denon avc-a1xva pure direct

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by The WB, Aug 23, 2006.

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  1. The WB

    The WB
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    Never really been much of a music listener through my denon amp, occasionaly i have through the ethernet playing mp3 but mostly used for ht. But got this disc that was complemetary from home cinema choice THE HIFI COLLECTION 3. I decided it's time to put it on a test. I first did it stereo/direct the sound was great but when i did it pure direct the sound was even better. you could hear every instrument so clearly even the way the guitar was played it was like he was in my room. I also have one of those sony boom boxes stereos in another room and played the cd through that. You can finally understand what quality is about. The sony sounded like rubbish:thumbsdow. One instrument was louder than the other you could barely hear some of the percussion instruments and clarity was a no no. The denon you literally heard everything the clarity was sensational:smashin: . Just to think that people out there think that this amp is only good for HT but not music. I think before any can comment they need to go and hear it with good quality speakers for the amp to preform the way is meant to. I used a pair of B&W 704 and the tone was beautiful. I also want know does a cd have better quality sound than an mp3? Because isn't mp3 compressed? which i have been told can affect the sound.
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Pure Direct can sound superb if you use a digital source. Basically it doubles up the DAC's and uses four per channel to give better performance. Not sure if you know but you can also apply EQ to it if you wish. The big Denon is equally adept at music and movies.

    I prefer CD's to MP3's to be honest but if the MP3 is a relatively high bit rate it can be difficult to tell it apart from the CD.
     
  3. The WB

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    Applying an eq wouln't that affect the sound or would it just change the tonal sound
     
  4. Jase

    Jase
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    The EQ can affect the overall soundstage, imaging as well as the tone etc. Try the Flat setting for music. :)
     
  5. GlynH

    GlynH
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    You can't even begin to think about comparing a Sony boom box to the XVA - or any other amp in Denon's range - or any other manufacturer for that matter... :rolleyes:

    I come from the 'music camp' where my number one priority has always been the reproduction of good music first & foremost and IMHO if the amp can play music it will definitely do AV! :)

    I have always been pleased with my Denons - from the lowly AVR3200 through to the mighty AVC-A1SE and the magnificent AVC-A1SRA. :thumbsup:

    I am hoping the XVA will be better again - especially when I bi-amp my complete 5.1 setup! ;)

    In answer to your question a CD will nearly always have a 'better quality sound' vs. the mp3.

    Every time you record you generally lose something in the process - with all compressed formats you are literally throwing content away...

    On a good system you should even be able to hear the difference between the original CD and the burned copy of it...

    You owe it to yourself to play a well recorded CD or better still SACD or DVD-Audio disc to see what the XVA is capable of...mp3's will sound exactly what they are - compressed, harsh, lightweight...well rubbish really compared to a 'proper' recording - an amp of the calibre of the Denon will show up the differences clearly.

    Also leaving everything 'flat' with no tone controls and as you found out in Pure Direct mode should improve things again.

    As will taking care with the 'front end' - your CD or DVD player...

    I even have the sub off when playing music although YMMV.

    With the Denon set as above you should be able to hear the differences betweed optical, coaxial, analogue & even mains cables also - although that is opening a can of worms :rotfl:

    Get yourself some good audio only discs, turn the volume up, sit back, enjoy.

    I get at least as much enjoyment from my SRA with music than I do with movies - possibly more...but not from mp3 ;)

    Kind regards,
    -=Glyn=-
     
  6. The WB

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    Your right Glyn, but I did the comparison to test the cd on what I lose or can't hear in the sony which is worth $1500AUS to the Denon. And I can tell you right now with the sony I lose quality,I lose the background instruments some a very hard to hear due to the sound of the acoustic guitar which overwhelms the system. But with the Denon every instrument I can hear clearly, the backgound instruments get recognition and like i said it was like there were in my room it was fantastic. if your looking at an A1XVA for music it's also a winner now im really hooked. Many people say Pre/pros are the only way for music i think many haven't auditioned the a1 and if they have more than likey the salesman hasn't put it on pure direct and on flat.
     
  7. The WB

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    Tried it on flat eq, yep you guys are right best sound i've heard.
     
  8. mattmarsden

    mattmarsden
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    Can you set bass management in pure direct? I couldnt figure out how to do it when using a 2 or 5 channel encoded SACD via firewire
     
  9. Jase

    Jase
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    Yup. You need to go into the Advanced Playback menu from the main setup menu then to the 2ch Stereo/Direct option. From there you can set a different speaker setup for the Stereo/Direct/Pure Direct Modes.
     
  10. pjr918bmw

    pjr918bmw
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    Glyn H - not being funny but ........

    On a good system you should even be able to hear the difference between the original CD and the burned copy of it...

    Rubbish! It's 0 for 0 and 1 for 1 - end of story!
     
  11. Jules

    Jules
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    I'm afraid that is the rubbish statement.

    You really can tell. I didn't believe it until I heard it for myself, but trust me it is true!
    I have a Denon (K)A1SE and matching DVD-A1 conencted via Denon link, and I can tell the difference quite easily.
     
  12. The WB

    The WB
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    I agree with Jules. I heard the difference very easily. It all comes down to quality.
     
  13. GlynH

    GlynH
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    Get off the fence - say what you really mean pjr918bmw... :devil:

    I used to think so too...as you say it originates as bits 0's and 1's so theoretically it should be the same. :eek:

    I am the worlds biggest sceptic (I need proof before I believe anything) but I can only speak as I find.

    You may want to trust what you have hanging on the side of your head - they are called ears if you didn't know. :rotfl:

    If it's only about the 1's and 0's why do different CD players sound different then?

    Regards,
    -=Glyn=-



     
  14. The WB

    The WB
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    You tell him Glyn! you definetley have my support on this one! Mabey it's ear wax blockage i've been told music sounds the same with that problem. A doctors appointment mabey necessary.
     
  15. pjr918bmw

    pjr918bmw
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    Guys guys get real!!!!

    I am talking about the content - not the reproduction between different systems!

    If you copy a cd the copied cd is the same - identical in terms of content. Just think about what you are saying - if there were differences every time, for example,you copied a program/data from your Pc to a cd or vice versa it would not work when you copied it back - and the fact is it does work!

    People concentrate to the nth degree about bit rates, error correction methods,eq or non eq, direct etc when frankly theres as much difference made by the engineer and producer in the studio!

    I absolutely agree that what sounds right to you IS right but please don't tell me it's down to the "quality" of a digital copy!

    and as I reckon this could get boring for all of us - lets not argue. Unless theres someone who can definitively state that the actual content is different!
     
  16. pjr918bmw

    pjr918bmw
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    .. and just to finish when it comes to the quality of my two channel listening I am the most anally retentive person in the entire universe!!:)

    You really would not believe the pratting about I do to get it right ! :thumbsup:
     
  17. Jules

    Jules
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    But we're talking about the replay of the material on the SAME system, so the audible differences can only be attributed to the recording itself.

    Maybe you mean something else?
     
  18. GlynH

    GlynH
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    Calm down WB, :cool:

    The last thing I want is to degenerate this thread into an off-topic slanging match... :eek:

    Everybody is entitled to their opinion and if someone can't hear the difference then they are entitled to say so.

    Having said that it gives them no right to 'rubbish' other peoples experiences and in this case something that I have proven for myself years ago and for me at least still stands today.

    If I and others can hear the difference - not only on my system but on theirs also - are we all wrong?

    Some time ago we carried out an 'unscientific' experiment - I copied some CD's with which two of us were very familiar onto TDK blank media using a Plextor drive regarded by many as the 'best' quality drive available.

    In my friends listening room (now this guy does go to the nth degree and I would have to argue pjr918bmw that you are the most anally retentive person in the whole universe - we should swap notes sometime) :D his wife was swapping the CD's in & out with regular monotony comparing tracks and on each & every occasion we identified the burned copy 100% of the time.

    Even I couldn't argue with that! :devil:

    I even downloaded a program called EAC (Exact Audio Copy) and copied another CD with the same result on my own much more modest system (10K versus 100K - his valve pre-amp alone was worth a cool 71K) and could tell them apart even then.

    I can't explain the technicalities (neither would you with some of your 'tweaks' I guess if you 'pratt about' with your system - cables anyone?)

    :)

    Kind regards,
    -=Glyn=-



     
  19. The WB

    The WB
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    My thread was more about my amp and how i was impressed with the way it delivered the music with such great clarity.When I compared a particular cd with another system I could hear great diffrences between the two.Running it pure direct and flat eq gave a magnificent sound.To me the background instruments were all clear and very easily heard.In the other system the acoustic guitar was loud and in your face and some of the backing instruments you couldn't hear. Cd's vs Mp3 I personally can hear the diffrence between
    the two.
     
  20. GlynH

    GlynH
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    I don't think that is in any doubt WB - I was being picked up on my comment regarding the differences in sound quality between the original CD and a copy of the original CD. ;)

    Kind regards,
    -=Glyn=-


     
  21. pjr918bmw

    pjr918bmw
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    Interesting nobody picked up on my comments re data/programs- wonder why? :) but as I said

    "Unless theres someone who can definitively state that the actual content is different!" Because if it isn't then it's the same!

    The only thing I can think of that might back you up is if there are more read errors when reading a copied CD and the error correction starts working overtime - could do with some technical input from someone - but as I'm sure this has been done to death I doubt we'll get it!!

    It always make me laugh that the more people have spent on cables etc the more they feel the need to vehemently defend them generally on the grounds that there hearing must be better :rotfl: :rotfl: - and I'm not even having a go at that! I am simply questioning the bald statement made that a copied CD is inferior....

    To be fair I took this off the OP's topic and I know I'm not going to "win" so I retire gracefully.....
     
  22. Jules

    Jules
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    If there is increased error correction going on that effects the sound quality, then... it effects the sound quality.

    Nobody said the content was any different....just the resulting sound quality.
     
  23. Moviebuff

    Moviebuff
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    Just reading through this post, I was just about to mention error correction - but you beat me to it!!

    Although all digital data at it's root is 1's & 0's - the way it is proccessed in regards between music and computer is obviously very different.
     
  24. Marcd51

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    Hi Guys, I do have to ask a question I do not have the amp you guys have got and I am one of those people that still have a Denon 3805 which I would like to say is brilliant for music and AV I find, I will at some stage buy one of the higher models like the new 4803..But for now I am still happy with my 3805 and have had it from new.

    My question is on this subject I use my 3805 alot for music and some films at times and I find the quality outstanding for my use.

    I do not use the eq mode at all and that is in the off position and I have switched on the tone defect control or rather that is the factory default setting , dimmer off and video circuitry off would that be the best way to get the best quality out the amp so it is not using any decoding apart from it being in pure direct mode but I do have it in PLII some times so I now that it is using some processing power in this mode .

    Or should I set the EQ mode to flat just like you have done. At the moment I find it amazingly good for my music with the above said ...Should I stick the eq to FLAT mode or shall I leave it off to get the best possible sound like I have done so far???

    Please advise or any tips to hand anyone out there...:confused:
     
  25. Jase

    Jase
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    It's worth trying the EQ to see what you think of the overall sound, some like it, some don't. I'll also use PLIIx Music with EQ on Flat to listen to music depending on what mood I'm in and that works very well indeed.

    Just bear in mind that if you're feeding your Amp a digital signal then you will be using the 3805's DAC's etc. In Pure Direct Mode it doubles them up so uses four per channel instead of the standard two per channel (which is already one more than most other manufacturers). If the source is analog then you get 100% analog bypass in Pure Direct even if the sub is on. The SW channel is analog filtered in this mode. :cool: If you engage EQ though, then you're converting that signal back to digital then analog once again.
     
  26. Marcd51

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    Hi Their , Many thanks for your reply on this matter , I have an Arcam CD93T cd player going into the Denon 3805 via high grade analogue Atlas cables so would this still be using the internal DAC's in the 3805 ??? .

    Would I be Wright in the assumption that I am using the internal DAC's on my Arcam CD Player and then it is going into the Denon... So if I were to enable the EQ to Flat mode as you seem to suggest would this be using more processing power and would that in turn decrease the quality I get out the amp ... I'm I still better of leaving the EQ mode to off position as the Arcam is quite a high grade CD Player ...Or is this two different matters.



    I do use the Amp and CD most days and use PLII on most occasions and I love it too bits . Some times I do use as I previously said Pure Direct mode but I must admit I do love the way the amp does relay the sound in PLII mode and it does such a great job even on my 3805 ... I think allot of people out there miss judge allot of the higher end AV amps for there quality . I only have a 5 channel setup at the mo and do not have a sub at the moment may be for Christmas time and to be honest I find the bass enough as it is and that is with the tone defeat on.

    And what about this other thing it’s got in the manual something about

    IN THE CASE OF DIRECT MODE OR PURE DIRECT MODE ----ON OR OFF

    WHAT'S THAT ABOUT??? Is it best to keep that one off or on???

    There are two settings one for the Flat and so on and the other being what I have said in the above shall I keep that as off.... I what to get the up most best out the amp with out using more than I need processing other than using the PLIIx function .

    Please advise and thanks for your comments so far Jase:clap:
     
  27. Jase

    Jase
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    As soon as you engage EQ or Dolby PLII on top of an analog signal you are then forcing the Amp to convert it to digital for processing and then back to analog again. This would then use the DAC's of the Amp in addition to having used the Arcam's ones already.

    Easiest way to compare the two would be to connect the Arcam to the Denon via BOTH analog and digital. Connect the Arcam's digital output to another Input on the Denon e.g VDP. All you need to then do is set that one up on the Denon to use Pure Direct or PLII and EQ if need be. On the Input that is connect via analog, just set it to Pure Direct, EQ off and it won't perform any analog/digital/analog conversion so you'll hear what the Arcam's DAC's are like.

    You can then flick back and forth between Inputs to see which you prefer.

    In the Denon's Room EQ Setup menu there is an option for Direct Mode Setup. This option must be set to ON if you want to use EQ in the Direct/Pure Direct Modes.
     
  28. pythagoras

    pythagoras
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    Spot on, error correction uses interpolation to correct the errors, i.e. a best guess, therefore a copy with errors will sound different than a pressed CD:

    http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-17

    Regards

    John.
     
  29. Noobman

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    :hiya:

    You speak the truth, This is absolutely the best sound i've ever heard from an Amp(reciever) in stereo listening so far:D. I've totally forgot this pure direct mode:suicide:

    Didn't think that my FUNK could sound any FUNKIER!!!!!....I was wrong!!!!:devil:
    "Free your mind........and your ass will follow"


    //Mats
     

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