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Denon 2900 not recognising film mode

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by neil housden, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. neil housden

    neil housden
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    Has any one else noticed that their 2900 does not recognise dvds as having film content on them? I've been trying to contact denon but not got a satisfactory reply. Playing any dvd over the last month the player has never recognised a dvd as film, it only ever "sees" graphic or video. This means picture quality is not great on my 8ft screen. Worth checking if you demo one of these machines. I think mine is going to go back this weeekend.

    Neil
     
  2. thewall

    thewall
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    I think it has something to do with pal vs ntsc. I never have a pal movie in film mode but almost all the ntsc. It has something to do with how the dvd is flagged. Sorry to be vague:) I think that you can change the progressive mode in the setup menu to mode 2 and that works better for me. I think:) Running it with a panasonic-300 projector. I noticed that sometimes in mode1 on it kept switching from video to graphic and film making titles and stuff like that real blurry. In mode 2 this disappears. I am hoping this is the best way to run it. If somebody knows more please let us know:)
     
  3. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    With R1 discs my 3800 invariably recognises correct flags on discs, with R2 it seems to default to G ( graphic ) when set to Auto, if I select Film mode instead it's fine.
    Possibly it's incorrect R2 flags ?
     
  4. thewall

    thewall
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    I think it has something to do with pal running at more frames per second or somehing like that... But I am not sure. Very happy with my player anyway...
     
  5. Jan_Assembler

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    Almost all Pal dvd's are encoded (flagged) as "video".
    So this is the reason, it isn't found as an "film".

    You should all read progressive article in Secrets website.
     
  6. neil housden

    neil housden
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    Thanks guys, not sure whether it's correct that pal dvds are flagged as video. My iscan external line doubler correctly identifies all the dvds as film material. I wouldn't have posted without checking where I thought the problem was. I have also noticed some smearing of picture, but I'll try mode 2.

    Cheers
     
  7. thewall

    thewall
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    How is mode2 working for you neil? It seems to be working better for me but I am not sure.
     
  8. alpha10

    alpha10
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    Hi gringottsdirect, from what you said does that mean you set 'film' when watching R2s??

    Just interested as I had noticed incorrect flagging but never bothered having anything other than 'auto' set

    Cheers
     
  9. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Howdy alpha,
    When watching R2 , mostly rentals, I still use Auto, I notice the little F, V, G, indicator moving around, but mostly it's settled on G.
    If I watch R2 using Film mode, the indicator still moves around.
    In practice can't say I've noticed any difference in PQ. :)
     
  10. durk

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    Im thinking of buying a 2900 but will use it via RGB scart will this flaging prob affect me?
     
  11. Dale Adams

    Dale Adams
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    While I don't have a 2900, it sounds like the 'film', 'graphics', and 'video' indicator nomenclature was lifted directly from the early iScans, which use the same family of deinterlacer (originally from DVDO, now from Silicon Image). Here's a translation of what these really mean:

    - Film: 3:2 pulldown
    - Graphics: 2:2 pulldown
    - Video: 50 or 60 fields/sec interlaced

    For NTSC film content you should get 'film', or 3:2 PD. For PAL film content you should get 'graphics', or 2:2 PD.

    I.e., if you're seeing the 'graphic' indicator on R2 discs then the player is recognizing that the original source of the material on the DVD was film. I don't believe the deinterlacer in this player even looks at the flags on the disc, so it's really irrelevant how the discs are flagged.

    - Dale Adams
     
  12. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    So Denon is correct showing " G " with R2, interesting Dale. :)
     
  13. ISHANTY

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    i really can't understand why people buy denon products when they don't or won't solve the problem from thier previous products now on the 2800 they had problems so why on earth should they be problems with the 2900?for a dvd player costing so much i really don't no why we should buy this product.I think from today everyone on this forum shoud boycott denon products until they get thier act together,then you will see how fast the act upon it why buy iyt if it doesnt work properly.!!
    HAVE YOU ALL TAKEN THE WRONG PILL AGAIN?
     
  14. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    I think you have taken a whole load of dodgy pills.

    The 2900 delivers pal p.scan, sacd, dvd-adio, excellent deinterlacing shipset, great video and audio dacs in a well built design at a great price.

    It suffers from some chroma upsampling issues but it scores an excellent 90 on the secrets shoot out.

    As Dale Adams says, r2 is supposed to be in G mode. The chipset wont even look at the flags anyway!

    So I really don't understand what you are talking about.

    All of denons amps are very highly regarded, with very few if any issues.

    Boycott all denon products? Erm... right.
     
  15. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    I'm really sure it won't hurt your PQ in the slightest.
     
  16. alpha10

    alpha10
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    Cheers gringottsdirect,

    I had a little play over the weekend, and as you say even trying to force 'film' mode the indicator still seems to settle on G, I also couldn't see any PQ difference, so have just left it in auto.

    Worth a go.....

    Cheers
     
  17. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Thanks alpha. :smashin:
     
  18. neil housden

    neil housden
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    I had a play over the weekend and to be honest couldn't tell a difference in mode 1 or 2. What Dale said about pal and 2:2 pulldown being equivalent to G mode makes absolute sense.

    I have to say that I'm pretty happy with the Denon's performance and would not support a general boycott of their products.

    It does make me laugh when people keep dragging up minor issues like the chroma unsampling point, and then they go out and buy ntsc discs with 20% less resolution.

    Stick to pal discs. They have higher resolution, are closer to the 24 frames of film material and you don't have to pay extra for multiregion on your dvd etc. The only benefit to r1 discs that I can see is they turn up a couple of months early. whoop-de-do.

    Cheers for the help guys its put my mind at rest. I'll be keeping my r2 denon.

    Neil
     
  19. CarlB

    CarlB
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    Another benefit to R1 discs is they look vastly better on my 480p Panasonic plasma. R2 PAL discs look bad by comparison due to the additional scaling involved, which results in noticeable solarisation errors on pan shots, as if the display has momentarily dropped to a 256 colour palette.

    So please, no sweeping generalisations on the relative merits of R1 vs R2 discs unless you are armed with all the facts.

    And I'm not even going to mention speedup, BBFC edits and the like...

    PS. I have the Denon 3800 and don't know if the 2900 is exactly the same regards video modes, but on my 3800 there is a major advantage to leaving it in 'Film' mode, not 'Auto'. Read the 'Secrets' article on upsampling, they originally pointed out the problem that the chroma error still exists on some discs when left in 'Auto' mode. Not only that, but I have noticed that strong reds benefit on *ALL* films when in 'Film' upsampling mode.
     
  20. Urotsukidoji

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    Armed with all the facts? In YOUR opinion PAL dosen't look as good as NTSC. Was he supposed to guess that you are not happy with PAL on your plasma?!:rolleyes: Im sure there are lots more "facts" that both of you have missed. In HIS opinion PAL is better. I really think this comment was uncalled for. Put down your argument for NTSC. Instead you say a few words like

    Good argument. Are those ALL the facts?:rolleyes: Speedup is the price to pay to get rid of awful 3:2 processing, and very few people are bothered by the speedup as they have lived with it all their lives from watching any film based material on TV. Indeed, they should prefer PAL because thats what they are used to.
    BBFC edits are rare, and if you really have to see the headbut then you can always buy the PAL R4. neil housden was talking about PAL discs, so why you talked about BBFC edits is beyond me, perhaps you should...

    get your FACTS right:rolleyes:

    On avsforum there a hundreds of posts where Panasonic ED users have compared ED to HD and even though the ED panel is only 480 px all have noticed a huge leap in quality (indeed many have compared the ED to the HD at normal viewing distances and have noticed very minor differences). I don't think one of these hundreds have witnessed a drop to 256 colour, and HD has to be scaled alot more than PAL.

    :rolleyes:
     
  21. CarlB

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    I also run HD 720p XBox through my Panasonic plasma (Tony Hawk 4 - NTSC) and notice a great improvement in quality, it is only PAL 576p that seems to suffer.

    As for the rest of your post, I won't bother. Neil is talking R2 PAL, that's why he mentioned keeping his R2 Denon, not R4 or multiregion. He also mentions the only benefit to R1 discs is their timeliness, so I was pointing out some other attributes that have been well-documented on these forums previously. R1 vs R2, PAL vs NTSC has been done to death here before.
     
  22. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    Agreed. Sui cuique. It's only a matter of time before nathan_silly finds this thread:laugh:
     
  23. ISHANTY

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    so why are you all moaning about if its so good?the 2800 had its problems so if denon had done thier home work the 2900 wouldn't but getting all these people on complaining, doggy pills? maybe so but i haven't got the 2900 i may buy the pioneer they seem to get things right even on thier basic models
     

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