Denon 3312..Advice needed before i buy please..

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by ziggy c, Jan 2, 2012.

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  1. ziggy c

    ziggy c
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    Hi all.

    Im about to take the plunge and buy a denon 3312. [​IMG]

    But would like some advice from you guys first..
    Im curently using a Tag McLaren. AventGarde 100x5 amp.which i plan to use alongside the Denon using the pre outs.
    so to my question...can i still use the denon amp to Bi-amp say my fronts (ie run speaker cables from the denons speker connections to the tweeters and then another run of speaker cable from the tag for the bass for instance ?).
    Or can i only use the tag once i use the pre-out to that?
    and not both together.....just need to make sure before i go and buy the denon....Hope that makes sence.

    Thanks in advance....
     
  2. clockworks

    clockworks
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    While it should be possible, I don't think that it's advisable to use 2 totally different amps for bi-amping.
    Personally, I'd use the TAG to bi-amp the centre channel (Denon centre pre-out to TAG, using a custom cable to drive both TAG inputs from the one mono output). Use the "spare" effects channels on the Denon to bi-amp the left and right speakers.

    If I've misunderstood, and the TAG is a 5 channel amp (like the name suggests), use phono splitter cables to bi-amp left and right, and the fifth channel for the centre. Just use the Denon power amps for the effects channels.

    All this assumes that the TAG has pre-ins.

    This is what I'm currently doing, using a small Naim amp with my 3312. It bi-amps the centre channel.
    My next step will be to use a couple of Linn amps to bi-amp the left and right speakers.

    To me, the centre channel is the most important for 5.1. makes sense to use your best amp for the centre.
    Different if you mostly listen to music in stereo.

    Plenty of options, as long as the TAG has pre-ins for each channel.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  3. ziggy c

    ziggy c
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    Firstly thanks clockworks for your responce.

    Yes now you have pointed that out it makes sence not to mix 2 amps to drive one speaker..:thumbsup:

    The TAG does indeed have pre-ins for each channel(by that i take it you mean the phono in as i call them).

    I totaly agree with you that the centre is the most important so your sugestions make very good sence thanks. Although finding custom cables (well anything half decent) in this part of the world (Dubai) is going to be a challange. As is any good advice.
    so I would be thankfull if u have any sugestions.

    Looking forward to getting this up and running in the next week or so. And playing with the Audyssey which i hope should make a big difference to my room....:smashin:

    Thanks ziggy..
     
  4. clockworks

    clockworks
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    Ideally you need to use 1male to 2male RCA (phono) splitter cables. However, a quick search shows that most RCA splitters are 1M to 2F, or 2M to 1F. You could use 1M to 2F, then use a standard stereo (2M to 2M) cable to complete the connection to the TAG. Plenty of these on eBay.

    I'd be inclined to get some made, using decent RCA plugs and cable. Simple soldering job, but it can be a struggle to get two cables into one plug. Look for plugs that have wide cable entry shrouds, or use thin cable.

    I'm fortunate that my Naim amp uses DIN plugs, so it was easy to make a custom cable.
     
  5. ziggy c

    ziggy c
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    Hi there clockworks.

    Been away 4 a day or so (so busy).

    Guess i should have been more clear on the tag etc (for that i apologize) as it reads, it does assume i have all 5 channels fitted.

    The fact is that there are only 3.which at this moment in time run front speakers (kef 700Q and kef 200Q centre).for the rears i use a audiolab 8000p.
    So what do you think would be my best way to utillize the amps (the Tag and the denon and audiolab)
    Im 100% sure im going to bi-amp the fronts and centre.

    By the way i run a 5.1 set up at the moment, but would like to try the front heights some time in the near future.

    Sorry im fairly new to this stuff and would just like to get the best from what i have.

    ziggy.......
     
  6. clockworks

    clockworks
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    Maybe another Audiolab in parallel with the existing one, to bi-amp left and right fronts, and use the TAG for centre and rears?

    Or use the Audiolab to bi-amp the centre, and fit another channel to the TAG to bi-amp left and right fronts?

    Plenty of options if you can spend some cash, but I can't think of any "free" improvements, just adding the 3312 to your existing setup is about all you can do.
     
  7. ziggy c

    ziggy c
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    Pretty much what i thought to be honest.

    But no chance of getting another module fitted to the tag,as much as i would love to.
    The cost and certianly the hassle of shipping from here (U.A.E)...would just be to much:thumbsdow.
    And doubt very much i would just happen to find another audiolab here..
    so looking like i will be using the denon to bi-amp the fronts.
    not going be short of power which ever way i go i guess.
    will just "play" around with it i guess to see which is best.:thumbsup:

    thanks for the reply anyway........
     
  8. clockworks

    clockworks
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    I guess you'll have to try it and see what you think. I've got a feeling you'll prefer the amps you already have, though.

    2 days ago, I put my Linn amps back into service for the front L&R channels, rather than using the 3312's amps in bi-amp mode. I'm not sure whether it makes much difference for 5.1 sources (too hard to do a proper A/B test with 5.1), but music (wav files via a Pixel Magic media box and external DAC) sounds much better through the Linn amps. I'm listening to music again, and hearing it like I remember it from back in the day.

    Thing is, I'm not using high powered amps. The Linns are only 40 watts per channel. On paper, that's less than a third of what the 3312 is capable of. Plenty loud enough with the Quad 11L2 speakers.

    Don't get too hung up on numbers. I'm sure that the Denon will do a better job of heating up 8ohm resistors than the Linns, but the "inferior" on paper Linns do a much better job with speakers.
    The Naim amp that I'm using to bi-amp the centre is even more "underpowered". IIRC, that's "only" 30 watts per channel!

    IMHO, the 3312 is a very fine pre-amp, with some freebie power amps thrown in to get you started - much like the other Denon and Yamaha AV receivers and processors that I've owned over the years. In fact, the 3312 with Linn power amps sounds better than the Arcam AVR350 that I've just "retired", and that's reckoned to be very good with music (for an AV amp).


    Is it not possible to buy an extra channel (or two) for the TAG as a kit, and get it fitted locally? Is TAG audio still owned by TAG? I thought that TAG (the original parent company) was Middle-Eastern.
     
  9. ziggy c

    ziggy c
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    Yes that's been my way of thinking TBH.
    As i know the external amps will do a better job than the denon.
    I will get in touch wiith IAG as it is now, and see what they think.And let me know if there is anybody in this region that can help......
    I did get them to fit me a centre channel in the tag some years back when i was in the uk. Back then it was 500gbp.(But worth every penny i must say).

    All my media is sat on a server (both films and music) and growing very fast lol. 10tb and needing more drives soon.
    so i would say that im 80% films 20% music,so i guess that may help my decision just a litte. But saying that since buying these speakers im listening to music more now.

    Both the tag and audiolab are 100w per channel ,so not a problem there for sure.
    Worst case im over in the uk for a week in march and maybe i can do as you suggest, and buy the module,if they are willing to do that,and try and find somebody to fit it properly(which i doubt very much over here). But will do some digging round.

    May even drop lucky and find somebody who would buy my TAG AV32R..to help towards the cost.

    Looking like that trip to see "lets just go see what is on offer" which has already seen me buy the speakers and denon is going to snowball.LOL.:smashin:

    Anyway i will keep you posted.....

    ziggy........
     

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