Denon AVC-X3700H stereo image and low end bass roll off

When listening to the HT by-pass amp, I'm guessing that there is no way to also have your subwoofers playing as they will be connected to your AVR?
Yes, if you have a high level sub connection.
 

Parry

Distinguished Member
Thansk for all the suggestions.

Finally I made som progress.
I put the distance values from the old Denon and tweaked them and the levels a bit and finally got the stereo image I wanted! Now I can say it is every bit as good as the old and a bit better as I was originally expecting. And the dual subbs adds to it, though I need to sort out their response curve some other day.

Regarding the new auddyssey it tells you to never put the mic closer than 50cm to the wall. But my head is likely less than 30cm from the wall. So I followed the advice. I might even have had it 60cm from the wall. With the old Denon with less detailed advice for the procedure I placed the mic where my head would be. And also at other listening positions where a person would actually sit. Now the new told no keep all measyrements within 60cm of the main position..

If you didn't notice from the pictures I put I'm sitting a bit assymetrically from the speakers and the left one is also slightly further back due to the patio door. But with the correct level and distance settings it does work suprisingly good.
Great stuff, you got there in the end.
I found auddyssey to be very accurate in its measurements when compared to my onkyo, but out of habit I did go in to manual settings and have look, I'm also close the back wall so made some minor tweeks.
I get my tape measure out and measure from each speaker and adjust if needed.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
When listening to the HT by-pass amp, I'm guessing that there is no way to also have your subwoofers playing as they will be connected to your AVR?
Depends on the manufacturer of the sub. Some have both low level LFE and high level Neutrik connection. REL and BK produce such subs.
 

Rodmylon

Novice Member
Adding to my previus comment. The stereo image shouldn't suffer on a straight peroebdicjlar line forward though (in relation to measuring too far ahead)? Now the image ia good I can lean forward 50cm and still maintain the stereo image. So somehow the distances to one of the speakers must have been offset to cause it. I did do the audyssey 3 times and all of them produced similar bad results. Well now they are stored as a phone picture for future needs..

Another question: audyssey put the right sub further away than the left eve though it is closer. Both of them by measurement further than physically but that is a phase thing I suppose. The old did the same. However when you enter the distance -menu and leave it there is a pop up saying one of the speaker distances is unacceptable and changes the right sub down to same value as the left. When you come back it is at the original value and when exiting the same happends again. But when I edited the other speaker diatances it also stored the modified right sub value. If I edit it to any value bigger than the left one I get the same message. But not for making it smaller. A bug? Need to correct the phase throuh the SVS app I suppose..
 

Rodmylon

Novice Member
Great stuff, you got there in the end.
I found auddyssey to be very accurate in its measurements when compared to my onkyo, but out of habit I did go in to manual settings and have look, I'm also close the back wall so made some minor tweeks.
I get my tape measure out and measure from each speaker and adjust if needed.
I remember measuring the exact distance with the old Denon once when a friend was over and didn't believe it could do so precise measurements. But he was proven wrong and the results where within 10cm accuracy. 😋
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
When listening to the HT by-pass amp, I'm guessing that there is no way to also have your subwoofers playing as they will be connected to your AVR?
Some subwoofers allow low level and high level to be connected at the same, my BK Elec ones allow this, in which case you can use low level to the AVR as usual, but also add in high level to the HT bypass amp.

If your sub(s) don't allow that, and your HT bypass amp has pre-outs, then there are some workarounds that could be of use, depending on the system.
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
I'm repeating some of the answers you've had sorry but what I've learnt with modern Denon and Audyssey that made it better for music (well and for HC too) was:
1. Run Audyssey with the mic further forward (even though your ears aren't there), mine is approx 70cm from sofa back in all positions.
2. Use FLAT and not REFERENCE.
3. It liked the front speakers slightly toed in, previous AVRs didn't care so much about this. If you take symmetrical lines to a middle placed MLP, mine are at about half of that angle.
4. Make sure Audyssey is on but Dynamic EQ off for music - it totally ruins it in my opinion. And I now don't use it for HC either.
5. Use the app and not the AVR for Audyssey much more tweakable.
6. Turn off "midrange compensation" that totally ruined vocals in music for me.
This is just what I've found of course but you can experiment with some of these things.
 

Parry

Distinguished Member
If your front two speakers are big enough just use direct sound preset for music which will disable all audyssey features.
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
I used to listen to stereo music with AVR on direct. Then I found Audyssey and I couldn't go back.

For me, it's a bit like after dinner on a Friday night when I'm sat chilling someone offering me a glass of "cola product" with ice... with no Bourbon in it! :)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
It should be noted that if listening to HD sources with a sample rate higher than 48kHz then Audyssey will downsample them to 48kHz.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I did not know this. That seems unfortunate and flawed.


It is due to the processing power needed to be able to deal with higher sample rates. Other room EQ correction systems do however manage to deal with sample rates higher than this. Audyssey suggest you'd not be able to detect a difference though, hence why they use 48 kHz as their threshold:

Audioholics: The top frequency for correction is 24kHz, implying that Audyssey is functioning at a 48kHz sample rate. Does this mean that high resolution content (for example 192kHz or 96kHz sample rate PCM) will be downmixed?​
Chris Kyriakakis: There are two parts to this answer. A loudspeaker does not reproduce acoustic energy above about 24-30 kHz even if it was in the content (with the exception of super-super tweeters), and a microphone cannot capture acoustic energy above that range. So if there is no information captured then, there is nothing for the filter to do up there.
Now, there is content encoded at higher sampling rates of course. We offer MultEQ at 96 kHz and even higher if needed so that the content can be processed without downsampling, even though the MultEQ filters above 24-30 kHz (adjustable) would be doing absolutely nothing. The issue is that doubling the sampling rate also doubles (roughly) the processing requirements needed. This is true for any kind of digital processing not just MultEQ. The AVR makers would have to add significant cost for more DSP processing and they have chosen not to do that. So they decided to use Audyssey at a max of 48 kHz. From an acoustic point of view this makes perfect sense for the reason I explained above.


It is however also suggested by many that there are advantages to using a sample rate higher than 48 kHz despite what Audyssey say.
 

SeanBrothers

Active Member
It is however also suggested by many that there are advantages to using a sample rate higher than 48 kHz despite what Audyssey say.
While I am dubious about how much difference higher sample rates would make to anyone's listening, other than perhaps Neil Young but certainly not to mine, but I also wouldn't have expected 96kHz or even 192kHz sampling to be overwhelming for Denon. Maybe in the 90s...

And then what about DSD?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
What about DSD? Most of what Sony initially caimed about it turned out to be what some would suggest fictional.

I've 2 SACD discs, one of which now sells for at least triple the price I originally paid for it. I get the impression that owning SACD discs is more of a status symbol thing that anything to do with higher audio quality.

Leave em out on ya coffee table :)



EDIT Oops, just found another one in my collection that is currently selling for about £80. Best get a bigger coffee table.
 
Last edited:

SeanBrothers

Active Member
I don't have any, nor have I ever listened to any SACDs so I cannot comment other than my usual inability to distinguish Hi-Res audio from CD quality. I was thinking more about the high sample rate and what Audyssey might do to it. Of course it's a bit weird given the 1 bit sample depth.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You cannot apply Audyssey room EQ to DSD encoded audio. DSD bypasses it. DSD doesn't allow for such processing to be applied to it.

You'd need to do a DSD to PCM conversion on the source and then output this with a sample rate of 192kHz. This would then be downsampled to 48kHz by Audyssey on the AV receiver if you were wanting to engage it while listening to said audio.
 
Last edited:

gibbsy

Moderator
And then what about DSD?
For audio quality a lot will depend on the mix. For example the new MoFi stereo SACD of Paul Simon's Still Crazy After All These Years is something of a revelation. There's a wider soundstage and better instrumental separation. SACD will also give you the ability to play a full 5.1 surround and some of those mixes are done exceptionally well. Just listen to the two Pink Floyds classics that have been released in 5.1.

The main problem at the moment with 5.1 DSD is the lack of players for the format although for stereo there are a great many manufacturers supporting the format.
I get the impression that owning SACD discs is more of a status symbol thing that anything to do with higher audio quality.
Philistine. :)
 

SeanBrothers

Active Member
SACD will also give you the ability to play a full 5.1 surround and some of those mixes are done exceptionally well.
I am a big fan of surround mixes of music, and that would be the biggest draw to SACD for me.

So far I've only heard 5.1 mixes from DVD and the Dolby Atmos mixes on Tidal, which is the only draw to Tidal for me..
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I am a big fan of surround mixes of music, and that would be the biggest draw to SACD for me.

So far I've only heard 5.1 mixes from DVD and the Dolby Atmos mixes on Tidal, which is the only draw to Tidal for me..
Blu ray audio is better than SACD but it has simply failed to take off, just like DVD-A. It's unlikely you will get some of the classic albums from yester year released on blu ray. If you want to listen to HD audio at it's very best then buy a copy of Hans Zimmer in Prague with it's wonderful Atmos soundtrack.
 

SeanBrothers

Active Member
Blu ray audio is better than SACD but it has simply failed to take off, just like DVD-A.
So I've noticed. Given that for the last 15 years most people have been happy to listen to 128kbps audio through ear pods, it doesn't entirely surprise me. My collection of 5.1 music consists of Depeche Mode's remasters with regular DVDs that contain the 5.1 mixes and Sgt Pepper's, also on regular DVD. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced Yazoo In Your Room box set with the 5.1 mixes.

If you want to listen to HD audio at it's very best then buy a copy of Hans Zimmer in Prague with it's wonderful Atmos soundtrack.
This was one of the first things I listened to during my Tidal trial as well as John Williams in Vienna. The were both excellent!

I also recommend Norah Jones Come Away with Me in Dolby Atmos on Tidal.
 
Last edited:

gibbsy

Moderator
I also recommend Norah Jones Come Away with Me in Dolby Atmos on Tidal.
I've never streamed music, unlikely to change my ways. I've got a large selection of SACD and CDs. It's only multi channel music that I listen to on my Denon, I don't like it for stereo music and use a stereo amp with HT by-pass in the system.
 

SeanBrothers

Active Member
I've never streamed music, unlikely to change my ways. I've got a large selection of SACD and CDs. It's only multi channel music that I listen to on my Denon, I don't like it for stereo music and use a stereo amp with HT by-pass in the system.
I'm sort of a CD person... I buy CDs and then rip them and usually listen to them that way. But shy of buying A) a player that can play SACDs in multichannel format and B) actually finding my music on said format, streaming seemed to be the easiest solution. Not that I ended up keeping Tidal after the trial ran out. Not enough multi-channel music yet to pull me in.


Apologies for diverting the thread.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: LG C1 OLED + JBL Synthesis SDR-35 First Thoughts, plus TV Show & Disc Reviews & more
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

What's new on UK streaming services for June 2021
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Austrian Audio launches Hi-X65 headphones
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Roku expands streaming content with Roku Originals
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
What's new on Netflix UK for June 2021
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 12th May 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom