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DENON 3802 / is this a fault ?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by burkey, Jul 16, 2002.

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  1. burkey

    burkey
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    I have owned my 3802 for about six months now and am very pleased with the performance. Recently I upgraded my speakers and have delved in to the set up menue to re set .

    My equipment B&W 603 S3 front L/R
    B&W LCR6 centre
    Dyanaudio Audience 40S rear
    Rel Q200E sub

    The B&W speakers are very base heavy in my small room so I tried the following both front speakers and centre set to large and rears set to small .Sub set to 80HZ crossover and base set to LFE only.The sub is wired with two phono leads in to the subs 0db and +12db from a splitter from the amps lfe output.


    In this configuration whilst watching TV in PL11 no base output to the sub. If I designate the centre speaker to small all is ok again.Also if I set amp to both LFE+Main all is OK .

    Is this a problem with the amp or is it normal .
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi

    Sent you a PM. But basically I think what´s happening is that only the bass from the surround speakers is going to the subwoofer, its possible that its a minimal amount and is not detectable as such, setting the centre channel to small increases the bass as the centre channel is heavily used for Pro-Logic/PL2. As I mentioned in the PM, I´ll check my Denon and see what its doing.

    If there is no output whatsoever it could be a bass management quirk on the Denon.
     
  3. burkey

    burkey
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    Thank you for your reply this makes sence as I was only getting a tiny amount of base in PL11 with all but rear speakers set to large. As soon as I set the centre to small the sub gets the base designated from that channel.

    I will continue to play as I like the deep snap on base that I get from the front L/R when set to large . However the base can get a bit much say on a base heavy CD and I have to revert to a small setting for the front L/R speakers .

    I will re read your thread on using both neutric and phono connectors and try and get my head around it. I will try re settiung up the sub when the kids give me five minuits peace.

    Thanks Russell
     
  4. Jase

    Jase
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    Russell

    I tried setting all my front speakers to Large, rears to small, bass to sub only (on mine its LFE&THX). There was no output at all from the sub (had my hand on the cone, not a thing!), weird thing is it applies to Dolby Pro-Logic, PL2 (movie & music modes), DTS Neo (again both modes) and Widescreen only. All other modes had sub output.

    Either its a Denon thing or these modes that are designed to create 5.1/6.1/7.1 from two channel sources don´t have any bass presence in the surround channels.

    Setting the centre to small gives bass output however, as does setting the bass management to LFE & MAIN.

    Strange one indeed.:confused:

    I´ll see if someone can shed some light on it!!:)

    cheers
     
  5. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Right, I have been asked to help out here. Sorry for the delay. Baby minding issues. This one is really confusing and is difficult to explain so bare with me if I don’t get it over first time. I haven’t had 3802 at home for ages so most of this is done from a very dodgey memory. I will refer to Tag as it is what I know best and a few of us bottomed this one out a while ago for the Tag processor.

    Analogue devices supplies Tag / Denon with libraries of software for integration into their processors. They don’t always work quite as expected hence the reason Tag is so highly regarded as it’s speciality is this software ‘integration’. [+ sub modes]


    I. MONO

    The L/R are combined to a produce a mono signal.

    IF C is FULL then all bass is sent to C (i.e. no bass is redirected to either L/R or the subwoofer).

    If C is BASS LIMITED and L/R are FULL then bass below the cross-over frequency will be sent to the L/R (i.e. no bass is redirected to the subwoofer).

    If C is BASS LIMITED and L/R are BASS LIMITED then bass below the cross-over frequency will be sent to the subwoofer.

    II. DIRECT or HDCD

    If L/R are FULL then all bass goes to the L/R with no redirection to the subwoofer.

    If L/R are BASS LIMITED then all bass goes to the L/R with no redirection to the subwoofer (i.e. bass that can not be reproduced by L/R is lost).

    III. DIRECT+SUB or HDCD+SUB

    L/R are treated as BASS LIMITED regardless of whether they are set to FULL or BASS LIMITED with the bass below the cross-over frequency being redirected to the subwoofer.


    IV. STEREO

    If L/R are FULL then all bass goes to the L/R with no redirection to the subwoofer.

    If L/R are BASS LIMITED then all bass goes to the L/R with no redirection to the subwoofer (i.e. bass that can not be reproduced by L/R is lost).

    V. TMS

    If L/R are FULL then all bass below the cross-over frequency for the C/SL/SR is redirected to the L/R (i.e. no bass is redirected to the subwoofer).

    If L/R are BASS LIMITED then all bass below the cross-over frequency for all speakers is redirected to the subwoofer (as it is assumed that no other speakers are FULL and the bass can therefore not be redirected to any of these).


    VI. TMS+SUB

    L/C/R/SL and SL are treated as BASS LIMITED regardless of whether they are set to FULL or BASS LIMITED with the bass below the cross-over frequency being redirected to the subwoofer.

    VII. PRO LOGIC and PRO LOGIC+SUB

    These operate in a manner similar to TMS and TMS+SUB respectively.

    VIII. PRO LOGIC II MUSIC/MOVIE

    L/C/R/SL and SL are treated as BASS LIMITED regardless of whether they are set to FULL or BASS LIMITED with the bass below the cross-over frequency being redirected to the subwoofer.

    IX. DOLBY DIGITAL and dts

    The LFE channel is always directed to the subwoofer.

    If L/R are FULL then all bass below the cross-over frequency of the C/SR/SL speakers is redirected to the L/R (i.e. no bass is redirected to the subwoofer)

    If L/R are BASS LIMITED then all bass below the cross-over frequency for all speakers is redirected to the subwoofer (as it is assumed that no other speakers are FULL and the bass can therefore not be redirected to any of these).

    The "+ SUB" modes were created because some folks were unhappy that their subwoofers were lying idle if the fronts were configured as full range, more an issue for music than movies as movies push the bass heavy stuff to the LFE channel. In a "+ SUB" mode the front speakers are treated as if they are bass limited (even if they are full range in the menu) and bass is redirected to the subwoofer. This is a Tag ‘extra’.

    Although some of the terminolgy is ‘Tag’ I think Denon owners will be able to understand it without problem. It is all down to how you use these libraries. This is why Tag are so highly regarded
     
  6. burkey

    burkey
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    Thank you very much for your detailed reply I did have to read it a few times but I think that it has sunk in the old grey matter.Its nice to know that there is such a good source of advice on this site which I have often refered to , if sometimes only to read past threads.

    Thanks again Russell
     
  7. Jase

    Jase
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    Many thanks Nic!:)
     

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