by the lenses)
To my liking, the Denon and Marantz sounded very close, ie. the difference amongst these brands is barely noticeable. But with RX speakers, if I was pushed to choose, I'd go for the Denon due to soundstage which the RX needs. But you won't make a mistake with the Yammy either, it will also sound great.

5, Choose your blue-ray player. This is perhaps the last one to pick, as it is unlikely to ruin your experience, unless you are really detailed and wish to see Arnold's growing chest hair in slow motion in the opening scene of T2 :rotfl: Yes it's possible, as it was pointed out to me during one of the demos!

Good luck, and enjoy
Clap, clap!:hiya:
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
4, Find your amp. You're perfectly right, a good pro can fiddle around with equalisation (esp if he knows his stuff) in seconds to make a brighter amp sound smoother, and vice versa. So if you know the amp has good EQ features, and works well (in in the £500+ range this can be taken for granted) then simply use direct feed and see what's what (it's very much like carl zeiss versus canon lenses in a digital camera: you can photoshop any to your tastes, but the basic tones will nevertheless be given by the lenses)
:


So you're saying that setup, including equalisation wasn't run with each amp when you switched?

I know for a fact that it makes a massive difference with the RS speakers and Yamaha amps.
 

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