Denon 3910- PAL and NTSC

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Barend, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. Barend

    Barend
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    Don't understand why dvi/hdmi only works for ALL discs in ntsc mode.
    Everything else leads to the color crosshatch screen on my Panny TH-42PWD6EX + DVI board.
    3910 display shows 480p, same as when I load a PAL disc!
    Picture seems OK, but it does puzzle me...
    After a lot of fiddling with the setup I managed to roll a PAL disc while showing as 576p, but I could not reproduce it the next day!
    Anyone?

    Barend
     
  2. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi,

    I'm afraid it's a fault of the DVI board which doesn't like a 576p signal, only a non-PAL standard 575p. :rolleyes: Go figure...

    Steve
     
  3. miker

    miker
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    :cool: Guys, sorry to hijack but rather than start a new thread I wonder if you could help.

    WHAT IS the difference between the 3910 and the 2910? besides £300

    I have to decided by Tuesday as I have a 3910 on loan until then.
    Any advice would be great.
     
  4. Barend

    Barend
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    OK, maybe that's the cause, but how come I'm getting a pic AT ALL ?
    AFAIK there's no PAL-2-NTSC converter inside the 3910...and the Pioneer DV-868avi did not produce ANY pic from PAL discs...
    Barend
     
  5. Barend

    Barend
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    Here's a comparison chart that will tell you all.
    http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/2004 DVD Chart.pdf
    Barend
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Barend: I understand from hearing other folks stories that often it is necessary to turn the display on and off many times to get it to lock to the Denons signal. This is with projectors I believe but it sounds like you don't have that issue as NTSC locks all the time.

    When you say the Denon reports the disc as 480p what does the Panasonic. I know you get the nasty crosshatch mess pattern but enter the service menu and see what memory bank it's loaded up. On my DV79 I get the messy picture on the D6 but the Panny reports it's seeing a 625P signal (which it should).

    Also I'll say it again....my D6 accepts a 576P (625p) signal at 50Hz it just requires adjustment of timing parameters in my scaler.

    Gordon
     
  7. miker

    miker
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    According to the spec sheets etc. The only difference between the 3910 and the 2910 is "DPIC – Denon Pixel Image Correction" for around £300!!!! just that difference. I find that hard to understand. Looks like I might as well get the 2910 then.

    :smashin:
     
  8. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    + firewire & Denon link etc
     
  9. gandley

    gandley
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    And then suffer from macroblocking.?
     
  10. Barend

    Barend
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    Err, what are these timing parameters?
    Any chance applying these to the dvi board or the player?
    BTW- Panny displays 525p or 625p correctly, but shows only the noise screen at 625.
    Seems to me the Faroudja processor in the Denon downscales to 480p, what do you think? Would correct interpretation of the PAL signal by the Plasma give me better results?
    Barend
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    They are parameters that are not adjustable in the DVD player (could be by a firmware upgrade I guess though).

    If the faroudja processor was downscaling the image to 480p then the Panasonic would say 525P with a R2 disc. That's not what you are saying is happening though so I suspect it's something else.

    Gordon
     
  12. Barend

    Barend
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    Thanks Gordon,
    Yes that's exactly what happens, sorry I probably wasn't very clear. It says 525p with an R2 disc, Players says 480p, setting NTSC.
    That's the only way I can view ANY disc in dvi on the Denon.
    Picture is OK, but to be quite honest I don't see any difference with component-over-the-Arcam AVR300.
    I can also select 720p and 1080i, 720p with a slightly displaced pic, doesn't matter much because the Panny seems to scale it down to 480p anyway, because I see no real difference.
    I remember the Pioneer was really better in hdmi compared to component playing an R1 disc.
    But I remember you or somebody else writing that the component output of the Pioneer wasn't very good.
    So that's why I wonder- would the results improve with the Panny accepting 576p?
    Barend
     
  13. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    I seem to remember viewing the spec sheets for the 3910 & the only output resolutions it showed available over DVI/HDMI were 480p , 720p & 1080i (no 576p)
     
  14. JonMace

    JonMace
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    Looking through the manual the factory defalt for HDMI / DVI is 480/576p. My guess is that is would auto swap depending if the sourse was NTSC or Pal.

    So all I can say is :rtfm:

    Been wanting to say that for a while :D

    I have to say that I have the 2910 not the 3910 but I can not see that a higher modle would be worse
     
  15. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    No wonder really , i've juts realised the site at which I viewed the 3910's spec and saw those outputs was a USA site ..........DOH :blush:
     
  16. JetJockey

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    This leads me neatly on to another question for Gordon.

    Just how much of a picture improvement can be had by buying a HD plasma instead of a Normal Def model (assuming one can feed it from a Scaler, maybe Lumagen)? I have a Panny PWD5-42" Normal Def but am considering a high Def model. Is it worth the upgrade?

    Thanks, Gerald. :)
     
  17. dgr6966

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    In the manual for the 2910 (I am assuming the 3910 is the same) it says, "When playing back a PAL-formatted disc, be sure to set the TV TYPE option to NTSC." Admittedly this is taken from the pdf manual downloaded from the Denon USA web site so it may be that Denon are assuming that US TVs will not accept a PAL signal, but if that isn't the case what other reason is there for forcing the TV TYPE to NTSC? :confused:
     
  18. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Traditionaly most TV's (or DVD players) in the USA don't output PAL. Here it is more likely that your TV (DVD player) can output both. If your TV can display both NTSC & PAL you are best leaving your DVD player set to "MULTI" for the display type & then it will output NTSC for an NTSC disc or PAL for a PAL disc, rather than trying to do a format conversion in the player or output pseudo PAL (PAL60) for a NTSC disc etc.
     
  19. Barend

    Barend
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    Interesting thought...
    However, nowhere in the manual it says the 3910 does some sort of ntsc/pal conversion, it does not matter what disc I spin, it outputs an ntsc 480p (525 lines) signal if set to ntsc.
    For PAL discs, setting to PAL or AUTO it sends a PAL signal 576p (625 lines) which leads to the noise pattern.
    So I think the 2 posters that hinted at timing problems and/or the strange discrepancy of my plasma's "575p" were correct, and I switched off dvi and returned to component, which is very good from the 3910.
    But the thought of "why and how" still nags...
    Barend
     
  20. dgr6966

    dgr6966
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    Barend

    I shall check my UK 2910 manual when I get home but out of interest does your 3910 manual suggest that you set the TV TYPE to NTSC when using the HDMI/DVI output with PAL-formatted discs?
     
  21. BrianC

    BrianC
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    another question for Barend, how does the NTSC DVI output compare to the NTSC component?
     
  22. dgr6966

    dgr6966
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    I checked the UK manual for the 2910 and it does say to set TV-TYPE to NTSC when watching a PAL disc through DVI. :confused: Why is this? When set to NTSC with a PAL disc the output in the three DVI modes is reported by my PT-AE500 as 525p, 750p and HDTV60, when set to PAL the output is 625p, 750p/50 and HDTV50.

    BTW out of the box I think the component output of the 2910 is superior to the DVI output.
     
  23. Barend

    Barend
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    When set to ntsc it outputs dvi 480p for ANY disc!
    So you're wrong.
    What's in the manual simply means it can output 480p/576p, the rest is only ntsc as there are no other resolutions yet in PAL.
    Problem is when my Panny sees a 576p signal (player set to PAL) it just produces garbage.
    Either the players reverts to something like 480p-50Hz or it converts the PAL sign.
    Barend
     
  24. Barend

    Barend
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    Yes it does, but I thought that was because these horrible Denon manuals were normally written for the USA marked...what would be the sense of offering 576p otherwise?
    I wonder..

    @BRIAN C

    Just checked an ntsc disc and it WAS sharper and cleaner in dvi than component, and of a brick-like stability but not by much...with the Pio DV868avi the difference was much greater!

    Barend
     

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