DENON 2800Mkll WARNING!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Blu-rayx, Sep 14, 2002.

  1. Blu-rayx

    Blu-rayx
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    this is what essential home cinema had to say about the 2800MKll

    "Se7en is as good a movie as any to put a player through its paces, with its gloomy, gritty visuals and atmospheric sound. Unfortunately, some of the darker scenes showed up the Denon's limitations, with black backgrounds pixelation and merging on close inspection. We were somewhat surprised to find that a player of this price and pedigree would suffer from occasional digital blocking, ..."

    And:

    "The raid on Victor's aprtment plenty of dark scenery and some quick movement, so we whacked it in only to find some very evident blocking in the background. Luckily, as the SWAT team burst in, the crisp colours and smooth movement, coupled with some great sound effects, took our attention away from the pixels and on to the foreground action, right up until the luckless criminal's shocking fate is revealed."

    so the problem is still there, don't denon ever learn......NO

    dvd
     
  2. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    I think we have evidence here of a reviewer who reads the forum!
    Hats off to him for such an honest review.....difficult to do for a magazine with such a big advertiser and such a headline product.

    2800MkII is the same decoder chip as the old 2800 and as such will pixellate on the same disks, has the chroma bug and is generally a player to avoid in my opinion.

    However, I can tell you that the Se7en disk does pretty much the same (blocking wise) on the 3800, but that many of the other offending disks for the 2800 play very well. It may be that some of the blame lies with the disk itself.

    Regards,
    Ian Guinan
     
  3. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    I'd disagree on that one, the jury is still out on the mkII... it has got the same NSV 108mhz dac as the 3800 so there are new and hopefully better components inside compared to the original 2800.

    just cause it has got the same decoder does not mean 100% that it will pixellate with the same disks.

    agreed though, Seven SE R2 is a bit of a red herring... the problems seem to show up on lots of other players.

    at least the official pal prog scan ratification is a good thing.. specifically mentions the 2800 mkII.
     
  4. mutley

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    i think that if the reviewer had read this forun he wouldn't test any player with se7en cause it's a problematic disk.
    If in a chipped dvd, se7en r1 had that effect i would agree with the review but i doubt that would happen!

    It's like testing a denon or onkyo reveiver dd sound with pearl harbour or jurassic park III! We already know there's a problem with dd decoding so it's not fair to do so!
     
  5. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    being fair, Seven R1 also shows very very slight pixellation on an original 2800 also... nothing like as bad as the R2 though. not sure about other players.

    that review for R4 said as much.

    I did laugh today though when my dealers told me another hifi shop that had tried to hack 6 mkIIs with the original mkI firmware.

    LOL!
    :D :D
     
  6. Blu-rayx

    Blu-rayx
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  7. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    hmm... curiouser and curiouser...
    currently have a non-progressive Sony nsv905 on loan from my dealers till the MR firmware comes out for my mkII.

    tried Seven SE R2 on it... perfect, no artifacts. excellent sharp picture.

    so the disc is NOT a red herring but a perfectly valid test.

    since the mkII and the 3800 both still have problems with this disc - doesn't this mean they will still have problems with other discs? I'd say its likely for both models.

    I'm with dvd now... why are we accepting this c**p off Denon? their players, unlike their amps, are getting to be a bit of a joke.

    if Sony and Toshiba can play all discs perfectly, why dont Denon's?

    this is just plain unacceptable.

    dvd, you are preaching to the converted now.. guess I will be giving my dealer a phone call at some point.
     
  8. Blu-rayx

    Blu-rayx
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    this is what i have been trying to tell all you die hard 2800 & 3800 fans all along.

    thanks for your support martinCO,now you've seen the light :D



    dvd
     
  9. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    dvd, I may be an atheist but I'm now well and truly converted on this issue.

    now the pal progressive ratification appears to be happening (even vaguely), the days of Denon and Arcam having the pal ps field to themselves is coming to an end very very soon.

    if, as now expected, Sony, Pioneer, Toshiba & HKardon all post new firmware and Philips release the 963.. what do we need the Denon players for, apart from artifacts and problems?

    not a lot, apart from headaches.

    consumer products should just work... not have problems that need updates, bug fixes, patches. (I have my computer for this).
    if consumer product has faults, then a company should acknowledge and fix them. quickly... and free of charge.

    Denon have seriously gone down in my estimation on this continued farce.
     
  10. Blu-rayx

    Blu-rayx
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    martinCO,

    what's the latest on you're denon 2800mkll?


    dvd
     
  11. markbuffyfan

    markbuffyfan
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    sorry guys im nbot with this are you saying the pal progressive is enabled on the 2800 mk2 ?

    or the 3800 ??
     
  12. MartinCo

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    there seems to be no firmware yet (publicly)

    some dealers claim to have it for the 2800 or 3800... its not really clear yet.
     
  13. Cambo

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    This thread has made interesting reading as I 'WAS' considering the denon amongst other players. Off the shortlist now I guess.

    What else should I consider. I've already held off until after Christmas and am pretty much busting to buy a new dvd player ASAP.

    Running a VW11ht Pj and would like a player with pal progressive under a grand, but would stretch to a little more if really worth it.

    Cameron.
     
  14. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    there is not that much choice, Cameron.

    the hkardon dvd 25, the philips 963 both between £300-400,
    then you move upto double or more the price with the Denon 3800 and the Arcam dvd 88+(?).

    I'd have serious doubts about any Denons now after the 2800.. ask a 3800 owner, or read the long long threads on firmware.
     
  15. laurie

    laurie
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    Sorry Ian but I totally disagree with you in my case, I just played Seven[R4] AGAIN and I had no problems what so ever watching it at 130" via a Sony 10ht pj on my FANTASTIC DENON 2800!

    cheers laurie :D :D
     
  16. Blu-rayx

    Blu-rayx
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    laurie,


    it's pure luck that you have a 2800 that works with no problems!!



    dvd :)
     
  17. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Hats Off To Laurie ( nearly Del's song :) ), your DVD-2800 works fine, that's good news.

    I have a 2800, tried a couple of 2800 Mk 2, and had a 3800 at home too.

    I have to agree with Martin, Ian and DVD regarding this.

    My tricky discs play fine in a 3800, but not either 2800 versions.
     
  18. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    a working 2800?

    its surely a miracle.

    I await the pigs flying over my local hifi dealers.
    :D


    gringotts, I thought Seven still pixellated in a 3800 - or has this been fixed?
     
  19. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Martin,

    In 3800 Seven looks fine to me everywhere, I've seen Ian post differently, it's fixed in recent players I would say for sure.
    Likewise Mulholland Drive and all the others we've both seen.

    Maybe Ian will confirm ?
     
  20. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    but not fixed on the mkII 2800 presumeably...

    regardless, I've lost faith on Denon's ability to produce any 100% reliable player now though... or at least fix any problems when they come up.

    so many lies from Denon - even now they say there are "no problems" with the 2800.

    at least other firms (Arcam for one) are open on these things and fix them.
     
  21. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Se7en was the first disk I tried with my 3800 and whilst it was better than the 2800 it does still show some pixellation on certain scenes (esp. backgrounds..go to the mammoth 2800 thread for more details).

    I've not checked it recently with more recent firmware, but would be surprised if it was any diffferent as I think this type of artifact is due to a combination of the MPEG decoder chip and the MPEG compression on the particular disk.

    Interestingly enough a debate is going on on AVS about the Infocus projector which is showing pixellation too for some users. The general consensus seems to be saying that the projector is so good it is showing up the deficiencies of DVD compression.

    My 3800 is a huge improvement over my 2800 in all senses, but still I have some issues. I have one of the low serial no. machines and have had a couple of lockups and some disks can take several attempts before the machine will read them..I going for the replacement laser assembly as soon as I can convince Denon Germany to change mine.

    I agree with the comments re. Denon vs. Arcam but for the price I paid for my Denon I would only have had half an Arcam! I believe there is an element of Arcam building into the price upfront the cost of any later enhancements they then have to do and still make a profit ;)

    Regards,
    Ian Guinan

    p.s. nice to see you posting again MartinCo. Still using the laptop?
     
  22. MartinCo

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    hi Ian... Happy Christmas.:)

    thanks for the info. I would be interested if other 3800 owners could comment on whether Seven (and other similar disks) still have problems on their later serial-numbered players.

    your mentions of needing a "replacement laser assembly" do not inspire any renewed confidence in Denon though.:(

    I've got a loaned Sony from my dealers till after christmas so I have my pick of available players in the next month or so - only question is whether I go higher for the Denon 3800 or Arcam dv88+, or lower for the Philips 963 or even the hkardon dvd 25.

    errr... not been away? less to post on Denon related issues though so our paths probably haven't crossed.

    still using the laptop occassionally for a full sit-down session when planned but the convenience of a standalone player prevails usually.
     
  23. gringottsdirect

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    The 2800 Mk 2 s show exactly the same pulsing blockiness as my 2800 with the usual test chapters.
    The 3800 s I've seen play them cleanly, disappointing Ian's 3800 is otherwise.
    Interesting comment with regard to the Infocus projector, it's more or less what a few dealers told me when testing players, the 2800 is so good it reveals problem discs. Until I saw a 3800 playing the same chapters I was almost convinced too.
    The specification of the Philips DVD-963SA looks temptingly good, I notice Uncle Eric is testing one, maybe Gordon and a few others can comment with regard to Arcam Diva 88+ comparison.
     
  24. ajoshi

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    Does anyone know if the same problem exists on 3800 as i am thinking of buying one in Jan 03
     
  25. laurie

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    ajoshi
    As sure as day turns to night I would not be surprised if Denon is now working on the Denon 3800 MkII !! thats why I'm keeping my 2800 until it arrives as I must have the only perfect 2800 the next change over will see me to the grave...well... there's HD-DVD:D
    cheers laurie
     

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