DENON AVR-2105, shall i bi wire?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Antz Dj, May 1, 2007.

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  1. Antz Dj

    Antz Dj
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    :hiya: I just took a big step into Home theatre, going from a crap 51" toshiba projection tv (picture quality good at all angles before you say anything!. Was a good tv:smashin: ) and a currys special philips amp and little surround sound speakers and sub, to buying a 50" hd plasma, bowers & wilkins front and backs, and a denon avr-2105 amp off ebay! (all im after now is a middle and a sub!) What i want to know is shall i bi wire my bowers front speakers? And what the difference is exactly? Why should i do it and how do i benifit from it? Shall i add another front pair of speakers? The previous owner of the amp did'nt see the point or understand why either, and other people i asked cant fill me in correctly, so whats the deal on this?
     
  2. Mr Incredible

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    Bi-wire? - NO!
    Bi-amp? - YES, but I don;t know if the 2105 is able to assign the surroundback channels to provide additional amplification for the fronts. Bi-AMP in my experience both tightens up (punchier) and expands (greater depth) the soundstage, if you get my drift!
     
  3. Antz Dj

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    You know what i mean though right? Put the four denon front channels to the B&W front's, removing the bi wire bar on the speaker, so one channel to the tweeters and one to the sub's on both front!
     
  4. alphabet

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    He surely knows what you mean:D This is one of the ways to achieve bi-wiring, but the benefits of bi-wiring can be debatted for ever. However bi-amping(using seperate amplifiers for tweeters and woofers) have much more tangible results.

    What Malice was refering to is the ability of some AV Receivers to utilise the surround back channels as additional front channels thereby bi-amping the speakers.
     
  5. Mr Incredible

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    The overwhelming concensus in here is that bi-wiring (i.e. removing the speaker jumper "straps" and connecting two sets of terminals to the same amplifier) is a waste of time. Some say that the bridging straps are not the best at conducting the signal from one terminal to another and often replace it with the speaker wire they use to drive the speakers but just use one set of speaker cables to drive the tweeter and bass drivers.

    As far as bi-amping is concerned where you connect tweeters and bass drivers to separate amplifiers, there are more people who have experienced an improvement than those who haven't. Perhaps its to do with the quality of the source amplifier or speakers, but in any event suck it and see.

    Your 2105 appears to be able to assign the surroundback pair of amplifiers to Zone 2, but unlike the 3806 it doesn't appear to be able to select the "Fronts" as the source. You may want to post in the Denon section to get that confirmed or not. Jase is our resident Denon God in there! If it doesn't work like the 3806 and more like my 3805, there are work arounds but you need to know what you're doing to get it to work sweetly without potentially harming your amp. But ask in the Denon user forum.

    HTH
     
  6. Bossk128

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    I have a 2105, and I'm pretty sure you cannot assign other channel amplifiers to the front speakers to biamp. Unfortunately.
     
  7. Mr Incredible

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  8. Antz Dj

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    So why is there an A and a B on the amp for front speakers, if it is not for what im trying to acheive? (You'll have to forgive my lack of knowlege to this, im new on the scene, lol. I, as a dj usualy play the music, and let those who "Know" sort the sound.:) ) I assumed you could connect tweeters to A and subs to B or vise versa, as after all, the outputs are putting out a signal! I pluged them into both A and B to see!!! In the manual it says connect a speaker to each channel, but whats the point of 4 speakers at the front???, 1 in the center, 2 mid point of the room, and 2 rear? again, forgive my lack of knowlege on this. And thanks for your help so far guys!.
     
  9. Jase

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    Front A and Front B share amplification so connecting them both up to one pair of speakers will only be a way of giving you Bi-Wiring not Bi-Amping.

    The option is there if you had a pair of speakers for music listening only, say some floorstanders or speakers in another room. You can then just select which ones you want to run, either Front A or Front B. You could run them both together but you'd be putting an extra load on the Amps. If both speakers were 8 ohm impedance the amp would see a 4 ohm load when both are running and that might be problematic...
     
  10. Antz Dj

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    I got B&W 100w 8 ohm fronts that i can bi wire due to the straps on the back. I m using the center channel for a crappy philips speaker (waiting to upgrade), backs for B&W 600 s3 i think! (little ones.) and my crappy philips sub! So my question is, shall i bi wire the front ones? Will putting A and B to my tweeters and subs on the B&W 601's be ok? (ie A to tweeters, B to subs! Im only using 5.1 i assume! (no half way speakers) It is bi wiring im trying to acheive i think! Like i say in my original question, is it ok for me to do this on this amp with my B&W's, and what are the benifits? Differences? Again, thank you all so much for your help, and i hope to gain more knowlede from you guys!.:thumbsup:

    Ant
     
  11. Mr Incredible

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    The general concensus is that bi-wiring (in the absence of bi-amping: A + B is NOT bi-amping) produces no audible difference whatsoever. IMHO a waste of time.
     
  12. Antz Dj

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    No worries, just was not sure and could not see the point on A and B on the amp for just front speakers, thought it was for bi-wire!.

    Thanks.
     
  13. Knyght_byte

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    the A and B setup is so you can have two pairs of speakers connected....some people might have a set of satellites they use for their movies but want a pair of normal bookshelf or floorstanding speakers connected for music use.....

    some AV amps have this, others like my Denon 3803 have A and B on the surround channels (side not back), so you can use dipoles for movies or switch to monopoles for multichannel music.....
     
  14. alphabet

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    Antz, just an bit of advice(and its meant in a friendly manner), if you wish to learn something on this forum, you have to read the replies to your questions before asking the same question again:hiya:
     
  15. Antz Dj

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    No need to be like that! I dont realy understand what you guys are going on about! So i asked again, in terms i could understand! I.E can i connect A to subs B to tops on my B&W's etc etc (Bi wire i think its called!). I got my answer...it dont make no difference!. Thank you guys very much. Im new to all this and i will continue to gain knowledge, as im sure you have over the years, im going through this site a lot, and understanding more about how many amps my unit has, how i can bi amp etc etc. But i just wanted to know what they was for. As i now know (thanks Guys) i might run a set of speakers into the dinning room or kitchen so i dont have to crank it up loud to hear it from the front room!:thumbsup:
     
  16. Silver Serpent

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    I would highly recommened banana plugs if you can afford them, as bare wiring will eventually do your head in.

    1) Loss of sound from certain speakers. Having to be pulling out the amp from wherever it is to try and discover the problem.

    2) Cutting and rewiring the cable every few months is a pain, especially if you amp is located in awkward area to access the back of it.

    3) Terminals (Amp end) coming lose.

    With Bananas you just plug and go, that's it, no more hastle (hopefully), and they are very handy if ever moving your gear to a new location.
     
  17. Antz Dj

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    Thanks for the advice, Im looking for a set on ebay! I seen QED, CHORD etc. i use Chord for my dj'ing stuff, cd players etc, as i like the bass it produces (my opinion copared to others i used). im Watching a few speaker wires at the moment on ebay. With plugs already on etc. I would rather buy second hand and save a few quid! As spent k's this few months on t.v, audio and holiday.:suicide: i see some of you have buyer ratings, like ebay! Is that from on here? All i can see is links to shops to buy stuff!.:rolleyes:
     
  18. Silver Serpent

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    I've just rewired all my speakers with 2.5mm2 Oehlbach. It's quite good and available on Ebay in both copper and silver at various different thickness (although I think its all sold out now).

    I got it as cheap rewiring solution until I eventually upgrade to bananas. I'm already having problems with loss of sound from one speaker, but it's nothing to do with the cable.

    How many metre are you looking for anyway?
     
  19. Antz Dj

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    2.6m to each front, and about 8m to back, although i think maybe more as this is a guess, my front room is realy long! Thats why im seriously considering some halfway speakers now i got an amp that can do so.
     
  20. Silver Serpent

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    Take a look here too:

    http://www.lsound.no/eng/index.php?side=info&group=669&subgroup=748&id=2210

    It's good stuff and tidy, but I don't know if it's within your budget or not.
     
  21. Antz Dj

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    I would be wasting my money on them! I cant see the point, my ear is not that accute so to say. As a dj im going def in my left as it is! over 10 years of battering bass lines. I cant tell the difference with speaker cable! But a set of leads from cd player to mixer i can notice the difference, in the headphones anyway!. Im just looking to get a second hand set of half decent leads for £50 realy. White too. lol
     
  22. Mr Incredible

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    As long as you have enough copper in cross sectional area, say 2.5 sq mm to your fronts and 1.6 sq mm (or there abouts) to your rears, then even mains cable will do, if not a bit inflexible!

    Speaker cabling usually ends up with polarised camps on whether different types of cable make an audibale difference. In my set up I use a DIY cable which utilises Cat5 networking cable!
     
  23. Silver Serpent

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    I've 2.5mm2 on fronts, centre and rears.

    £40 the lot.
     
  24. Mr Incredible

    Mr Incredible
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    I think my 300m of Cat5 cable cost me about £55. Three lengths per cable would give me over 100m of 2.5 sq mm, or about 55p per meter. How many meters did you get for £40?
     
  25. Silver Serpent

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    32m for £40, but that included postage, so say about £33 for the cable alone.

    I bi-wired fronts and centre, single wired the rears.

    I didn't have the centre bi-wired previously, but I can definitely hear a difference now that it is. More bass, clarity and a fuller sound.

    It could just be the quality of cable (Oehlbach), but that's debatable.
     
  26. Mr Incredible

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  27. Silver Serpent

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    Yes, that's it.

    £1 a metre on Ebay, but I have just checked and the supplier has sold all he had, including all the Silver cable, which I think was about £2.60 a metre (not sure on that though).

    He was selling 4mm2 too, on both copper and silver if I recall correctly, and 1.5mm2.

    It all must have sold very quickly, because he had alot of listings, and that was up to about a week ago.

    I was quite surprised when I checked just now to see he had nothing left, unless there is another reason for it like listings timed out, and he hasn't put that back up, but that seems unlikey.

    I'll keep an eye on it none the less.
     
  28. Knyght_byte

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    *taps on the window*

    guys, if this is going in to the realms of actual wire choices can we please take it to the cable forum section.....
     

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