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Denon 2105: What Speakers?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by kay, Jun 19, 2005.

  1. kay

    kay
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    Hey all,

    I recently bought a Denon 2105 and I'm looking around for a set of speakers. I want to get a 5.0 setup (surround but minus the subwoofer) that is good with music and movies.

    I've heard the Wharfedale Evo's and I like their looks and sound a lot, but off a Yamaha receiver so I'm not sure how well they will match up with the Denon?

    I also went and looked at the B&W "budget" ranges (300 and 600 series) but the shop was busy with some alterations to their demo rooms so I couldn't actually listen to them. I keep hearing great things about them, but the 300 locally is about as expensive as the Wharfedale Evo's and in my mind the 300 is a lesser speaker. Is that really so or has the B&W got the edge? As for the 600 series, I'd have to buy them second hand as they're beyond my budget new.

    Any other ideas? Comments on the above? Somebody recommended Polk Audio after I told them I listen to rock/metal a lot.

    I'll probably buy the system piece by piece, not the whole set together.
     
  2. kay

    kay
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    *bump* Anyone? :)
     
  3. skinnyfat

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    Kay

    What is your budget? Are you going to be using for mainly music or movies ?

    I've listened to the polks and IMHO i think you could do better.

    Any particular reason for not wanting a sub ?

    Skinny
     
  4. Crustyloafer

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    I would seriously reconsider getting a subwoofer, you will seriously miss out unless you happen to be budgeting for some seriously high end amplification and some truly full range speakers.
     
  5. skinnyfat

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    I'm inclined to agree kay, unless your wife/girlfriend has threatened you with testicular amputation, consider getting a sub!!

    Skinny
     
  6. kay

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    Um, the main reason for not wanting a sub is I live in a flat and my TV room shares a wall with my neighbours :( So I don't want to bother them too much - I will obviously get a sub when I move out but it's just not worth it before then. I'll just never use it properly if I got a sub now.

    Budget is very stretchy - I could go as far as R10,000 for the speakers, probably even more but spread over a period of time. (That's about GBP800.) I'd like to start small preferably, maybe two bookshelves and a centre. For those three I'd like to spend R5,000 or less.

    I'm playing lots of music and movies, but not multichannel music. So the front stage must be good (at low volumes too!) while the surrounds/rears don't matter that much to me. (I've got some Creative Labs cubes hooked up for rears now and I'm happy with them for movies.)

    BTW I'm very lucky in that my girlfriend's very receptive to my new hobby - she's a movie/music freak as well :)
     
  7. alphabet

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    Hi Kay

    I would suggest you have a look(and listen) to the Mordaunt-Short Avant 900 range of speakers.

    You mentioned that you can go to R10,000 for speakers and Audio Imports(Village Walk) have promotions that will fit your budget - Mains, Centre, Surrounds and sub(if you wish) for R6,400(Stand-mount fronts) - R8,300 (Floorstanding fronts) - R10,930 (Even bigger floorstanding fronts)

    I compared the MS908(Even bigger floorstanding fronts) with B&W 300 and 600's and personally I felt that the MS speakers were way ahead on sound quality and less expensive. I eventually bought the more expensive option(MS908,905,903,309W) and I am really impressed!

    Even living in a flat should not be such a big problem with a sub. All you really have to do is to turn the sub down a bit so you could still hear and feel it. These speakers sound good even at very low volume(-60)!

    Go have a listen at Audio Imports or first check on http://www.audioimports.com under "Promotions" to see if you like.

    Cheers

    Abe
     
  8. kay

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    Cool, I'll definitely go have a listen! Just been really busy lately, no free time at all.

    What type of music did you use to compare them to the B&W?
     
  9. alphabet

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    I used the following when I listened to them: Diana Krall, UB40, Josh Groban, Pink Floyd(Dark side of the Moon), some classical guitar and some Pipe Organ music.

    As you can gather, a wide variety of music.

    I am sure that there is a Audio Counsel branch in JHB as well as they also sell the MS equipment(Same price as Audio Imports) They normally have a wide variety of speakers if you want to compare.

    I was given a Mission centre on loan while waiting for the MS905c to arrive and I was quite impressed with that as well. That may be another speaker you can listen to that won't break your budget either.

    You mentioned that you like rock/metal music. Now based on that I would suggest that you listen to the MS 908s as it has clean highs and mids and a real punching bass. As far as I can remember they go for about R5990 a pair and the MS905 centre is about R1490.

    Any other questions, just shoot! I have gone through the audition stage for 5 months(from January to May this year) before I finally found what I was looking for!
     
  10. kay

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    Great, thanks for sharing! There's an Audio Counsel around the corner from me - they carry MS, B&W, Monitor Audio.
     
  11. skinnyfat

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    Kay

    Have you considered or listened to the Kef Q series. If its good front sound staging you want, IMO at that price range you'd be hard pressed to beat them. I started with the Q1 and Q9c (bookshelves and centre) and they are :D :clap: . The Q1 retail for about R4000.00 a pair and the Q9c is about R3000.00. If you are prepared to take you time as you say, you could get the Q5 or Q7 floor standers later and then move the Q1s to the rear. www.kef.com

    Skinny
     
  12. alphabet

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    I agree with Skinny to some degree. I did audition the Kef Q series as well - Q5, Q1, Q9c and PSW 2500 and yes they did sound good, but I felt that the sub was needed to provide the extra punch as the Q5s on their own does not project a lot of bass.

    Personally I feel that the KEFs will be ideal for instrumental music, but not really suited for rock(without a sub), but once again that is just my opinion.

    The best is still to listen to the different speakers on offer using music that you know and let your ears(and budget!) decide.

    Another factor that you will have to consider if you decide to purchase stand-mount speakers, would be the price of decent stands. These are not cheap unless you have somebody make them up out of angle-iron. What I am getting to is that you may buy a set of speakers at say R4000, but still have to add another R1000+ for decent stands.

    Do keep us up to date on your quest!
     
  13. skinnyfat

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    Kay

    Alphabet is right.

    Personal preferences are what you need to consider. The Kef q5 dont deliver the deepest bass but are no slouches either. I listen to anything from Metalica, megadeth, Ministry to Led Zep, Eagles to Norah Jones to Mozart and Vivaldi (If you can beleive that :) ) and I cannot fault my kefs in any way yet. For movies I feel they are just sublime.

    Skinny
     
  14. kay

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    I wasn't considering the KEF's, partly because I had the impression they cost even more. I should definitely audition them!

    Otherwise that is more or less the plan - a pair of bookshelves plus a centre for the time being. I'm not forgetting about stands, I'll be making a pair myself. Or rather with my dad's help who is in the trade :)

    The only problem with this plan is that I need to fill quite a space with sound, so bookshelves might not cut it. I don't know. Like I mentioned, I'm not looking for loud volumes at the moment, just an acurate speaker that I can enjoy.

    And when I say I listen mainly to rock/metal, it doesn't mean I don't appreciate the finer styles of music - I like jazz and softer rock too. And I'm not a SPL/bass junkie :)

    So my list as of now includes: M-S 900, B&W DM300/600 (600 probably only as second hand buys), KEF Q Series (though I'm not convinced I want to spend as much $$), and the Wharfedale Evo.

    What about the Mission m30 series?
     
  15. kay

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    You posted while I was typing my reply :)

    That sounds a lot like me, I must say! I'm not looking for house-shaking bass (one can always add a sub for that), more accuracy. And I listen to anything from Metallica to Aphex Twin, from Beethoven to Massive Attack...
     
  16. alphabet

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    As I mentioned before, I was given a Mission M3C1 centre speaker whilst the MS905c was ordered and it was not half bad. The salesperson at Audio Counsel also said that he felt the Mission M30 series was a good product for a lower budget.

    Audio Counsel should have them as well, so set some time aside and go audition, but do make sure that you at least listen to the MS908s. I listened to some instrumental(classical guitar) music last night at low levels and was once again amazed by the detail from these speakers!
     
  17. alphabet

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    Kay. I have seen another option although you will have to go listen to them.

    HiFi Corp is selling Wharfedale Diamond 8 and Xarus speakers for R3000 - Front, centre, surround. I have not heard them allthough I did have a Wharfedale sub and centre at some stage, but it should do no harm to listen to them.

    Another option, sort of as a stop gap, is a Yamaha 6.1 speaker set for R1200-also HiFi Corp. This consists of a powered sub and 6 satelites. They sound better than expected although not something I would go for, but I suppose that for a flat this could work. Besides this could keep you going whilst you save up for better speakers.

    Anyway just some suggestions.
     
  18. skinnyfat

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    Avoid HIFI corp at all costs !!!!!!!

    They have what they call 'parallell imports' and 'seconds'. My friend (and neighbour) works for Yamaha (shipping dept.) and says that Yamaha SA will not back any product sold through Hifi corp. hence the reason hifi corp do ALL repairs themselves. I made the grave error of buying my first DVD player through them and took it back 24 hrs later never to return!!

    Skinny
     
  19. alphabet

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    I do agree with you! I have had a similiar experience with a DVD player about two years ago, but I must add that I had a good experience with them as well.

    To get back to my suggestion, yes only go to them if you really don't have any other choice.
     
  20. kay

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    I also saw the new HiFi special :)

    The Xarus are party speakers - big on SPL but not much in the way of quality sound. The Diamond's are another story altogether, I've heard them and they're absolutely awesome for the money.

    Have a look at this link re: Diamond 8's:

    http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/main-speaker/wharfedale/PRD_130245_1594crx.aspx

    I also noticed the Yamaha special, but I've already got a similar Creative 4.1 system from which I'm just using the cubes at the moment and it's fine for movies. So there's no point getting the Yamaha, I'd much rather get the Diamond's if I was getting a "temporary solution".

    The Diamond package is very tempting in that, for R3k, I can get a full system that will more than satisfy me for now, and I can get it *NOW*. The alternative is to just get two bookshelves and maybe a centre and use the Creative cubes for surrounds. And I somehow think that, even though the Diamond's are nowhere near the performance of the KEF's or MS's, for my needs now they'll be excellent and they're so cheap I can always sell them later without losing much. I was a bit worried that they would be way inferior to my receiver but I can see lots of people run them off NAD and Marantz amps and they say with enough power in reserve, the Diamond's really sing.

    I know about HiFi Corp., my dad made the big mistake of buying some components from them ages ago. Granted, they repaired it and what not, but during the last year of the 5 years warranty half the kit went back there about 3 or 4 times. So yeah, I know they're grey importers and service the stuff themselves (and often can't fix it), but I'm not so worried buying things like speakers or cables. I also have a buddy that works at the Fourways store so I can count on him to help out if I have troubles.

    So yeah, if I weigh my options:

    * I can have the Diamond 8.4/8.1/8.C package now and start saving for a projector ;)
    * I can have a pair of, e.g. B&W DM303s or M-S 902s, right now and start saving for the rest
    * I can wait and buy a full set of B&W/M-S/KEF's in 2-3 months

    The Diamond package begins to look like a very good proposition.

    On a related note, I want to buy my dad a DVD player - something really cheap because it's only going to feed a Sony 54cm TV via the composite input. Any suggestions? I'm thinking of the Panasonic DVD-S29 which seems to read every DVD format known to man and has progressive scan (his TV doesn't have it but just in case).

    EDIT: Another off-topic note. Do you guys think a dedicated South African Hi-Fi/Video forum would be viable? I know a couple of buddies of mine who would visit it, I'm sure there would be many more. It's nice to chat to other "local" people ;)
     
  21. alphabet

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    As you say, Kay, there are lots of good reviews about the Diamond 8s on the web. I have also heard that the Diamond 9s are even a few notches above them and you can also get your buddy to demo them to you. As far as I know there is not such a huge price difference either.

    The Panasonic DVD player should do fine, but as far as I know it does not play DVD+R disks, but rather confirm this. Another option would be the Pioneer DV-373.

    It would be interesting to have a dedicated SA forum as I am sure that a lot of subscribers to these forums are actually from SA.
     
  22. kay

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    They had a set of Diamond 9.4/9.CC/9.1 for sale last month, also at R3k. I nearly bought it but I didn't have much cash left after I bought the receiver. Same set now costs R4.5k, I'm also considering getting just the 9.1 bookshelves at R1.4k for a pair.

    I think you get more with the D8's at the current price - dual drivers in the 8.4 vs. single drive in the 9.4, and also the 9.CC is one of those tiny "plasma" centre speakers whereas the 8.C has 5" drivers in a bigger enclosure.

    The S29 plays DVD+R/RW and DVD-R/RW as well as DVD-RAM. Not bad. I think that's what it will be.
     
  23. alphabet

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    Its seems like you are getting closer and closer to making a decision and purchase! I know the feeling!
     
  24. skinnyfat

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    Hi guys

    I think a local forum would be a good idea (any of you web developers??? :D ). Kay, the best advice I can offer you is not to SETTLE on anything. In my experience I have settled for gear that was not necessarily what I wanted but cheaper and meant I could get it straight away and I end up being unhappy with it in the long run.(My amp is a good example.....and all the other kit I've sold and replaced along the way). After all that I would suggest that you spend as much as your budget can allow and get your kit at a slower pace. It takes longer but the rewards are very gratifying. Just a thought though.

    Skinny
     
  25. kay

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    I have a host and know how to set everything up, I'm about to register avforums.za.net - any better suggestions? :) Hopefully I can have it running within a day or two.

    As for not settling - I agree with you there. I know too well the feeling of regret when you spend lots of bucks and it's doesn't live up to your expectations. Rather spend even more but be satisfied... having said that, if I do get the Wharfedale's it will only be if I really enjoy them.
     
  26. skinnyfat

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    Kay

    Wonderful idea!!

    Looks like we have moderators in the three major cities already :D
    I've dabbled in web design myself but by no means a pro so can help a little ;)
    Have abode Go Live, Macromedia (full suite), Frontpage

    On the warfdales, I'm by no means telling you not to go for them, just to audition as many as possible. Paradigm is another option to consider. My friend bought his Monitor 11's three weeks ago (R9000.00/pair) and they sound good. Lots of bass. You could consider the monitor 5 or monitor 7's.
    Just thought I'd throw in the proverbial spanner :D

    Skinny
     
  27. kay

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    Yep, moderators are sorted ;) I was having some trouble with the database on Friday, if I get some time today I'll look into it. Should be ready soon :)

    I listened to the Mordaunt-Short Avant 908 and the B&W DM309 yesterday (off a Cambridge Audio 640A/640C amp and CD player combo) and I enjoyed the B&W's a *LOT*. I'd say my list is at the moment 1) B&W 300, 2) Wharfedale Evo, 3) M-S.

    I'd have to listen to the Wharfedale's again using the same music, because they are also the best looker from the bunch. The M-S just did not grab me for some reason, other than their stunning looks.

    They didn't have any KEF's at the local Audio Counsel :( Who sells the Paradigm's?
     
  28. skinnyfat

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    Not too sure who sells Paradigm in JHB, Mod n' Sound keep them in DBN. I will check for you...

    Good luck on the database and let us know :smashin:

    Skinny
     
  29. alphabet

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    I have gone through the same thing as Skinnyfat mentioned! Bought some equipment because it was all I could afford at the time. Everytime I was disappointed with something and eventually had to replace.

    At least now I have settled on something I like! Then again it does not mean everyone likes it, but that is what makes the human race so interesting.

    The local site is a brilliant idea!
     
  30. greg_SA

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    Hi Kay,

    AudioVision supply KEF... Balanced Audio are the local distributors.

    One thing to remember... AudioVision prices are very negotiable!

    Cheers
    Greg
     

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