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Denon 2900 & Toshiba 36zp38 progressive problem

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by bananaman, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. bananaman

    bananaman
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    Not sure if this should be on the TV or DVD forums, but here goes...!

    Took delivery of a (multi-regioned) Denon 2900 and a Toshiba 36zp38 at the start of the week. I'm experiencing some of the problems described by other forum members with the TV (buzzing, dirty screen and geometry slightly awry), but I can tolerate those - my main problem is using progressive mode for DVD playback. :(

    When I set the DVD player to 'progressive' (and I'm obviously then using component leads into EXT 4), I get an 'interference' pattern across the image on EXT 4. It looks like waves or bands superimposed over the background image, but it doesn't warp or distort whatever is behind it. :confused:

    This shows up particularly bad on dark images, and is extremely visible on the Denon splash-screen when you turn the player on with no DVD in it. I'm sure it's not the 'frame-dropping' that other people have described when the TV can't do progressive, because when I watch region 1 AND 2 dvds, the picture is extremely smooth. I can literally forget it's there, but then there will be a dark scene and it's suddenly very evident... :mad:

    I'm confident it's not the leads, as they are away from other cables/sources. I thought it might be poorly-shielded component inputs on the TV, but if I switch the dvd to interlaced, the pattern disappears.

    I've asked the opinion of a techie, and their thought is that the TV will not do PURE progressive output. However, I thought this would manifest itself as the 'dropped-frames' symptom, whereas mine is a very clear and stable image, but with a very annoying interference pattern swirling over the top. :confused:

    I'm particularly cheesed because part of my reason for this combo was that both TV and DVD player were PAL & NTSC progressive.

    Any help would be very greatly appreciated - I've spent over £2k this week and I have yet to sit down and enjoy watching a DVD from start to finish!!

    Looks like I'll be going back to my Cyberhome.... :D


    EDIT: as requested, i've just changed the subject of this thread. It's become apparent that the problem is more generic than just Denon 2900's causing problems on the 36ZP38, and is apparently all progressive DVD signal inputs to the television...
     
  2. robjohn

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    sounds either like you are not outputting a pal prog sig or you tv is not able to accept pal prog. I have the 2800 mk2 and have had similar probs it was my player. Being only multiregion and not both. I would take it back to your dealer or do a search for your model. There seem to have been many discussion on many of the denon players. ;-)
     
  3. bananaman

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    Cheers for the quick reply, robjohn.

    It was actually my dealer who also said that the TV would not do 'proper' progressive, so that agrees with one of your suggestions!! He says that the dvd is doing full PURE progressive, but the TV is doing an internal approximation to this and hence the problem.

    However, when I've read other people's posts about their TVs not doing progressive, the effect seems to be more drastic than just some interference lines over a solid background picture! As I say, if the scene on the DVD is a light screen, you would honestly not know there was a problem - the image is pin-sharp. It is only noticeable on dark screens (opening titles, credits for instance) - but it is very noticeable during these parts...:(

    The dealer thinks that unless I go the route of plasma/projector, it is unlikely that I'll find a CRT that will be truly prog-compatible and let me use the prog output. So why do Toshiba market it as a progressive TV?? :rolleyes:

    I'm also sure I read a thread whilst researching the telly and dvd where someone had contacted Toshiba and they'd replied to say that the tv WAS progressive - or am I imagining things?!

    I just feel a bit cheated - I thought component images were supposed to be 'the best' and hence only had component-compatible CRTs on my wish-list.....:(
     
  4. Cadire

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    Although my DVD player drops frames using PS on PAL discs, there's no sign of any interference on my PF2. The picture is actually very clear and sharp. It's the player that drops the frames though, not the TV as I borrowed a friend's PAL PS player and it worked a treat.

    I'm not sure what your dealer means by 'true' progressive scan, but I don't think it's the TV at fault here (unless the TV is faulty... if you see what I mean!).

    What's the picture like when you use non progressive scan component input?
     
  5. bananaman

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    If I use non-progressive (ie. interlaced) through the component leads, the image is rock-solid, although not as pretty! This is the same as when I used a scart lead to connect the dvd and tv together - again, a solid picture and obviously not progressive anymore.

    I thought it might be the PAL progressive problem that I've read about on other threads, but it happened when I tried it with region 1 'Toy Story' - absolutely lovely picture using progressive through the components, but when there were dark scenes, the intereference is still there!!

    Aaaagghh! What do I do?! If I could pin it down to EITHER the DVD or the TV, I'd be a bit more 'happy', as I'd know which bit to replace. But I just have 2 unknowns at the moment! I think I'll take the player to the local Currys/Comet/Powerhouse at the weekend and try it on their 36ZP38s and some of their plasmas - I think this'll be the only way of finding out which one's to blame!!
     
  6. kumamoto

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    I have the same setup bananaman. Denon 2900 and toshiba 32zd26p which is only capable of ntsc progressive scan. The story is simple on mine, if i play a region 2 PAL dvd and use component input on tv i just get a blue screen, unless i switch off progressive scan on the denon and use pure interlace. I totally disagree with the suggestion that this toshiba tv's does not support pure progressive scan. It does. It also has a progressive mode which mimicks progresssive mode on non progressive sources.
     
  7. bananaman

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    Joe, thanks for the info - that makes me feel better at least!! :)

    I would like to stick with both models of the DVD and the TV - if I get ones with no problems, then I'll be a happy chappy! My concern has been that I've deliberately gone out and researched/paid extra money for progressive kit and new component leads, only to be told that at least one of the units is not progressive after all!! :suicide:

    I too thought the Tosh (from what I'd read) had both proper progressive (eg. for input from the Denon), but also a pseudo-progressive that it could use to mimic progressive using interlaced sources (eg. sky, consoles, etc..). It's reassuring that you think the same - it makes me feel like I'm not going mad!! ;)

    Unfortunately, I don't have the blue screen problem that you have, though! I tried region 2 'Blade' (for it's dark scenes) on the Denon in progressive mode, and again, it played perfectly fine, but just with the interference patterns.

    Did you ever get to the bottom of your blue screen problem??

    :hiya:
     
  8. Cadire

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    The blue screen problem I had was due to the fact that the DVDs RGB output had to be disabled to allow Component output to work.

    This is with a Pioneer DVD so it may, or may not, be the same thing as yourselves.
     
  9. Bradford Blade

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    Hiya Bananaman,

    Firstly, in a rather unfortunate way (for you ;) ) I'm glad to have seen this. Y'see, I have the 2900 too, and I had the same PF2 set as you and I had EXACTLY the same 'interference' problem. I thought I was alone in seeing it :mad: and my dealer thought I was imagining things :mad: :mad: so I took my Denon 2900 down to his shop and set it up on a 32ZP38 and hey presto, there it was [the rolling interference). Then we plugged in a Pioneer DV757Ai (progressive) and it did the SAME thing. Then we tried a Sony (930 I think?) and it did the same again.

    I have spoken to Toshiba and they said that under the circumstances it SHOULDN'T be doing this, but our little experiment in my mates store seemed to suggest [as does your own experience] that it is a problem with the actual progressive circuitry in the TV set, so a direct replacement wouldn't make much difference.

    Anyway, the 36ZP38 IS pure progressive capable in both NTSC and PAL modes (incidentally, I found that the horizontal rolling bands were actually worse on PAL, but visible on both formats). It's definately not your cables, I used cheapo's and high-end ones and this prob occured on both sets. And furthermore, it is DEFINATELY NOT the Denon DVD player as has been suggested. It IS a problem inherent in the ZP38 series (or at least a rather large batch)...

    Eventually, my only option was to exchange it for a Panasonic TX36PD30 (progressive) and interestingly I DO NOT get any of these "bands" on this at all. It's simply some poor design or QC on the part of Tosh IMHO, and at least at the moment, I can only recommend that you get another Prog. capable telly:( Sorry, I can't be of any further help, but let us know if you DO get it sorted?

    Best wishes,

    LAGAVULIN
     
  10. bananaman

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    Lagavulin,

    First of all, many thanks for the reply! I've seen many of your posts with regards to your 'adventures' into the fun and games of buying your widescreen telly - although I hadn't realised until now that one of the problems is the one that I'm experiencing!!

    Thank goodness I'm not the only one, also!! You know how it is - you've spent all this time and money researching and, dare I say, even looking forward to buying over £2k's worth of hard-earned kit, only to find it doesn't live up to your high expectations! Not that I'd wish it on anyone else, but it's reassuring when you find someone else who can identify with your problem! :hiya:

    I have to be honest and say that it was almost the flip of a coin that helped me pick the Tosh over the Panny - it really was that close. ( I have no need for the surround-sound speakers, so I purely need a 36" CRT display). If you're saying that the only solution will be to take back the Tosh and get the Panny, then I'll be disappointed, but it certainly won't break my heart! ;)

    Don't take this the wrong way (;) ), but I'll still take the DVD to Currys tomorrow and try it out on their sets - this should hopefully give me a bit of ammo when it comes to asking for a refund! It's a shame if it has to go, though - the picture's lovely when you can't see the interference!

    I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow, but thanks again for the help! :smashin:
     
  11. Bradford Blade

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    Hi there Bananaman,

    Glad to be of help :smashin: I admit that I was a bit on the relieved side to read your post, but believe me, it took no REAL pleasure in learning that you are also experiencing the same problem as I had ;)

    Yeah, I'm the same, I'm quite into my AV stuff and I went for the Tosh over the Panny for two reasons:-

    1) Cost - the Tosh was £200 cheaper than the Panny.

    2) I had the 32ZP18 (PF1) which I thought was great, so I stuck with Tosh.

    And again, I'm with you; I only use the set as a monitor, so no need for onboard surround etc., (which was one of the things going for the Panny IMHO).

    To be fair though, I'm not saying that replacing the Tosh with the Panny is the ONLY solution; you might be fortunate and either (a) get an engineer out who might be able to tweek it or something [although Toshiba did suggest to me that it sounded as if that wasn't too likely] or (b) get a new PF2 and all will be well:clap:

    However, that WAS the case with me, as our little experiment did suggest that a replacement with another PF2 would've had the same results, so it was another make or a refund:( So, I waited for my mate (who basically runs the local independant store) to get the new batch of PD30's in and then I set up his 757Ai to see if that produced the 'interference' before even considering to take it home. Providentially, all was well :D

    But I agree, the pic on the Tosh (when all is good) is simply mouthwatering, although the Panny is nigh-on it's equal, but the probs that can plague the PD30 series are just as annoying:confused:

    Anyway, you do right. Take your player down and test a few sets and see for yourself. If possible get them to try another prog. scan DVD player (i.e. a Pioneer 757) which will help narrow the prob to the set and not the Denon.

    Best of luck mate,

    LAGAVULIN
     
  12. bibooo

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    Just thought I'd say that when I first had my Tosh running NTSC progressive scan from a Tosh SD900e, I experienced interference which sounds similar to what you are experiencing.

    I went mad trying to find where this interference (whole screen pulsated lighter and darker in waves) was coming from. In the end it was down to the coax lead which connected the TV to the analogue aerial. This was only a temporary set-up just to test the TV out before I reconnected NTL; needless to say once NTL was up and running and the coax removed from the equation, the picture was pin sharp perfect.

    My suggestion would be to remove any connection from the TV apart from the component lead to the DVD player and see if you still get the interference.

    bibooo
     
  13. Bradford Blade

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    Hi Bibooo,

    I had nothing connected but my DVD player and it produced the interference. Also, when I set one up in the shop, it was the same, only the DVD player, and the same thing! Moreover, we actually tried it with just the Luminance lead of the Component connection (the Green one) connected and it STILL produced the problem. Apparently the techie/engineer at the actual store (not Tosh) said this pointed to a 'decoder' issue :confused:

    Nonetheless, anything's worth trying & it's doesn't cost anything to try I s'pose :p

    LAGAVULIN
     
  14. bananaman

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    Aaaaagh!! - why is nothing in this game easy??!! :suicide:

    Well, as promised, I took my Denon 2900 down to the local Currys this morning to test it on their 36ZP38 display model...

    Set it up - turned the TV over to EXT 4 - NO INTERFERENCE PATTERN!!!! :confused:

    I tried ramping up the contrast and brightness, but no sign of the pattern whatsoever (cue me turning :blush: - luckily, very few customers around as most of them had more important things to do - something about 'Rugby' :confused: ...??).

    I was hoping, in a strange sort of way, that I'd have the same experience as you did, Lagavulin, in that it would be proven to be an incompatibility between the DVD and the TV. In this case, as I love the 2900, my hand would've been forced and I would have to go the route of the Panny PD30 (an equal first choice to the Tosh, in my book). However, this has now put me in the position of having to make a decision - not one of my strong points!! ;)

    Either way, the current Tosh has got to go back - so I've taken the decision to exchange for another Tosh, and if this has the interference pattern, then it's the Panny - no question.

    Let me stress that this has nothing to do with preferring it to the Panny, it's more a case of 'Better The Devil You Know'... Having now seen a Tosh with a couple of minor probs (and one big one!), I know that if I get a decent one, then I could be extremely happy. I'm prepared to give Toshiba one last chance, but after that it'll be their loss and Panasonic's gain.

    Fingers crossed for a quick and problem-free exchange!

    And many thanks for the helpful advice - it's helped having someone in a similar position whom I can bounce ideas off!

    :smashin:

    PS. Will also post back again when the replacement comes - I'm sure you'll be interested to know how I get on with setting up my 2900.. :)
     
  15. Bradford Blade

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    Hiya Bananaman,

    Sorry to here of your :blush: experience. Nonetheless, in a way, I'm glad for ya mate due to the fact that this might prove that it's only a bad batch of ZP38's and not a problem affecting the whole range - which could well prove fruitful for you should you get a new one and it turns out ok:smashin:

    Anyway, I actually set the Tosh up in my pals store to - more or less - the identical settings of mine at home and the 'interference'was right there! It seemed to me that uping the contrast and brightness actually diminished the effect of the interference (but, of course, made the pic unwatchable :thumbsdow ). Moreover, I found that the stores lighting reflecting on/off the screen also diminished the effect of the 'interference', so I asked my pal to turn off the lighting in the region/area of the set, and it became much more apparent.

    Slightly digressing, I hope you don't mind me correcting you, and I apologise in advance if it's my interpretation that's confused you, but it wasn't down to any "incompatibility between the Denon & the Tosh", just simply that the Tosh - with whatever progressive capable player (3 in total) we plumbed into it - was producing the 'interference' :confused:

    Anyhow, from what you say of your little experiment yesterday, I think you're are better off at least trying another PF2, as you say, "better the devil you know...", and hopefully, if there are some newer PF2's out there that ARN'T producing the problem, hopefully you'll be fortunate enough to get one. And I think you're dead right...if the replacement proves otherwise, it would suggest that ISN'T (sadly) the case, and going for the Panny is your next course of action (BTW, I've posted my own findings/opinions on the "PD30 faults/problems" sticky)...

    Anyway, don't mention it mate, I'm only happy to help. Please do let us know how things go with the replacement, and I hope all goes well:clap:

    Regards,

    LAGAVULIN
     
  16. bananaman

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    Thanks again for the reply and advice, Lagavulin - I'm also hoping all eventually goes well!! :smashin:

    You're probably going to find this amusing, but even before your post about the lighting conditions at the showroom, I've been asking myself whether I should've tried 'x' or turned off 'y' when I went to Currys!!:D The fact the intensity of the visible bands fluctuates at home has left me with nagging doubts over whether I was thorough enough at Currys, but as it is noticeable even at it's weakest at home, I think the few minutes trying to recreate it in the showroom should have been sufficient ;) .

    I'll be honest and say that I had misunderstood the comment about progressive on the Tosh, and I hadn't twigged that it was with all the players that you'd tried. However, from what I've read about the PD30, and the fact that you've now settled for one, means that if a swap becomes unavoidable, I won't be crying into my beer! :)

    Thanks again.

    :hiya:
     
  17. gordonavon

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    Hi folks
    Thought I would join in this thread, since I have the same problem plus another annoying one with the Tosh 36zp38.

    I am also getting wavy horizontal lines swirling down the screen, when starting up a DVD (R2) in the Denon 2900. I have only just got this setup this weekend so not had time to take back to shop.

    What I am also getting when viewing normal terrestrial TV and to a lesser extent Sky is a shaky picture and when the screen is dark some obvious vertical lines about 1 inch apart on terrestrial. The shaky picture is particularly noticeable on the Sky channel viewer. I have the screen set to Natural which seems to be best of the 4 scan options.

    DVD is connected to the TV using Ext 4 (component).

    Looking forward to the results of Bananaman's replacement Tosh since I think I need to swap mine for another as well.

    Sorry I can't offer any advice I am brand new to this Home Cinema thing and it has been a struggle setting all this gear up to work together. I thought that I might have got something wrong but by the sounds of it you have had the same problem (at least as far as playing DVD's is concerned).

    Gordon
     
  18. Bradford Blade

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    Yeah, I know what ya mean. Thats exactly why I spent about 45 mins at my mates store, setting up all the different players etc., to absolutely make sure we were seeing it correctly. But the 5 mins you spent should have been enough - as soon as my 2900 was set up on the store ZP38 I immediately saw the interference

    Your welcome mate:smashin: But I'm hoping for you that it won't come to all the messin' around swaping and changing [these 36" monsters are far from easy to lug around - and the PD30 is 10kg HEAVIER than the PF2:eek:], but if it comes to getting a PD30, let me know if you want any help etc. Feel free to email or PM me (see profile). I'll be happy to help in anyway that I can.

    Hope all goes well and let us know how you get on.

    Regards as always,

    LAGAVULIN
     
  19. Bradford Blade

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    Hi there Gordon and welcome:hiya:

    Sorry to hear about your prob. I had to return my ZP38 just over a fortnight ago and since the stores 32ZP38 also had the same 'interference' effect, I decided to exchange it for a Panny 36PD30, which to be fair, at the moment, I'm extremely satisfied with:D

    Can I ask though, I assume you're getting the 'interference/wavy/rolling lines' when watching DVD's via the Denon's Pure Progressive output? I also found the problem was far worse when watching PAL (i.e R2) discs but not as bad watching NTSC (R1) discs. Have you tried an NTSC disc yet?

    As for the probs you're experiencing on the TV pics, I can't help. The terrestrial TV pic on my returned PF2 was pretty decent, and I didn't seem to get 'interference' when watching DVD's via 'interlaced' either. Same with Bananaman I think as well. However, it sounds as if you've got a naughty PF2, which seems to be becoming a bit of a habit with this set at the minute - and everyone seems to think it's the PD30 thats the bad boy:confused:

    If you want any further help, we're here Gordon, but my advice would be to get a replacement arranged ASAP.

    Hope you get things sorted mate.

    Best wishes,

    LAGAVULIN
     
  20. andro

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    woahhhh....
    I was pretty much decided on getting a Toshiba 32ZP38, until i stumbled upon this thread. Thanks to you guys, I am re-considering because if i buy this TV my main use will be playing PAL and NTSC dvd's using progressive scanning.

    I am waiting on the edge of my seat, hoping this is just a bad batch and bananaman gets a good replacement set. For if he does not, I'm not sure what I'll do now, I hear the panny is good, but am not aware of its negative points. Guess I should start reading up. This does not look good for Toshiba.

    There is so many favourable reviews about the ZP38's I was so set on buying one. I guess you two have bought into a bad batch, I really hope so because this set seems so good. All the review writers must have overlooked the progressive scan mode...?? How can they overlook something so highly featured. I really hope this problem is not global.

    (prays bananaman gets a PS working replacement)
    My purchase may rely on this :)
    Andro.
     
  21. Bradford Blade

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    Hiya Andro,

    This is exaclty why I went for the PF2 as well. I also have a ZP18 (32") which I loved, so another Tosh (for my livingroom) it was. But plumbing in my Denon 2900 resulted in a few tears :(

    Take a look at the PD30 sticky where I've added a few posts on the Panny. 'Fraid it might not be what you want to see though:eek: Yeah, Tosh are in the dog house as well I expect...



    There are also plenty for the Panny PD30 and it is also EISA's Widescreen CRT of the Year:smashin:

    That's what I was also hoping, but I now know of four sets from different parts of the country that are doing this, so theres bound to be still more that aren't reported here. Anyway, keep your eyes peeled for Bananamans posts. He might have some good news:D

    Hope everything goes well for ya Andro,

    All the best,

    LAGAVULIN
     
  22. gordonavon

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    Hi there again.
    Just to let you know that I tried a DVD last night in the 2900 on interlaced rather than progressive and wavy lines/interference disappeared, so that is the same as you guys.
    For a newbie like me I was wondering if you could explain what the difference between progressive and interlaced modes are (are the Natural, Active and 100hz modes on the TV all interlaced modes?)

    I also noticed that the black line at the bottom of the screen was slightly wonky and found the geometry setting which seemed to correct that. Pity it didn't correct the dreadful picture I am getting on terrestrial (BBC1 in particular) and Sky (They were both fine on my old Toshiba 28 model (10 years old). I wonder whether I have all the cables set up correctly. I did swap some around last night but did not seem to make any difference. I also notice that the screen does not seem that clean to me - there seem to be smear marks on the inside - I'm sure there is not but I seem to be getting irritated with even the smallest probs with this set.

    I would like to double check with you guys that I have my external units plugged into the correct scart sockets - I am not sure which of the 3 scarts are RGB compatible either (manual does not seem to mention it), or indeed which of my external units require RGB.
    Anyway the Skybox is in Scart 1, a second Humax satelite box in Scart 2, a Toshiba DVD Recorder in Scart 3 and the Denon 2900 in the component inputs (ext4). All are connected to a Denon AVR2803 multichannel receiver.

    The 3 scarts into the TV are good Ixos ones that cost me £40 each as well. The component input is also an Ixos and another £40!!!

    I am wondering whether to swap the TV for the smaller 32inch model, as to my eyes smaller sets seem to have sharper pictures. Are you aware of any similar problems with the smaller model?

    Anyway I am going to ring QED today which is who I got the TV from and get them to come and have a look.


    Gordon

    PS What does DBS stand for on the AVR2803 - I am using it for the Skybox
     
  23. Bradford Blade

    Bradford Blade
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    Hi again mate,

    Well you've come to the right place for info. So getting my meagre brain into gear, I'll do my best to answer your queries...

    Your 'progressive' problem is pretty much identical to that experienced by Bananaman and myself. It only seems to affect the set when sending 'progressive' signals to it. However, I can't offer any explanation as to why your TV broadcast pics are so bad. I don't watch much, if any, TV myself, and not having anything beyond the bog-standard co-ax aerial on the roof, I can't say I experienced anything like yours on my returned ZP38 :confused:

    Fully dissecting and describing the difference between 'progressive' and 'interlaced' images is pretty difficult without blinding one with science, so I'll try as simply as possible to give you an idea. An 'interlaced' image is made up of TWO scanned 'frames' if you like. The TV scans one 'frame' missing out "every other" scan line, then it immediately scans the second frame effectively filling in the lines that were missed on the first pass. Both these scans make up one 'full' frame, but results in things like visible scan lines, flickering image, reduced sharpness, reduced detail, colour etc. 'Progressive' works by scanning the image in one entire sweep, thereby - in theory - eliminating flicker and scan lines, enhancing detail, colours, clarity etc. 'Progressive' really should make images, especially movies, appear more 'film like'. And yes, all the 'scan' modes on the Tosh (excepting 'progressive' :rolleyes: ) are for interlaced images such as TV broadcasts, VCR playback et al.

    Unfortunately Gordon, this set has reported problems of the dreaded 'dirty screen' effect, which you seem to be describing. I had it on my returned PF2 as well; it started from about 5" down from the top right corner of the screen, and went all the way to the bottom right and was about 4" thick. It didn't really cause me any major probs, but it was a pretty big imperfection:( All the more reason to get replacement sorted...

    If I remember correctly, the first two scarts [1 & 2 respectively] are RGB compatible. Scart 3 is S-Video compatible I think, but I would have expected the DVD recorder to be better off in one of the RGB sockets:confused: Anyway, I reckon your probs are probably NOT down to poor/unshielded cabling, as your Ixos stuff is pretty sound. It could be mains (as in 'electrical' mains) related, but since you DIDN'T have this prob on your old Tosh, I would hazzard a guess not. Also, I have the Denon 3803 and have ZERO trouble with it, i.e. causing probs with any of the other equipment, so its not likely to have any connection there either.

    Sorry to be the bearer of further bad news, but yeah, the model I tested in my pals store was the 32"ZP38 and that had the self-same problem ('progressive' DVD playback). Moreover, IMHO in general the 36" sets are more-or-less as good as their smaller siblings, and my experiences with both the Tosh PF2 and the Panny PD30 does back this up.

    "Digital Broadcast System"

    Anyway, I hope you get your probs resolved with this set. Yes, get QED out and get the ball rolling. If you need any more help, you know where we are. Best of luck Gordon:smashin:

    Regards,

    LAGAVULIN
     
  24. topmba

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    I am now holding back from buying the PF2. JL are throwing in the sd330E dvd players until the 24th Dec. However I want to get a pal prog dvd player so it is no good to me.
     
  25. andro

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    This worries me so much this thread the more and more I think about it.... There must be more ZP38 owners out there who have bought this tv wanting progressive output, and yet there appears to be none who are viewing this messageboard. You'd think if there was a major problem with this there will be more people responding. And if there are people out there happy with the progressive scan, then why are they not replying to this thread... Please please someone read this thread and tell me this TV does actually work well in progressive mode. I really would like to buy this TV, but with all the bad talk of this its putting me off buying a TV until next year.

    To the moderator of this forum...
    This thread has nowe developed and the subject regarding the DENON and the Toshiba ZP38 is now redundant because quite frankly after tests this TV has a problem with other DVD players too so in order to attract this thread to the correct audience can we change the subject to something like....
    Progressive Scan problem with Toshiba Zp38's

    Thanks.
     
  26. bananaman

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    Just a quick update, lads!!

    Firstly, as you've (probably?) seen by now, I'm trying to get the subject of this thread changed as requested by andro. This is in the hope that maybe more people with this set can either report in and agree that the set simply won't do progressive, or to give us a better idea as to whether we are all just the unlucky recipients of a bad batch of TVs. :rolleyes:

    I do find it unlikely that of all the magazines that awarded the accolades and heaped praise on it in spades, none of them tested the progressive image of the TV. :confused: and that's why it's got to be a bad batch, hasn't it??!

    More and more, I'm leaning towards the opinion that it must just be a bad batch. That's what I'm hoping, at least!! Again, apart from the 'interference' and the 'dirty screen', this telly can kick out one helluva picture if/when it's deciding to behave itself. The thing is, like all you guys, I paid what I consider to be top-whack for a display and when this has faults then it is simply not good enough. The last thing I need is to be watching a film with one eye on the film and the other looking for faults - that's only going to lead to headaches!

    Secondly, I received my parcel stickers from Currys this morning, so the onus is now on me to phone them up and arrange an exchange - something that I am hoping to get round to doing tomorrow! :clap: (I really want to be settled on a TV in time for Christmas... :laugh: ) As I said before, I'm going to try a straight swap first, and if I get another dodgy one, then I'll take a refund and shop elsewhere for a Panny 36PD30. It's all good fun!! :rotfl:

    Finally, just to confirm what Lagavulin has already said;
    Scart 1 and Scart 2 are both RGB,
    Scart 3 is S-Video or AV (composite?) - to set this as S-video, press the remote control's 'Menu' button, and then tab over to the 'Feature Menu'. In here, drop down to 'AV connection', push right and you can then see an option to set the EXT3 input (svid or av).

    Cheers for the extra input, lads - especially yourself, Lagavulin! :hiya: You've got my vote for one of the most helpful and friendly members on the forum - cheers mate! :smashin:
     
  27. Bradford Blade

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    Hi Bananaman,

    Aaawww, you've made me:blush: :laugh: Seriously though, if I have the knowledge (not much of it :zonked: ) I'm only too happy to share it. It's no use stuck in my grey matter collecting cobwebs :laugh:

    Anyway, I hope you get it all well and truly sorted with Currys. I really do hope for you guys [Andro especially :eek: ] it is only a bad batch. With the PD30, the newer sets seem to be performing fine, it seems, broadly speaking, that the older versions were the ones suffering with the problems, but no matter what, nothing is perfect:(

    Anyhow, I came across the following, which might be of interest to you guys Progressive Scan problem . I don't know if this is exactly what we're experiencing, but it sure sounds painfully familiar:nono:

    Keep in touch Banana, keeping my fingers crossed for ya:smashin:

    LAGAVULIN
     
  28. andro

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    BUMP!

    Just trying to re-animate this thread as I still want to know if there are any other ZP38 owners out there who are also experiencing Progressive problems? :confused:

    Don't forget to update us on how your replacement Toshiba is doing when you get it Banaman...:cool:

    Cheers, :smashin:

    Andro.
     
  29. gordonavon

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    An update from me.
    Had day off work on Friday for a chap to come round to look at my 36ZP38B. What a waste of time. He had not even seen the TV or the DVD before and could offer no advice whatsoever on the problem. It did not help that the problem was not as bad as previously either!! Needless to say once he had gone and I put a DVD on in the evening the problem was there as bad as normal.
    This will teach me not to buy via the Internet.

    I have noticed though that the wavy interference only seems to happen inbetween scenes eg. if a play a music DVD it will only occur between video clips. Even during the video where there is a black background I cannot see the interference. Is this becuase some of the scenes are recorded for progressive scan and the bits in between are not I wonder?

    I also notice it happening when I play a CD of JPEG's. It is really bad and the quality of the JPEG's is dreadful even though they were taken on a 6mega pixel digital camera - and they take ages to display as well.

    I did get the Denon 2900 from a local shop so I am going to see if they will come and have a look even though I did not get the TV from them.

    I'll keep you posted.
    Gordon
     
  30. Cadire

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    After reading some more posts in this thread, I decided to go and do some 'testing' on my 36ZP38.

    Normal picture is clear and sharp. No 'dirty marks' inside the screen.

    Sky, using RGB, is fine.

    Normal interlaced mode with DVD player (Pioneer 565a) is clear and sharp.

    NTSC progressive mode is excellent. NTSC interlaced is almost as good.

    PAL progressive mode is excellent, though there is evidence of skipped (or added) frames. Using my friend's PAL progressive player, picture is rock solid and crystal clear so I'll blame the player for that.

    PAL interlaced mode is almost as good as the progressive.

    JPEGs are clear, and transition is fast (though again this would be the player).

    So taking all that into account, I'd say the set is fine when used with my player.

    I suspect that the combination of DVD player and TV used is a big factor here. Denon DVDs seem to not like the Tosh PF2 (or vice versa).

    The friend I borrowed the DVD player off (a chinese PLU2 make) has just received his new Panasonic PD30. Unfortunately he has all the bad symptoms described in other threads :(

    All of us 36" buyers seem to be partaking in a lottery at the moment, with the chances of getting a good set being dependant on the angle of the moon compared to Scorpio rising!

    As I mentioned in another thread, if you get a good working model of either make you will be very happy, the difference in PQ is not so great that one really stands out above the other... unless you compare a good one with a bad 'un... and there's the rub, there seems to be a few bad ones out there.

    I think the title should be changed to something like 'ZP38 progressive problems with certain DVD players' rather than heap the blame on the TV alone, that way you'll hopefully get some responses from people with different players.
     

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