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Denon 3808 "Server Disconnected"

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by gcoupe, Jan 4, 2009.

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  1. gcoupe

    gcoupe
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    For some reason, after a couple of hours working, my Denon 3808 loses connection with Windows Media devices on my home network. All my other devices (PCs running either Vista or Windows Home Server) can both serve and connect to each other without problem, but the Denon seems to simply fall off the network after a while.

    The symptom is that after playing streamed files, there will come a point when the Denon cues up the next track, but it either never starts (normally on the Denon's display, you see the buffering go from 0% to 100%, and once it reaches 100%, the track starts playing), or it starts, then the buffering falls back to 0%.

    Edit: I also see a "Server disconnected" message displayed on the Denon.

    At this point, if I search the network from any of the PCs, I will see the other Windows Media devices, but the Denon 3808 has fallen off its perch - it's no longer listed.

    The workaround is to recycle the power on the Denon - that will cause it to reconnect to the network and carry on. But this is hardly the most smooth user experience.

    I have the latest firmware (2.01) and the feature upgrade applied to the Denon.

    Strangely enough, Internet Radio stations work perfectly, but streaming from other Windows Media devices on my home network does not.

    Does anyone have any idea on what might be the problem?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  2. rotohead

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    I have the same problem and have not found a solution after troubleshooting this for over a month. I'm getting very frustrated and plan on calling Denon tomorrow and staying on the line as long as it takes to get this fixed. I've been in touch with Rhapsody/RealNetworks thru their customer support and they've tried to help with this problem but I don't think it is a problem on their end. I think it's Denon's software program on the 3808 units. If I come up with a solution I will post here.
     
  3. rotohead

    rotohead
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    This morning I called Denon tech support and was dissappointed with the results of that call and frankly the attitude of the tech. I was respectful and tried to be a good customer but that didn't get me very far. His overall postion was, "your the only one that has this problem so it is not something we can handle for you". "Our recievers in the lab stream music with out any disconnect". I tried to explain the details of the problem and he said they would run some tests and get back to me but wasn't very promising.
    I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll be cancelling my Rhapsody account soon because no one is willing to help figure this out. I realize it may very well be a problem with the individuals network setup but I'm no network expert and don't have endless hours to troubleshoot this problem. It could be a problem with...
    Rhapsody...but I doubt it
    Denon...
    my Trendnet 11n router...
    or my ISP, Charter 10mbps service (faster by a long shot than DSL).
    So I'll wait for the tech guy from Denon to call me back saying, "...we can't duplicate the problem so your on your own".
    Then I'll just cancel Rhapsody and listen to Internet Radio and try to be satisfied with that.
     
  4. gcoupe

    gcoupe
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    Sorry to hear that you haven't got very far with Denon in solving this issue.

    I'm not using Rhapsody, just using the Windows Media Sharing service built into Windows. I note that the Denon has a Windows "PlaysforSure" sticker plastered on it - somewhat ironic, given the situation...

    I've tried changing my router, but that doesn't appear to affect this problem.

    It is the case that the Denon is at the end of the longest cable (20 metres) in my network. But I'm using certified Cat5 cable - so that really shouldn't be an issue.

    In a week or so, when I have time, I'll make a last ditch attempt to see whether the problem appears when I have a simple test network with just the Denon, a Windows laptop, a hub and a couple of short Ethernet cables in place. If the Denon still fails, then I think it has to be a problem in the Denon.
     
  5. gcoupe

    gcoupe
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    OK, here's an update on what I've tried since my last post.

    1) Set up a simple test network with my laptop, a hub, the 3808 and a couple of short Ethernet cables. Since this had no DHCP server in it, I manually assigned IP addresses to both the laptop and the 3808. This setup worked without problem.

    2) Repeated the setup, but this time, replaced one of the short cables with the installed 20m cable to the Denon in the test network. Once again, this worked without a problem.

    3) Switched back to the operational network, but this time replaced my SpeedTouch 716v5 ADSL Router with a Fritz!Box 7170 ADSL Router. Apart from having to enable UPnP on the Fritz!Box in order for Internet Radio to work (this is the opposite of the SpeedTouch - hmmm...), this setup also exhibited the original problem - after about 90 minutes or so of receiving streaming audio from any of the three media servers on the network, the Denon disconnects itself from the network.

    I've had the Denon streaming Internet Radio on for days without any issue, but as soon as I start streaming from any media server, 90 minutes or so later, the Denon disconnects.

    It strikes me that the other difference between the operational network and the test network is that I use the Denon in the default mode of DHCP on the operational network. I've just switched the Denon over to a static IP address outside the range of the DHCP address pool used by my ADSL router. Perhaps it's an issue with the Denon's implementation of DHCP? I'm currently listening to audio being streamed to the Denon from one of the media servers - I'll let you know what happens after 90 minutes...
     
  6. gcoupe

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    Sigh - well, giving the Denon a static IP address was not the solution. After 90 minutes, it dropped off the network again. I'm completely stumped now. I'll try removing each media server in turn to see if that will make any difference...
     
  7. harry_houdini

    harry_houdini
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    hello mate,

    I've just bought my 3808 and I'm still having a play around. I havn't tried any streaming as of yet but if I can help, I will try to!
     
  8. gcoupe

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    Well now, here's a thing. After all the PCs had got their IP addresses assigned by the DHCP server in the ADSL Router, I turned the router off. So then the situation was a) no connection to the Internet, b) no Wireless LAN (because the WLAN is provided by the Router hardware) and c) the remaining network was a wired LAN with two PCs (both media servers) and the Denon 3808.

    And guess what? In this situation, the Denon does *not* fall off the network.

    I'm betting that the "server disconnected" issue is either caused by some interaction between the Denon and the router (and remember the problem shows itself with both of the two routers I've tried in the network), or it's some interaction between the Denon and something out on the Internet.

    Next step, I suppose is to create a Firewall rule in the router which will block all traffic between the Denon and the Internet to test which of the possibilities it might be.
     
  9. Thế Anh

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    Pls be sure that all the seperate steps bellow was done. If not, 3808 can not be access to hear the music you want

    Step 1: Prepare Connections
     

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  10. Thế Anh

    Thế Anh
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    Step 2: Prepare IP Address
    -
    3808 need one IP Address, which is assigned from DHCP Server or be assigned from you (static IP)

    -PC:
     

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  11. Thế Anh

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    Step 3:

    Setup on 3808 so it can be received a IP Address, following these steps:
     

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  12. Thế Anh

    Thế Anh
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    Step 4: Install a DLNA Server on PC

    +Start/Run, type services.msc then Enter

    +Scrolling to this Service, then start it
     

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  13. Thế Anh

    Thế Anh
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    Step 5: Sharing the Folder, which contains the music you would like to hear

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Thế Anh

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    Step 6: Turn off Firewall on PC (In case it is runing)

    1. Click Start.
    2. Click Run.
    3. Type Firewall.cpl, and then click OK.
    4. On the General tab, click Off (not recommended).
    5. Click OK.
     

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  15. gcoupe

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    Thế Anh, thanks for these steps, but they are not telling me anything new.

    1) The IP addresses of all devices on my network are set up properly. I've had the Denon using both an IP address assigned by the DHCP server in the router, and also a static address that I set up on the Denon. That makes no difference to the issue.

    2) I'm using the Media Sharing capabilities of Windows Media Player 11 (which is also DLNA compliant) on PCs running under a variety of OSes: a) Vista Home Premium, b) Windows Home Server and c) Windows 7 Beta. They are all happily sharing media with each other (irrespective of whether the home network is connected to the Internet via the Router) - and with the Denon (as long as my home network is isolated from the Internet).

    3) And I don't want to turn off the Firewalls in my PCs, thank you very much. As far as I can tell (looking at the firewall rules), all the necessary exceptions are made to allow media streaming through all firewalls.

    But thanks anyway for trying to help.
     
  16. mossym

    mossym
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    have had something similar happen to me a few times, playing a song, then it doesn't move onto the next song int he album and the display is locked at 100% or 0%. at the time i was still copying over files to the nas i was streaming from, so blamed it on that. will see if i can replicate the problem tonight
     
  17. gcoupe

    gcoupe
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    I've blogged about the whole sorry tale here:
    Now You See It… - Windows Live

    complete with screenshots etc. I still haven't got to the bottom of what's causing it, but I'm pretty sure the Denon is at fault.
     
  18. theraq

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    I had same issue, my edaler told me to reset your AMP and redownload firmware.... 1st thought it'll be useless... but it work...

    So try to reset your amp but before that make sure backup your settings.
     
  19. gcoupe

    gcoupe
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    Thanks, Kalababa, I'll give that a whirl, and post the results here.

    By the way, following up on an earlier post of mine in this thread, I did try using the Firewall to isolate the home network from the Internet, and the Denon worked properly, streaming music from Media Servers on the home network.
     
  20. gcoupe

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    Hi, Kalababa, you wrote:
    Well, I tried that. Doing a hard reset on the amp was no problem, but how did you redownload the firmware?

    When I tried that, the amp just tells me it already has the latest version installed, and won't download the firmware again... I tried the both the "check" and "start" options in the Firmware menu, but in both cases, it just comes back and says the latest is already installed and won't reinstall...
     
  21. gcoupe

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    ...Oh, and after a hard reset, the problem is still there - the Denon still falls off the network after a couple of hours... Dayum.
     
  22. gcoupe

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    OK - I now have a workaround, but it's not very elegant.

    I have created a Firewall profile for my ADSL Router that has a rule that prevents only the 3808 from accessing the Internet, or receiving traffic from the Internet - all other devices on the home network can connect to the Internet as usual.

    When I set that profile into the Firewall, then the 3808 no longer falls off the network, and I can stream music from the servers on our home network.

    It's not elegant, because if I want to switch to receiving Internet Radio stations on the Denon, then I have to switch the Router Firewall profile to one that allows Internet traffic to and from the Denon.
     
  23. _SeLecT_

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    That's definitely not elegant, but thanx for trying so persistently :smashin:

    Just to you let you know, i'm also experiencing the same prob on my 4308, only mine started after i upgraded it to the 4308A. Before the upgrade it never dropped the connection to my router :suicide:
     
  24. gcoupe

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    Interesting. I didn't try out streaming from my Media Servers for long periods of time before I installed the Feature upgrade (and went to version 2.01 of the firmware), so I couldn't really say whether it was working before.

    But whatever the case, we both seem to have ended up in the same place - with Denon AVRs that don't work properly as advertised... Sigh.
     
  25. klousf

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    My 4308 have the same problems, even after changing the digital board by denon.
    When i disconnect the internet connection I still have the same problem.
    I noticed that the 4308 goes to internet every 4 minutes. It sends 6 packets to ip-address 207.188.0.25 at port 443 (ssl?). Does anyone know why?
    I guess it has something to do with the internetradio list.
    Monday I will be contacting denon again.
     
  26. gcoupe

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    That IP address is owned by Real Networks Inc, the owners of the Rhapsody service. So I don't think it is to do with the Internet Radio list, but probably to do with the Rhapsody service.

    But it would not surprise me in the slightest to learn that this is contributing to the problem.
     
  27. Fred the Oyster

    Fred the Oyster
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    Have you tried the Twonky media server just as an experiment to take the Micro$haft server out of the equation?
     
  28. klousf

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    I checked the following things:
    I have used Twonky 4.4.4 on an Synology DS207+ NAS.
    I have used the build-in player in the Synology,
    and I have used Windows media 11 from my XP-laptop

    All 3 players I have tested via the network (different switches used!!) and also via a cross-over ethernet cable

    every time the 4308 stops responding after different times(1 to 3 hours) I feel that when I browse a lot with the remote it takes a shorter time to screw up. My guess is, it has something to do with a memory leak, or something else in the firmware, maybe a memory problem because my problems are worse since I upgraded to the 'A' version.

    Frank
     
  29. gcoupe

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    Fred, I've just tried a trial installation of the Twonky Media Manager (which includes the server component) on one of my Vista systems... What a disaster that was...

    First, the Twonky server crashes frequently on Vista - not a good sign (and I note that on the Twonky forums, a "DLNA Best Practices" post written by a Twonky Product Manager goes so far as to advise against installing on Vista - I can now see why. It doesn't appear to be very stable).

    Second, the Twonky service is now also crashing my Denon 3808. After a while, the Denon can no longer find any media servers on the network (Twonky or Windows Media), and even the Internet Radio function stops working. I have to refresh the network connection on the Denon to get it back in the air.

    Third, during the short time window when Twonky does appear to be working, choosing tracks will often result in a "Track not found" message on the Denon - even though the track file is present on the server, and can be served up to the Denon by the Windows Media server.

    My experience of this product has not been good thus far. I suspect I will be kicking it off my system very soon unless things radically improve.
     
  30. gcoupe

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    Just an update to the thread on this issue.

    Klousf reported that the 4308 sends 6 packets to ip-address 207.188.0.25 at port 443 every few minutes. I've had another report from someone else that they are seeing the same thing: packets being sent from their 3808 to 207.188.0.25 on port 443.

    Since that IP address is registered to Real Networks, I'm betting that it's something to do with the Rhapsody music service (which I don't use).

    I'm convinced that this is a bug - unfortunately it's one that doesn't seem to be acknowledged by Denon.

    The problem definitely lies within the Denon - it is independent of the routers that I use, and occurs with all the UPnP media servers that I've tried (WMP11, WMP12, WMC, Asset and Jamcast).

    The only way to stop this bug in its tracks is to prevent the Denon from communicating with the Rhapsody server out on the Internet by means of a Firewall rule.
     

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