Denon 4500 or 1910 for Triangle Antal ez speakers?

Kellboy

Standard Member
Hi all... i'm new here hope to find advice for a doubt:
Actually have a denon 4500h in 7.4.2 mode who drives floorstanding speakers 7.2 and a denon 1910 connected throw multichannel in ports,bypassing its audissey, for 4x ceiling speakers.
Jusy today ordered a new front set of triangle antal front towers + voce ez center.
Question: new towers have bi amp connections. So for best results do i drive them with classic connection by denon 4500 or fully dedicating denon 1910 for bi amp them?

PS i read in other forum theese speakers express their top bi amping them

Thank you so much in advance
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Bi-amping from an AV amp doesn't bring any benefits. Bi-amping from the 1910, I not sure if you can actually bi-amp with the 1910 anyway. Bi-amping from an AV amps is called passive bi-amping because the amps will still be drawing power from a single power supply unit within the AV amp. A power amp will make far more sense to drive the front three speakers from the X4500.
 

Kellboy

Standard Member
That was the answer i needed... so best solution throw x4500.
Anyway i checked before asking regarding 1910 specs it could bi amp setting speakers a+b front.
I saw that possibility in the antals manual.

Thank you so much
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
That's an interesting set-up. Bi-wiring or bi-amping does add the benefits of back EMF, which may or may not provide an audible improvement. Denon describe it as:

"it prevents the back EMF force (returned force without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter and you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound".

You may as well give it a try and see (hear) if it adds anything.
 

Kellboy

Standard Member
So not defenitely discarded the 1910 option.
I'm going to buy new quality power cables too, but bi amp option is really expensive.
You are agree i'll try both configurations and decide.
Considering the long running in (till 200 hours as i read in other forums) antals need i think to prefer cheap and obvious solution on x4500h first.
Gibbsy told an interesting thing: "A power amp will make far more sense to drive the front three speakers from the X4500" .Surely same amp AV for same branded speakers regarding colouring sound and other interferences has more assurances.
Thank you so much you too
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I'm going to buy new quality power cables too
That's another HiFi myth. It's electricity not magic. You'll be more than fine with the supplied power cables. Save your money.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
but bi amp option is really expensive.
It need not be any more expensive than an additional two lengths of speaker cable to your front main speakers.

The Denon 4500 is bi-amp enabled, so you could use that to bi-amp the front main speakers, using 4 of the amp channels, leaving five left, so that is all the base layer speakers covered. Then use the Denon 1910 for your 4 ceiling speakers.
 

Kellboy

Standard Member
I checked many times Denon 4500 settings:
if i set front speakers in bi amp mode i lose height1 speakers decoding so system stops to 7.2.2 o 9.2
I just installed firmly 4x ceiling speakers they are old yamaha ns110 2 ways they work surprisingly well and detailed.
I'd like stay in 7.4.2 mode.
My actual cables are cheap old 2x4mm with no banana or plated connections.
Refreshing them surely i gain a fresh touch. Honestly in my room there are so many cables expecially from back Denon 4500 mixed power, signal, hdmi... I'm searching only for shield cables not extreme quality for protecting signal from interefernces surely exist.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
In terms of the amp assign settings, it would be worth contacting Denon support to see if the 4500 AVR will support a 7.2.4 set-up with front channels bi-amped plus the four ceiling speakers powered by external amplification.

If not, it might work the other way round with the front speakers bi-amped from the Denon 1910.

You could test the sound in a 7.2 set-up first, with and without the front channels bi-amped to hear if the difference is audible. Then you'll know whether it is worth persevering with that option.

You could refresh your speaker cable if you want to, oxygen free copper is recommended, and for a normal sized living room, 2.5mm is more than enough. Although, if the speaker cable you have is okay, just cutting off and refreshing the end connections to get rid of any oxidisation might be good enough.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
You cannot bi-amp using the Denon 4500, you will then be limited to a seven channel speaker set up directly from the 4500. That would leave you just two channels available for Atmos. Your speaker layout will be a maximum of 7.1.2 with the 4500 in bi-amp mode.

The 4500 has eleven channels of processing and nine channels of amplification. You need nine channels of both amplification and nine of processing for a 7.1.2 in a bi-amp mode. Forget bi-amping if you want to run 9.1.4. Simply not worth it.

The other problem with bi-amping from the 4500 is that with all the power coming from that single PSU the remaining channels will have power taken away from them, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
 

Kellboy

Standard Member
You both right... as i checked in the manual...bi amping in denon 4500 limits decoded channels to 9.1. Another thing to consider (but i'd be glad less power for more quality) is the power out rms: 120w for 4500 vs 90w for 1910 model (both measured 2ch, 8ohm). Seems the best solution is the actual settings with refreshed cables.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
The Denon 1910 also supports bi-amping.

The manual for the Denon 4500 states that if you set the amp assign to 11.1 channel:

Setting to use the 9-channel power amplifier in this unit and an external power amplifier connected to PRE OUT to play back up to 11.1-channels. You can connect speakers for up to 11.1-channels for MAIN ZONE.

So if the front main speakers can be connected via pre-out to the Denon 1910, then that 1910 can be configured for a stereo set up with bi-amping, and will be solely responsible for powering the front mains in a bi-amp config, leaving the 4500 to power the other 9 channels. Would be an option I would have thought, as using a power amp for the front mains is common and my understanding is that Denon are flexible with their amp assign options.

If stuck - Denon tech support should be able to confirm, the manual isn't overly comprehesive in that regard as it directs you to the on screen instructions during the set-up process.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kellboy

Standard Member
You perfectly focused my doubt!!!!! Sending pre out signals from 4500 to 1910 ( for bi amping mode) surely i'll have less hot in Denon 4500 expecially during summer: this is another importan aspect to keep in mind. I have 2x 20cm fans over it pulling out air but in pure mode 2ch temperature always is hot.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
You perfectly focused my doubt!!!!! Sending pre out signals from 4500 to 1910 ( for bi amping mode) surely i'll have less hot in Denon 4500 expecially during summer: this is another importan aspect to keep in mind. I have 2x 20cm fans over it pulling out air but in pure mode 2ch temperature always is hot.
The 4500 will still run as hot. I use a stereo amp with HT by-pass to drive my fronts. I can still boil a kettle on top of it. Good ventilation is absolutely essential.
 

Kellboy

Standard Member
This is my second x4500h. First one died after 3 months... never understood why... simpy turning it on...so i take care of this new one.
 

Kellboy

Standard Member
Planned my way: decided to keep my current setup and to drive new antals with Denon 4500.
Bougth my first speaker cables hi end, a dynavox high end pack, and and a new ofc brass skein for recabling all rest floortanding speakers with new banana connections.
All cabling was close to 15 years old.
Next thu or fri i should have all to mount.
 

Kellboy

Standard Member
Finally mounted all my new setup: antals need so much burning in time to shine but as i hoped they match perfectly with surround e back surround wharfedale 9.5.
A new Audissey calibration helped so much for equalizing all.
Denon set except front and ceiling speakers all as full range: it didn't sound bad but i preferred set initially to 40hz... other tests had to come.
After few hours the main aspects i liked are: center voce ez improved so much dialogues and clean voices, all new cables, for ground speakers, made a deeper sense of dynamism and bright touch, overall 4500h is a bit warmer, the eco green bar is slightly shorter.
But what i appreciated more in the room now basses are tighter and drier. The antals front bass reflex port made the difference.
The denon 1910 continues to drive ceiling speakers as discussed before preferred more muscles for antals forgetting bi amp powering mode.
Thank you all for your precious advices
 

audiolab007

Standard Member
That's another HiFi myth. It's electricity not magic. You'll be more than fine with the supplied power cables. Save your money.
And don't forget the 'magic' expensive HDMI cables (especially) the old stock ones which have lower data rates (ie conform to older HDMI standards) than the newer cheap ones on Amazon. If the cable can transfer the '1's and '0's electrical signals at the right rate reliably then everything should be good.
 

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