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Denon A11 Frame Rate Conversion ?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Dr_Mike, May 5, 2004.

  1. Dr_Mike

    Dr_Mike
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    Having read various posts around here and on avs, it seems as though some of the cheaper LCD projectors (Z2, ae500) either won't accept, or judder badly with a 50Hz signal passed over DVI.

    The Faroudja FLI2310 as found in the A11 apparently does "Tearless" frame rate conversion. Is this facility implemtented on the A11 ? As a prospective projector buyer with a 100% PAL DVD collection, it would be interesting to know (I don't want to go down the HCPC route)
     
  2. Dr_Mike

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    anyone ?

    Can the a11 output a PAL disk at 60Hz ?
     
  3. gandley

    gandley
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    as far as i know the A11 defaults to 60hz when used via the dvi option for both pal and ntsc.

    but dont take that as gospel.....
     
  4. Dr_Mike

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    Thanks, gandley,

    Can anyone comment on how well the a11 does this framerate conversion ? ie has anyone noticed juddering or similar when watching PAl disks over DVI ?
     
  5. Hagaren

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    Hi,

    As I've watched PAL disc with Panny AE500 on DVI 720p mode,
    My panny shaw "750p/50".
    Is that wrong?
     
  6. gandley

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    No that is right, with more recent firmware Denon may have sorted the dvi input to display 50hz which is correct for pal. NTSC should be displayed at 60hz.

    you dont realy want pal running at 60hz as will introduce judder into the pic...NOT GOOD

    rereading the first post, i can see the poster has it around the wrong way. if you have a PAL collection, you will want to display progressive at 50hz to avoid judder, not 60hz as say some samsungs do.

    take for instance the pioneer 868i via HDMI it correctly displays all refreshs to the correct region ie pal50. ntsc60.

    All pjs that i am aware off should do pal50 and 60hz but 50hz is what you want
     
  7. Dr_Mike

    Dr_Mike
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    The stuff I've read suggests that the Sanyo Z2 will not accept any 50Hz signal over DVI, and some have complained that the ae500 judders with 50Hz over DVI (but is fine with 50Hz over analogue component) So outputing 50Hz to the PJ is either not an option or undesirable. If I wanted to exploit the DVI port on these PJs with a PAL DVD collection, I'd have no option other than to use a player or other source with 50 to 60Hz frame rate conversion.

    Apparently, these projectors internally have a fixed panel refresh rate of 60Hz and convert any incoming signal off analogue to that frequency (an can probably do it smoothly) This conversion appears to be by-passed when one uses the DVI input.

    I don't think bad juddering is inherrant in frame rate conversion, it's probably a case of how well it's done. Some HCPC users say they can get PAL to output smoothly at 60Hz and others not.
     
  8. gandley

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    ah i see, bit clearer now.

    thats a pretty bad effort then on the cheap lcd front.
     
  9. Dr_Mike

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    I couldn't agree more.

    The more I read about things like this the more it seems that the AV world revolves around NTSC and I've backed the wrong horse by buying PAL DVDs...

    Back to the original question though, is there visible juddering or other problems on the A11 (or any other frame rate converting DVD player) when PAL is output from DVI at 60Hz ?

    (I take it you can still do this with the newer firmware)
     
  10. gandley

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    yes, some but not as bad as the samsung etc.

    Its going to come down to a demo i think, that is the only way to be sure as judder bothers some more than others

    But i have never seen pal done well at 60hz.
     
  11. Jan_Assembler

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    The problem lies with these projectors AE500 and Z2 with the native resolution 1280x720 from DVI. They cannot refresh with 50hz... They are fixed in 60hz, but only in 1280x720...

    You can use them for example in 576P and it works in 50hz.
    Or 1080i.


    If I am wrong, please correct me... =)
     
  12. gandley

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    i think mike said when used with DVI the projectors forces 60hz as DVI is a computer format.

    and the internal scaler will upscale the image to 1280x720 which again will force the 60hz

    Via analoge the pjs can recieve 50hz(ie component progressive)

    But dont own one say cant say for sure
     
  13. Dr_Mike

    Dr_Mike
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    Interesting that the Denon A11 can apparently do the 50 to 60Hz frame rate conversion better than the Samsung 935. Don't they both use the same FLI2310 chipset ? I assume that it's this chip which does the frame rate conversion.

    Funny how no-one complains about PJs juddering with a 50Hz signal fed via analogue component. If they really do have fixed internal refresh rate of 60Hz, then how come a (cheaper) projector can do a frame rate conversion better than top of the range DVD player ?
     

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