Denon 3312 speaker choice

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Dave79, Jan 12, 2012.

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  1. Dave79

    Dave79
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    Hello again everyone,

    Im close to making my mind up and getting a Denon 3312. My other alternative would be the Onkyo 709, the only points that the Onkyo seems to have for me are the price (a bit cheaper but not enough to be a deal breaker) and that it has spotify (which I don’t use but may in the future).

    Ive had a Denon before (1906) and I really enjoyed the sound before the wife/toddler killed it.

    I would be running it with low end TDL studio 10 speakers and similar centre and backs for a while, Im under the impression that I wont really be able to tell the difference with these speakers between the Denon 3312 and 2312. Can anyone confirm this and assuming it is the case at what price level should I be looking for to replace my speakers?

    Im living on the west coast of Sweden so I don’t have a massive selection of speakers but Dali and Jamo seem easy to get hold of.

    Ratio now would be music 70% cinema 30%, in the future maybe music 30% cinema 70% as I get a projector and cinema room set up.

    Thanks in advance

    Dave
     
  2. davepuma

    davepuma
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    B&W 600 series, MA Silver, Focal Chorus800, Kef Q series would be a good place to start. Two thousand GBP would be the ceiling I would set with receivers such as the 3312.

    The speaker forum is your best bet.
     
  3. clockworks

    clockworks
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    I'm using Quad L-ites with my 3312, but I've replaced the fronts with Quad 11L2s. Sounds good to me.
    I've also bypassed the Denon's 3 front channel power amps, using Linn and Naim power amps instead, so I guess that raises the stakes a bit. With these amps, the sound is as good as it was with my previous Arcam AVR350. Using the Denon's amps, stereo was a bit lifeless and confused.

    I guess I must be a bit "old-school", but I wouldn't dream of spending more on speakers that the amplification. It was drummed into me back in the day by Grahams (hifi dealer in London) that more money should be spent at the source end of the chain than at the speaker end. They were great disciples of the audio philosophy of "uncle Ivor", and no-one has yet managed to convince me that he was wrong.

    Of course, things might be different these days.......
     
  4. dante01

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    In order to get a comparable match, you need to spend at least 2 to 3 times the amount on the speakers that you initially spent on the AV amp. This accounts for and takes into consideration a 5.1 speaker configuration, more is obviously needed if wanting 7.1.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  5. davepuma

    davepuma
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    That might have been the case with stereo as you were only buying two speakers but now you're buying six including the sub.
     
  6. clockworks

    clockworks
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    Point taken, but I'm also buying 7 channels of amplification, plus a load of extra digital bits and bobs and a radio, in the receiver.

    I'd also guess that good speakers are now relatively more expensive than Japanese/Chinese electronics, compared to 20+ years ago? Maybe that has shifted the balance, price-wise.

    If it really is the case (and I'm open to being convinced about this), then would I get more out of my setup with better speakers? I just wish we had a decent AV dealer down here so I could have a few demos.
     
  7. dante01

    dante01
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    There's nothing wrong with your Quad L-ites, but there's still scope for improvement and the amp isn't yet stretched in terms of powering better. I definitely wouldn't advise anyone purchasing a budget AV amp to then spend even less on their speakers than they've spent on the amp itself. You can't really get a speaker package consisting of full size speakers for much less than £400 so you've to say £500 to just get your foot on the ladder with something half decent. The sub alone can cost you £200 upward.

    Your Quad L-ites would have set you back nearly £1200 when launched and as a 5.1 AV package. You also forget the cost of your power amps isn't a requirement and just something you wanted to do. Many would argue that you'd be better off with a dedicated stereo setup rather than spending a small fortune on trying to make an AV amp sound like one????
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  8. clockworks

    clockworks
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    Thinking back, I paid £1K for the L-ites, plus another couple of hundred for the 11L2s a couple of years ago for the fronts, so the speakers did cost more than the AV amp. I'm using 3 extra amps with it, though, which I could probably sell now for £500+. I bought the L-ites shortly after I paid £1.5K for my old AVR350, so in that instance, the speakers were a little cheaper than the amp.

    Back in the day, I was using a Linn turntable (LP12, Ittok, Karma (I think) which cost around £1200, with a Musical Fidelity MVT pre and Naim 110 power amp (about £1200 for the pair) and a pair of Mission 700 speakers (about £100). On paper, a seriously unbalanced system, but it sounded superb.

    I guess I'm not as bad these days. Been away from the forums (and the AV scene in general) for a couple of years, so I suppose I'm a bit out of touch. I totally agree that you can't buy anything half decent, speaker-wise, for much less than £500 a set.

    BTW, over 25 years later, the Naim 110 is still in everyday use, so that was a good buy!
     
  9. Dave79

    Dave79
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    Thanks for the replies guys,

    I don’t think I im too keen on going down the range to the Denon 2312 as it lacks dual HDMI and pre outs, I don’t really need those now but I may in a few years time.

    £2000 initially seemed a bit high for speakers for me but then once ive broken them down it does not seem too bad, ie 500 for fronts, 300 for centre, 300 for sub + the backs. I will probably have to get them in stages or the wife will have a fit…..

    I will go off and do some research on the Dali and Jamo brands in the above price range.

    Thanks
     
  10. Osamede

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    If you don't actively need the bigger amps or preamplifier-outs right now, I would not bother paying more just to have the option for later.

    At the moment we are approaching a step change where AV receivers will have to make a big step up to do more with better quality room correction on the audio side video networking etc.

    it's one thing if you need the pre-out today. Otherwise I'd just save the cash and get the 2312. You could use the extra money as input into a better receiver in a fee years time. The 3312 is a decent midrange receiver but not really a classic in the making or anything that you'd be shaping up to use for 20 years.
     
  11. Seriously Ltd

    Seriously Ltd
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    3312 will outperform the 2312 by a significant amount IMHO. I used to own a 3310 and it had bags more control than the 2310 unless they have changed the Amps in these models.
     
  12. Osamede

    Osamede
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    These days the accountants call this "optimisation" - and yes they have. ;)
     
  13. Seriously Ltd

    Seriously Ltd
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    That's a shame cos the 33xx models were really good and significantly better than lesser models. They were similar to a stripped down 43xx models.

    You knew what quality you were getting by the model no.
     
  14. Dave79

    Dave79
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    Ahhhhh,

    I cant make my mind up!

    Im defiantly after an amp that will last a long time, so I don’t mind spending a bit more cash now that’s why I was keen going to the 33xx level but if they are not as good as they used to be then…..

    Will do more research on Onkyos as well.

    Thanks
     
  15. Seriously Ltd

    Seriously Ltd
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    Ok how about this. If I were in your position I would look at getting an older model. I know you said that you wanted the latest but if you went for something like a Denon 4310 which will be in your budget if you can source one that is one hell of a quality amp that sold for nearly £2000. It will have most features you require and is upgradable to iTunes AirPlay. It will blow any modern amp out of the water that you were considering. It is a fully loaded amp. Sometimes it is better to get last years model or older as you get a better quality product for less £. If 3D is important get a blu ray player with twin hdmi outs. I personally would have the 4310 over the current 3312 any day. You may even find a 4311 but as they have not replaced this model yet I'm not sure.
    Rich
     
  16. Dave79

    Dave79
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    Thanks for the input richmagnus, I had briefly thought about going down the second hand route but I must admit that im a bit scared of buying second hand electronics, it also may de difficult to get what I want where I live.

    Im close to writing off the Onkyo amps, im a little concerned that some of the reviews don’t think they are too musical and as I could be running the amp for most of the day, for most days then im also concerned about the amount of heat they produce.

    I will probably stick with Denons, the 200+ pound difference between the 3312 and 2212 is reasonably high in the short term but over 10 to 15 years its not.
     
  17. Seriously Ltd

    Seriously Ltd
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    You should be able to get a new 4310 they are still available from some dealers in the UK.
     
  18. Dave79

    Dave79
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    Im sure its a "beauty" but I cant justify spending the extra money on one, especially with my current speakers.....
     
  19. Seriously Ltd

    Seriously Ltd
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    Same price now as a 3312.
     

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