Denon 3700 vs 4700 - some answers

Dorian

Active Member
I was struggling to decide between the 3700 and 4700 because on paper they are quite similar, and after a lot of searching various forums and Reddit threads I couldn't see any opinions from people who had actually listened to both of them back to back. I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to do so, so here's my experiences. I'm not a professional reviewer, so please take my opinion as just that!

Intro
On paper, the 4700 is slightly more powerful, has a slightly cleaner front panel (sockets hidden behind a panel), and has AL32 processing. The dimensions of the units are pretty much identical. There's £300 RRP difference between the two (£1099/£1399), although it looks possible to get a bit more money off the 3700 from shopping around, street prices may be more like £999/£1399. I couldn't see any deals on the 4700, but you may be able to negotiate a small discount if you ask nicely!

Both AVR's were tested with an LG CX screen, Kef Q35/95C/85S speakers (these are all around 20 years old!), BK XLS200 active subwoofer, and input sources were Nvidia Shield, Xbox Series X, and Sony UBP-X700

Setup
I don't remember seeing any differences between the setup routines of the two machines. Both got on with the job well. I noted that both AVR's reported my rear speakers were out of phase, but I have checked and double-checked the wiring and cannot see how this is correct, so opted to ignore the warning and continue.

Post-setup, I noticed some extra settings on the 4700 for 2 channel playback that I don't think are present on the 3700. It's a nice feature that lets you do things like set the front speakers to large for music playback, while keeping them small for movies. You can also choose how the sub should operate in 2 channel mode. A nice feature. If you care about this and are considering the 3700, check whether the feature is present.

Sound quality
I tested both amps with a mix of music and film soundtracks. My previous AVR was a Sony STR-DN1080, so both Denon AVR's are a big step up in terms of cost.

The most obvious thing to say is that if you want to listen to music (without a separate stereo amplifier) then you should definitely get the 4700 if you can afford it. I don't want to come down too hard on the 3700, but on music playback I was expecting better for the price, and struggled to notice much improvement over my Sony. I personally wouldn't want to sit and listen to it - music just didn't breathe and capture my attention. The 4700 is not quite hifi audio quality, but it's definitely much better. I could (and do) happily listen to music with it. I am still planning to buy a separate stereo amplifier like the Audiolab 6000A, but will want a home listen now to measure the gains over the 4700

With movies, things are much closer between the 3700 and 4700. Bass through my active sub sounded the same, and it was difficult to hear much difference in other sound effects. Both sounded excellent and a considerable improvement over the DN-1080. My wife noted that it sounds like the sub and rear surrounds are much more active. I believe some of this is due to the excellent dynamic volume feature which works very well for my listening, most of which is lower volume. I believe it's essentially dynamic range compression but it seems very well done - rather than just squashing the top end, it seems to lift quieter sounds to make a film soundtrack seem more alive and involving. There's simply more sound coming from the surrounds which adds to the experience immensely.

That said, I would still say there is a small improvement on movies with the 4700. In every film I tested, dialog sounded a bit clearer. And it's obvious to say but films do contain music, so one of my test pieces - the intro to Jackie Brown - does sound better on the 4700.

On the plus side for the 3700, the slightly subdued midrange gives a bit more emphasis to the lower frequencies so it sounded weighty and bassy.

Other stuff

On both AVR's I occasionally ran into issues with losing the image. This was when closing a 24fps movie stream in Plex on the Shield, and going back to the 60fps menus. This never occurred on the Sony. It required switching to another input and back again to get the picture back. I think this has been resolved by changing the HDMI output from Auto to Monitor 1, and I've also disabled all HDMI picture processing and onscreen displays. I don't really like the onscreen displays.

Denon's implementation of eARC works very well in my setup - the Xbox is connected directly to the TV, and the other devices are connected to the AVR. Switching between inputs works fine, and the TV sees the devices connected to the AVR as inputs rather than the AVR itself. What I mean there is instead of seeing "HDMI 2" as the Denon, it shows the Shield and UBP-X700 as individual devices, meaning the TV can be used to switch between devices connected to the AVR. This feature may be more to do with the LG TV than the Denon though.

The 4700 has a slightly different remote - it's heavier and uses AA rather than AAA batteries. As a result of the weight it feels like a better quality item, but the button layout is considerably more cluttered so it's not a total win.

I read somewhere that the 4700 has a metal front panel. I took that to mean the whole front fascia but that didn't seem any different to the 3700. It may just be be that the fold down panel is metal.

Both AVR's seem to output the same amount of heat.

Build quality seems the same between the two. The rear panels are almost identical.

Summary

With the exception of music playback on the 3700, I was very happy with both devices. I think the 4700 is the better performer, so if it's within budget the 4700 is the obvious choice. In movies it's close - you'd probably have to listen back to back to hear the difference. If you're after both music and movies and want to maximise both value and performance, then the 3700 plus a separate stereo amp looks like a very smart move.

That's all folks, hope this is useful. I chose the 4700 and no longer have the 3700 but if you have any questions please let me know.
 
Last edited:
I was struggling to decide between the 3700 and 4700 because on paper they are quite similar, and after a lot of searching various forums and Reddit threads I couldn't see any opinions from people who had actually listened to both of them back to back. I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to do so, so here's my experiences. I'm not a professional reviewer, so please take my opinion as just that!

Intro
On paper, the 4700 is slightly more powerful, has a slightly cleaner front panel (sockets hidden behind a panel), and has AL32 processing. The dimensions of the units are pretty much identical. There's £300 RRP difference between the two, although it looks possible to get a bit more money off the 3700 from shopping around, street price may be more like £999 and £1399. I couldn't see any deals on the 4700, but you may be able to negotiate a small discount if you ask nicely!

Both AVR's were tested with an LG CX screen, Kef Q35/95C/85S speakers (these are all around 20 years old!), BK XLS200 active subwoofer, and input sources were Nvidia Shield, Xbox Series X, and Sony UBP-X700

Setup
I don't remember seeing any differences between the setup routines of the two machines. Both got on with the job well. I noted that both AVR's reported my rear speakers were out of phase, but I have checked and double-checked the wiring and cannot see how this is correct, so I opted to ignore the warning and continue.

Post-setup, I noticed some extra settings on the 4700 for 2 channel playback that I don't think are present on the 3700. It's a nice feature that lets you do things like set the front speakers to large for music playback, while keeping them small for movies. You can also choose how the sub should operate in 2 channel mode. A nice feature. If you care about this and are considering the 3700, check whether the feature is present.

Sound quality
I tested both amps with a mix of music and film soundtracks. My previous AVR was a Sony STR-DN1080, so both Denon AVR's are a bit step up in terms of cost.

The most obvious thing to say is that if you want to listen to music (without a separate stereo amplifier) then you should definitely get the 4700 if you can afford it. I don't want to come down too hard on the 3700, but on music playback I was expecting better for the price, and struggled to notice much improvement over my Sony. I personally wouldn't want to sit and listen to it - music just didn't breathe and capture my attention. The 4700 is not quite hifi audio quality, but it's definitely much better. I could (and do) happily listen to music with it. I am still planning to buy a separate stereo amplifier like the Audiolab 6000A, but will want a home listen now to be sure of the gains over the 4700

With movies, things are much closer between the 3700 and 4700. Bass through my active sub sounded the same, and it was difficult to hear much difference in other sound effects. Both sounded excellent and a considerable improvement over the DN-1080. My wife noted that it sounds like the sub and rear surrounds are much more active. I believe some of this is due to the excellent dynamic volume feature which works very well for my listening. I believe it's essentially dynamic range compression but it seems very well done - rather than just squashing the top end volume, it seems to lift lower volume sounds to make a film soundtrack seem more alive and involving. There's simply more sound coming from the surrounds which adds to the experience immensely.

That said, I would still say there is a small improvement on movies with the 4700. Obvious to say but films do contain music, so one of my test pieces was the into to Jackie Brown and that does sound better on the 4700. Also, in every film I tested, dialog sounded a bit clearer.

On the plus side for the 3700, the slightly subdued midrange gives a bit more emphasis to the lower frequencies so it sounded weightly and bassy.

Other stuff

On both AVR's I occasionally ran into issues with losing the image. This was when closing a 24fps movie stream in Plex on the Shield, and going back to the 60fps menus. This was not an issue on the Sony. It required switching to another input and back again to get the picture back. I think this has been resolved by changing the HDMI output from auto to Monitor 1, and I've also disabled all HDMI picture processing and onscreen displays. I don't really like the onscreen displays.

eARC works very well in my setup - the Xbox is connected directly to the TV, and the other devices are connected to the AVR. Switching between inputs works fine, and the TV sees the devices connected to the AVR as inputs rather than the AVR itself. What I mean there is instead of seeing "HDMI 2" as the Denon, it shows the Shield and UBP-X700 as individial devices, meaning the TV can be used to switch between devices connected to the AVR. This feature may be more to do with the LG TV than the Denon though.

The 4700 has a slightly different remote - it's heavier and uses AA rather than AAA batteries. As a result of the weight it feels like a better quality item, but the button layout is considerably more cluttered so it's not a total win.

I read somewhere that the 4700 has a metal front panel. I took that to mean the whole front fascia but that didn't seem any different to the 3700. It may just be be that the fold down panel is metal.

Both AVR's seem to output the same amount of heat.

Build quality seems the same between the two. The rear panels are almost identical.

Summary

With the exception of music playback on the 3700, I was very happy with both devices. I think the 4700 is the better performer, so if it's within budget the 4700 is the obvious choice. In movies you'd probably have to listen back to back to hear the difference. If you're after both music and movies and want to maximise both value and performance, then the 3700 plus a separate stereo amp looks like a very smart move.

That's all folks, hope this is useful. I chose the 4700 and no longer have the 3700 but if you have any questions please let me know.
You may have some AV Forums reviewers looking over their shoulders now.......
 

Dorian

Active Member
You may have some AV Forums reviewers looking over their shoulders now.......
I'm sure they won't but thanks for the compliment. Although if anyone wants to send me review kit I'm more than happy to receive it!! :D
 
D

Deleted member 876780

Guest
I'm sure they won't but thanks for the compliment. Although if anyone wants to send me review kit I'm more than happy to receive it!! :D

It's a shame you don't still have both units. As the 3700 has the special front pre-out mode (where the internal amps are disconnected), it would have been really interesting to compare the 3700 with a used power amplifier (up to £300) to the 4700. Personally, my guess would be that it isn't the power amps that separate the stereo music performance but probably the processing and pre-amplification. But it would be really interesting to find out, even subjectively.
Music is important to me, if the divide you describe between them for stereo music is as significant as you say, then it would be worth the extra cash. But £300 buys (used) a darn good power amp ;o)
And, I agree the the front panel looks much nicer, but not £300 nicer haha!
Question... even thought the DN1080 is an aging model now, a certain hifi magazine still raves about how amaing it is and how "in yer face" it is. What's your opinion on this versus the Denons? I used to have a STR-DN940 years ago and, indeed, it did have a bright and fresh sound...
 

alebonau

Distinguished Member
I think you have done well to capture the difference between the denon 3 and 4 series that seems to carry through generations...

definitely as you go up the denon and marantz ranks their 2ch ability improves... as does analog stages, pre amp, processing, dac and power supply. definitely folks will weigh this up differently and whether go one way or other everyone will make their own value judgments :)

thanks for taking the time out to pull thoughts together and sharing with folk.... as am sure its a question many will ask...

to throw a spanner in the works... id also suggest if someone is looking at the 3700 id also throw in the x4500h from 2018... as that might be better value if not necessarily looking at the cutting edge features of the 2020 releases...
 

Dorian

Active Member
Question... even thought the DN1080 is an aging model now, a certain hifi magazine still raves about how amaing it is and how "in yer face" it is. What's your opinion on this versus the Denons? I used to have a STR-DN940 years ago and, indeed, it did have a bright and fresh sound...
Yes I know what you're getting at with the 1080. When I first got it home I remember being struck by how detailed the sound is. And for 2 channel audio the 1080 punches above it's weight because I would rate it as about equal with the 3700.

The overall movie experience is still better with the 3700 (as it should be for the price differential) due to better surround and subwoofer usage. I suppose the unanswered question is - could some of the Denon advantage be offset by manually pushing up the sub and surround levels on the Sony? I'll leave that one for someone else to answer.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Good review. Well observed and written. Hope you get many years of good service and enjoyment from your new amp.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
to throw a spanner in the works... id also suggest if someone is looking at the 3700 id also throw in the x4500h from 2018... as that might be better value if not necessarily looking at the cutting edge features of the 2020 releases...
This time last year both the X4500 and X6500s were going for really good prices and that's when I bought my X6500. This year for the obvious reasons the usual dropping of prices is simply not happening. It's almost impossible to find a new unused X4500 in the UK. I think it will be well into the autumn when, hopefully, supplies get back to somewhere near normal.

I think that @Dorian did well to be able to get both the X3700 and X4700 at the same time to be able to compare and make a decision.
 
D

Deleted member 876780

Guest
Agreed Gibbsy. I'm in the market for something to turn up and am expecting it will be later this year before anything is at a reasonable price. I keep watching x300, x400 and x500 models online but they go for so much money it's just not worth it.
Funny that my spare receiver I'm using now is an AVR-X2300 which retailed at £500. I bought that just when the x400 range came out for £334 brand new. They are now selling for that same price on that popular bidding site!
I keep thinking to sell my other spare, x3100, as I could get some decent cash for it but then think "no, keep it, as if the 2300 fails in the next nine months you'll be left on TV sound" ;o)
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
to throw a spanner in the works... id also suggest if someone is looking at the 3700 id also throw in the x4500h from 2018... as that might be better value if not necessarily looking at the cutting edge features of the 2020 releases
Totally agree here. I'm a very happy owner of the 4500H. I will therefore be keeping an equally very tight grip on it. 😊
 

fatsoap

Standard Member
Great review. Would love an update once you’ve gotten your Audiolab as I’m pretty much in the same situation as you. I planned to get the 3700 and add the Audiolab 6000A Play down the road, but my sub only has 1 input so it’s between listening to my floorstanders through the Audiolab with no sub or listening through the AVR with a sub. If the 4700 performs close to the Audiolab, I might just go for the 4700 for simplicity.

cheers!
 
D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
You could get a Minidsp, the HD one then easily switch between the sub out from the two different amps? (You could also then choose different EQ for music if you wish).
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Great review. Would love an update once you’ve gotten your Audiolab as I’m pretty much in the same situation as you. I planned to get the 3700 and add the Audiolab 6000A Play down the road, but my sub only has 1 input so it’s between listening to my floorstanders through the Audiolab with no sub or listening through the AVR with a sub. If the 4700 performs close to the Audiolab, I might just go for the 4700 for simplicity.

cheers!
I have a Denon 4500H (earlier year equivalent model to the 4700, so very similar). I've got it paired with an Audiolab 6000A (same amp without the streamer that's in the "Play"). It's a great combination imo. Runs my Monitor Audio Silvers brilliantly.

What speakers and sub do you have? As said you can use a miniDSP 2x4HD to share the sub between the Denon and Audiolab. But (depending on the model sub), there may be other ways too.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
A MiniDSP 2x4HD is a great device for integrating and EQing subs but if you simply need something to switch the sub's single input connection between two amps then a basic 2-in 1-out RCA switch would only cost about £15 i.e. about £200 less!
 

fatsoap

Standard Member
I have a Denon 4500H (earlier year equivalent model to the 4700, so very similar). I've got it paired with an Audiolab 6000A (same amp without the streamer that's in the "Play"). It's a great combination imo. Runs my Monitor Audio Silvers brilliantly.

What speakers and sub do you have? As said you can use a miniDSP 2x4HD to share the sub between the Denon and Audiolab. But (depending on the model sub), there may be other ways too.
Haha thanks - I had asked about your setup in another thread earlier. Speakers are Dali Oberon 7s and the sub is a REL HT1205.

The set up is for the living room in my new place - but due to COVID there has been a delay in getting my new home and I’ve not taken delivery of my HT set up. Hence, the long window of buyers remorse without having actually set up the system, if you get what I mean.

I’ve also managed to learn more about subwoofer set ups after placing my order, so I’m constantly thinking if I made the right choice. Where I am, it’s not easy to get good subs with dual inputs though as they are quite a bit pricier. A Rythmik F12 which I was considering is close to 1000£, compared to the REL which was about 600£. I saw your solution on the miniDSP but am not keen to go down that road as it adds additional costs and might be difficult for the wife to toggle. Nonetheless, that was a great tip and am regretting perhaps not going with an SVS sub with the app.

Hence, my upgrade path is likely to 1) stick with the 3700, 2) add the Audiolab, and 3) if I really need the bass, add another smaller musical sub for stereo listening in 2 incremental steps. That breaks up the expenditure and allows for some growth/learning along the way. Only thing is that due to space/WAF constraints, I’ll probably only be able to have 2 subs (even that is in question), having 1 each for HT/Music doesn’t seem space efficient. In an ideal world, the two subs would serve both HT/music and I would be able to reap the benefits of having dual subs. Another possibility is to upgrade my HT1205 to Rythmik in the future to have 1 sub that does it all without additional tweaking required (for simplicity sake for the wife).

Hence, the interest in this topic as I could still change my AVR. If the 4700 (400£ more than the 3700 where I am) does indeed play close to the Audiolab (though I highly doubt it), then the 4700 would present a neat one box solution and adding an additional sub would also be easy in the future. It also doesn’t prevent me from adding a stereo amp in the future, but of course cost is a concern). Personally, I’ve only ever listened to music through an AVR, currently have a Denon 6500h which sounds decent, so I’m not sure if the difference in quality would be worth the hassle.
 
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D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
The x6500 is a great receiver, in my opinion, why do you need to change it? Issues with HDMI switching/throughput that need an xX700 series? I'm not saying it would be a bad move but, if it was me (and music was important), I would want to trial the Audiolab before replacing the x6500. We all have different ears (and different rooms) and you wouldn't want to spend all that money and be left preferring the x6500 sound!
 
D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
A MiniDSP 2x4HD is a great device for integrating and EQing subs but if you simply need something to switch the sub's single input connection between two amps then a basic 2-in 1-out RCA switch would only cost about £15 i.e. about £200 less!

Totally agree Mr Wolf, but the Denon AVR will Sub EQ HT the subwoofer, the Audiolab I don't believe has anything, so leaves EQ to the sub's built in knobs/filters. If he gets the MiniDSP he could sort this.
I clearly don't keep up with the times, as I'm surprised to see and REL that doesn't have a high level input. If fatsoap had an REL or BK (for examples) that would be the simple solution.
On another note, fatsoap, while two subs seem a bit silly you could get something 2nd hand and small like a BK Gemini, REL Quake or Velodyne (can't remember the name of the little one) that deals with just music.
 

fatsoap

Standard Member
The x6500 is a great receiver, in my opinion, why do you need to change it? Issues with HDMI switching/throughput that need an xX700 series? I'm not saying it would be a bad move but, if it was me (and music was important), I would want to trial the Audiolab before replacing the x6500. We all have different ears (and different rooms) and you wouldn't want to spend all that money and be left preferring the x6500 sound!
Hi,

the x6500 is part of my dad’s set up and won’t be moving with me. I’m starting a system from scratch hence the need for a new AVR! :) this will be my first set up in my new home.
 

fatsoap

Standard Member
Totally agree Mr Wolf, but the Denon AVR will Sub EQ HT the subwoofer, the Audiolab I don't believe has anything, so leaves EQ to the sub's built in knobs/filters. If he gets the MiniDSP he could sort this.
I clearly don't keep up with the times, as I'm surprised to see and REL that doesn't have a high level input. If fatsoap had an REL or BK (for examples) that would be the simple solution.
On another note, fatsoap, while two subs seem a bit silly you could get something 2nd hand and small like a BK Gemini, REL Quake or Velodyne (can't remember the name of the little one) that deals with just music.
Yeah - the REL HT1205 is part of their HT series and only has low level inputs.

Yup, I’m prepared to take things step by step and slowly add components where necessary. The Dali Oberons have sufficient bass on their own so a sub might not even be required. But as my earlier impression was that the 3700 and 4700 would sonically be similar, if the 4700 is indeed a step up in terms of 2ch performance, it might be a worthwhile top up from the beginning.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Totally agree Mr Wolf, but the Denon AVR will Sub EQ HT the subwoofer, the Audiolab I don't believe has anything, so leaves EQ to the sub's built in knobs/filters. If he gets the MiniDSP he could sort this.
Or replace the Rel with any subwoofer from the SVS Pro range, as the App essentially acts like a "mini" MiniDSP. The SVS Pro subs have a 3 band PEQ built in (like the MiniDSP, but fewer bands). But as important, they have 3 customisable presets. You can therefore set individual crossovers, PEQ, & volume for each of these 3 presets. Meaning you could have a preset for music, movies & night viewing.

The RCA switch is used purely to allow switching of the sub between the stereo amp & AVR

Setup would go:

Audiolab Pre-outs ➡️ RCA input 1 (music)
AVR Sub Out ➡️ RCA Input 2 (movies)
RCA Output ➡️ SVS subwoofer

In the App set & save the music preset as follows (recommended SVS settings for his Oberon 7's - but he can tweek):

1. Recommended Low Pass Filter Frequency Setting (Hz) 50 Hz
2. Recommended Low Pass Filter Slope (dB/octave) 24 dB/octave
3. Adjust the volume in the app until it blends with the mains.

Then set & save the movie preset as follows:
1. Turn off the low pass filter - allowing the AVR's onboard sub EQ to do its thing.
2. Adjust the volume & do any additional PEQ in the app (this will be on top of what Audessey has done).

Then to use the sub for (music):
1. Turn on just the 6000A (Stereo Amp)
2. Select "Input 1" - music - on RCA switch
3. Select the "music" preset in the SVS app

For movies:
1. Turn on both the AVR & 6000A
2. Select "Input 2" - movies - on RCA switch
3. Select the "movie" preset in the SVS app.

You could even mark the inputs on the RCA switch "music" & "movie"

😊👌

Edit: I appreciate this post was slightly off topic with regards to the thread. 😊
 
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D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
Yeah - the REL HT1205 is part of their HT series and only has low level inputs.

Yup, I’m prepared to take things step by step and slowly add components where necessary. The Dali Oberons have sufficient bass on their own so a sub might not even be required. But as my earlier impression was that the 3700 and 4700 would sonically be similar, if the 4700 is indeed a step up in terms of 2ch performance, it might be a worthwhile top up from the beginning.

I've had Denons of various ages from three of the different "levels" of price/spec. In my opinion, there are clear differences in music capability between them.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I've had Denons of various ages from three of the different "levels" of price/spec. In my opinion, there are clear differences in music capability between them.
Agreed.

The difference between my x2500h & x4500h in this regard was very much in evidence audibly....

But adding a dedicated 2 channel amp, took this difference to another "level" again. I think you'll struggle to get any multi channel AVR to match or better pure musical performance of even the cheapest integrated stereo amp.

Stereo amps with HT bypass modes (or a good quality speaker switch - like the berresford), offer an ideal solution for those who want great music and movie sound, but don't want to use 2 sets of main speakers. Assuming you have the cabinet/rack space to accommodate an additional integrated amp! 😊

Edit: I guess it ultimately comes down to how important good music listening is to someone. Do they listen to music enough to warrant the additional cost associated with achieving better 2 channel sound - ie the cost of the integrated amp?

In my case, the cost of the 6000A was a worthwhile investment, as I am 50/50 music to movies. If someone's use is more 25/75 in favour of movies, the 4700 might (or any AVR) may well be sufficient.

That's why this thread - and the comparison @Dorian was able to do is so useful imo 👍🏼
 
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kbfern

Distinguished Member
My X4500 has just had to go in for a repair due to a blinking red light failure I am assuming I will be getting it back repaired under warranty as it's only 16 months old and has a 5 yr warranty.

If for some reason they can't repair it I would have to get a replacement and the 3700/4700 or equivalent Marantz would be the choice so thanks for the review as it would help in the event my 4500 can't be repaired. I assume of course if it can't be repaired they would need to offer a replacement avr which might be an X3700/4700.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I assume of course if it can't be repaired they would need to offer a replacement avr which might be an X3700/4700.
As I understand it. In general if your AVR can't be (or isn't economical to be) repaired, you should be offered the equivalent spec'd model as a replacement. In this case that would be the 4700. Although they may well offer the 3700. In which case, I'd push for the former.
 

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