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Denon 3806 coming soon

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by potshot, Sep 15, 2005.

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  1. potshot

    potshot
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    A replacement for the 3805 will be here by the end of this year or early next year.

    THE 3806 IS COMING

    The major changes over 3805 are it will have HDMI switching to connect sky HD, DVD player, xbox and playstation 3 to a HDMI display.

    The calibration will be the one used in the high end AV denon amps that takes readings from 8 different locations in the room, called 8 cubed.

    The output is the same at 120 watts per channel

    Anybody thinking of buying a 3805 should wait because they will be discounted once the 3806 is out and you might want to buy the 3806 instead.

    I have a 3805 for my AV and the new changes are not enough for me to spend out again. I want more than they offereing and I am sure yamaha will be the first to offer THXultra2 at price point of £1000. Denon seems to follow what happening else where before adding.

    The 3806 might have the odd other change compared to the 3805 but nothing major.
     
  2. chrisrand

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    I thought about hanging on for the 3806 but didn't bother in the end for the following reason.

    The main advantage is hdmi switching. To use this you need an hdmi connector on your screen. But if you have any other devices that are not hdmi, the 3806 will not switch the component signal to hdmi, therefore you need to keep 2 cables running to your screen, and change the tv input signal between devices.

    This is what i will be doing as i have a hdmi dvd player running directly to the plasma. I cant see it is worth the extra money when you will still have to switch the tv input anyway. This is still no problem on the 3805 as the remote control can be programmed to do it.

    i think a decent reduced price or second hand 3805 is well worth the saving on the 3806!

    Perhaps I am missing something here?
     
  3. Eddy Boy

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    The words THX Ultra 2 plus £1000 equals rubbish amp to me at the moment. Or one with very little connectivity or features.

    If anything the prices of THX amps are either staying where they are or rising.
    Or at lest from what I have seen.

    Isn't the Denon room EQ and setup on the high end amps called Audyssey? not 8 cubed

    Plus where have you been http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DenonAVR3806AVR4306receiver.php Notice the date.
     
  4. potshot

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    Eddy Boy

    I was talking to denon today and the guy called the room set 8 cubed, maybe they use a different name. My point on THX ultra 2 is, there will come a time when a company like yamaha will put it on a amp below £2000 but nearer the £1000 mark. Because there is such much compitition in the £1000 av amp area one of them, yamaha or pioneer will make the move. The only other thing left after HDMI switching is 10 channels so the the front channels can be bi-amped, THX ultra 2 or offer a chip that will scale up vidoe to HD. The guy from denon reckons THX ultra 2 will happen in time.

    As I said the 3806 does not offer enough for me to upgrade and I feel that many will feel the same. Plasma's will soon appear in numbers with more than 1 HDMI input and I imagine some will have 3. Denon needs more on a new amp at the £1000 mark to get my money.

    Thanks for the link, haven't seen the full spec.

    If the 3806 sells in the states for $1299 thats £750 @exchange $1.74 to the £. They will price it here over £1000, but you can bet your bottom dollar a retailers will be selling it for $800 before long or around £460. Doesn't it make you sick.
     
  5. Cable Monkey

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    I am not sure the 3806 was ever intended as an upgrade in the same way as the 3805 was over the 3803. It is visually almost identical, has the same amplification and offers HDMI switching which for most is still some way off in the future, assuming HDMI does become the norm for digital connectivity. For the sake of that and 'improved' auto setup I can't see too many Denon 3805 owners moving sideways.
     
  6. Miniholic

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  7. potshot

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    Looking at other amps at this price it seems that denon are just playing catch up again. They really don't lead at this price point which is disappointing. I think it would of been better to call the amp 3805 mk2 instead of adding just a little and giving it another number. The next big step forward for £1000 will be here soon, again denon will play catch up instead leading from the front like they used.

    I have seen the AVC-A11XV or US version 4806 selling in the US for £1600 instead of our £2500 and the AVC-A1XV selling in the US for £2700 compared to our £4000. Must be some big mark up on these amps if these US company offer such big discounts.
     
  8. Cable Monkey

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    What would you suggest does lead at this price point? And what do you base that on, a list of specifications or a listening experience?
     
  9. potshot

    potshot
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    What I am saying is denon won't add value unless made to do so by others. They don't lead whereas they used to. When the 3802 came out it left the compitition behind for what the amp offered at the price point. The player in the game who has moved things along the most in the last couple of years is pioneer they have pushed the stakes higher. I would like to see denon get back into the race instead trying to catch up with adding bits to their amp because the compitition has already got them. Instead of tinkering at the edges the 3805 was due for a more extensive work over, but what we got is nothing much at all. It will not make owners of the 3803 or the 3805 run out to buy the new amp.
     
  10. Cable Monkey

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    I listen to the 3805 because I prefer its sound to other amps. It is the primary reason why anyone should choose an amp. Bells and whistles won't make me rush out and buy a Pioneer or any other make. A better listening experience will.
     
  11. Jase

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    Denon are still ahead of the game in a few places. They're one of the few, maybe only, to offer Dual DAC's on their mid priced Receivers as well as true 100% analogue bypass (Pure Direct mode). These features have been standard for quite a while yet the competition has only just caught up or has yet to include them. Pioneer may have got ahead them with regards to Room EQ but the Audyssey MultEQ XT system on the new Denon's has put Denon at the head of the field again. Denon Link now passes all signals and is technically better than I-Link, although you are limited to Denon only products.

    In the end though, as Cable Monkey has pointed out, it's down to how it all sounds at the end of the day. You pays your money, you takes your choice....... :)
     
  12. rhubarbe

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    I may be being naїve here, but what is to stop you buying one form the States?

    I see. Lookin' at the manual for the 4806 on the US web site it doesn't have a universal power supply. Bugg*r.
     
  13. potshot

    potshot
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    It depends how much it will cost postage, around £40 to £50 I would imagine and there is the customsduty to pay plus vat. The first and last are easy to work out but the customs duty is very complecated. I would like to know what rate is charged in the £ for importing AV amps. It probably wouldn't pay unless the discount was on a more expensive amp say the AVC-A11VX which retails over here for £2500 and in the US you can get it for £1600. Denon has banned mail order on their top end products which I find disgusting, it must be to stop discounting.
     
  14. Jase

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    Don't forget the hefty stepdown transformer you'd also need to run a US Amp...

    As for discounts, they may have stopped mail order on their top end gear but you can still get them by waving a pile of cash under the dealers nose.
     
  15. Colgate7110

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    Pheeewwww! I've been dreading the day they announce the '06 since I picked up my '05 back in December last year. Actually pleased to see they've not changed too much ;)

    I'm curious as to what the 3 user settings buttons on the front, lower right panel do - are they just there to set values like speaker levels, EQ modes, etc in a preset? Seems a bit redundant if that's the case as I think I've changed the settings about twice since hitting the "perfect" setup months ago.

    I was keen on the HDMI switching but I'm going to hold off getting an LCD or plasma for another year (still can't decide which to get), I can't Sky (no line of sight apparently), the Xbox 360 won't have an HDMI lead for some time, and the PS3 is a good while away yet. All I need HDMI for is my 3910 and I've survived so far...

    What I would like to see (although I'm not spending another £900 to get it) would be onscreen display with progressive signals. It's probably the only niggle I have with the 3805 itself. Yes, it is minor but really is all that bothers me. :)

    Oh, and the 3805 remote control is frustrating in that you can't see it anytime the sun is up but what have they done to the 3806 remote??? I can't help but think it looks horrible with an appalling layout :thumbsdow
     
  16. Jase

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    The User Modes store Input Source, Surround Mode and Input Mode. These are in addition to the Personal Memory Plus settings that are stored. It's just a handy way of quickly recalling a preferred mode for an input without having to change other settings. :)
     
  17. Ian J

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    bump
     
  18. Knyght_byte

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    hmm....i might have to keep my eye out for a 3805 going cheap soon then.....if i can get some poor soul to take my 3803 for about £350, i can stump up another £150........i want denonlink damnit!!...lol..it really would solve some problems for me connectivity wise....

    im actually very happy with the sound of my 3803, but the fact i have two things wanting 6 channel ext inputs is annoying..heh
     
  19. Cable Monkey

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    It all has a knock on effect though. Cheaper 3805's mean cheaper 3803's.
     
  20. Colgate7110

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    Cheers for the info Jase but I still don't get it. I don't see what this does that Personal Memory Plus doesn't already do. :confused: Are the 3 User Modes unique to the overall receiver and not each input so I could have, say, mode 1 as SAT with PLIIx, mode 2 as DVD with standard (for DD and DTS tracks), and mode 3 as DVD with Pure Direct mode (for CD audio)? If that's all it is, for the sake of saving one button press, it's not really a huge leap forward is it? In saying that, I've just realised how much I value Personal Memory Plus - I'm using my 3805 to route sound from 6 different sources, most of which with different setups for audio signals and the fact that it remembers each one is perfect. But User Mode? Hmmmmmmmm.....

    Cheers,

    Colin
     
  21. Eddy Boy

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    No the new Denon room EQ used on the AVR-3806, 4306, A11XV (4806) and A1XV (5806), is call Audyessy, not 8 cubed, the microphone can be placed in 8 different positions but for certain is called Audyessy, maybe you misheard.
     
  22. Jase

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    The User Modes are unique to the overall Receiver. Just means that if you have multiple people using it they can instantly recall the last mode they used on a particular input without having to manually change from what someone else last used. Say you left it on DVD, Dolby EX. In comes the other person but wants to listen to their last setting e.g CD, Pure Direct. They just press User 1, listen, sorted. You come in later and just press your one button to go back to your stored setting. It's just an extra feature.

    Personal Memory Plus is very handy though, as is Auto Surround Mode. Combine all these things and you have a very flexible system. I just hope that the User modes will also remember the channel level settings as well. At the moment the Denon's store Dolby/DTS/PLII etc as one mode, so if you adjust the channel levels for DTS it has a knock on effect across to Dolby etc. Can be a pain when you need to increase the SW output for Sky+ on the Sat/DBS Input and it also applies it to the other Inputs that are set to use Dolby/DTS.
     
  23. Eddy Boy

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    You can go as far as saving one with the Auydyssey room EQ one without and the third with your own personal EQ. Then go between them and hear the effect it has to the sound.
     
  24. Jase

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    Nice. :smashin:
     
  25. potshot

    potshot
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    I haven't seen any UK spec for the 3806 to up convert to hdtv but seeing they have put this facility on their 2910 DVD player just released costing £250 but available for £200. It will be disappointing if it doesn't appear on the 3806.

    Where next for the £1000 amp section considering up converting to hdmi will be appearing low end gear before long, £300 price point I reckon. The next generation of chips in the £2500 and £4000 models moving down or thx ultra becoming available at the £1000 price point. But how long before a 64bit floating point chip is released for sound and the 32bit chips are redundant.
     
  26. Jase

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    Everything eventually filters down from the Flagship amps but don't expect THX Ultra 2 gear to appear in the 1k bracket anytime soon, unless it's second hand. THX Select 2 is already there though.

    Most new DVD players from Denon now have built in scaling so there's not much point in them including it in their Amps as well. If you want a more flexible scaling option then you'd be better off buying a proper Video Processor. The scalers in Amps are nowhere near as flexible as these and are usually limited to a set number of resolutions.
     
  27. potshot

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    I disagree that denon don't need to put scalers into amps, what about if you want to scale other video sources such as sky and have video switching. I reckon 12 to 24 months and thx ultra will be moving closer to £1000 amp. I am sure it is possible now but what would they have to seperate the so called high end amp from the £1000, except the processors used.
     
  28. rhubarbe

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    Well, I bought two pairs of Polk Audio LC65i from a guy in Hickory NC for $898 including shipping ($85). They came USPS Global Air Parcel and took about 5 days. Duty (£11), admin (£8) plus the VAT all together cost £108.

    Total for TWO pairs £624.

    HiFiBitz price £749 a pair.

    Today I ordered a LC265i for $350....

    Customs duty isn't complicated. Phone up HM Customs and they'll tell you what the rate is.

    Shame the 3806 isn't a universal PSU....
     
  29. Eddy Boy

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    The DVD players scale but they can't convert a signal coming in to HD only from DVD discs. Also Digital video switching is cheap, but Denon have used repeaters allowing 15 meters from player to amp, then another 15 from amp to display, with switchers you got a total run of just 15, or whatever the maximum run is now, is it 20m?

    In theroy upconversion should be on the amps as a lot of us with Sky plus Playstations or Xboxes, lets see what happens for the 3806.

    So you can see this costs more.
     
  30. Jase

    Jase
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    The 3806 has a single AD 21366 which one on one is more potent than one of the DSP's in the A1XV. The A1XV has more DSP power only because it has 3 DSP's for the main zone and a 4th DSP which controls the Zone 2. DSP's are relatively cheap to implement. It's all the bits like Amplification which bump the price up. A THX Ultra 2 Amp needs to be pretty beefy.

    The scaler in the A1XV is very limited, you have a choice of a few resolutions only. A true Video Processor/Scaler gives you an option to create custom resolutions as well as outputting the signal of your choice (Component, RGB, RGBS, RGBHV etc etc). The only AV Processor that will offer anything like this sort of flexibility is the new Anthem Statement D2 in the USA. Expect to pay about 5-6k for it. If you want to scale Sky etc now, just buy a seperate scaler. You can get an old Lumagen Vision from a couple of hundred quid and it'll do a better job than the one in an AV Amp.

    If you think that THX Ultra (2) willl be down at 1k then that's your opinion. Over the last few years their price has gone up each time a new Amp is released, rather than down.

    Even if they seperate Processing from Amplification you'll still be paying top money for them. As an example NAD's new Master Series Processor is THX Ultra 2 and relatively cheap at 2k. Still need the Amp though, and that's another 2k+. ;)
     

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