Deno AVC A1SE Stereo playback quality questions

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by PFM, May 5, 2001.

  1. PFM

    PFM
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    I am looking to purchase the A1Se (in the UK) this month, but I have some reservations over the amps ability to reproduce good old fashioned audiophile stereo. I have done a considerable amount of research on this product & already own an Arcam Alpha 10 (some of you may remember my previous threads on similar topics.

    This is my proposed setup with the A1SE...

    Sony 7700 (multi reg. DVD) & Qed SR75 SPOFC digital coax interconnect.
    and
    Denon 1015 cd player & Qed SR75 SPOFC digital coax interconnect.

    into the Denon A1SE coax inputs

    with a QED silver spiral interconnect out of the Denon (used as a DAC/pre-amp to an Arcam Alpha 10 amplifier (effectively using it as a power amp with an option to switch the denon out of the loop) through to my speakers(to be soon be upgraded) Acoustic Energy AE109's using QED 4x4 biwire.

    Will the internal dacs (on the A1SE) improve the sound over the 1015's internal dacs or will the quality deteriorate because of the extra A1SE/Arcam loop?

    Please help as I'm at a location where a good demo room is a long long way away

    This is part of a major system upgrade and although I have considered a Tag AVR32 pre/power combo it is a little to far out of my price range.

    Please please help....
     
  2. Matty N

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    I don't know much about the Arcam, but I do have the A1SE. As you probably know, the DAC's on the A1SE are about as good as it gets at the mo (24/192), and these operate in a dual differential configuration when working with PCM stereo. This means that the DAC's operate with 4 on each channel, giving eight in total. This improves the dynamic range (but increases the noise - actual gain in db is approx. reduced by half due to additional noise). In addition, the DSP chips are capable of upsampling the 16bit PCM to 24bit and applying a form of anti-quantisation distortion, thus smoothing the analogue output. THis is known as their AL24 (ALPHA-24) mode and is indicated by a blue light on the top left of the display. With this engaged, a sine wave presented in the analogue dimension, when digitised and reconstructed as analogue again will have a waveform much more approximated to the actual original sine wave, thus the quantisation 'steps' are less marked and a smoother signal is generated.

    Whether this sounds better than what you are currently using is debateable, but to my mind this is the best integrated Home Cinema Amplifier I have ever heard (and I've heard a lot) and by comparison to others positively shines in two channel stereo.

    The amps on board are obviously geared towards Home Cinema and using your audiophile amplifier may be more akin to your ear. Suffice to say, I didn't realise how badly mixed and recorded some of my CD's were until I got this amplifier.

    For me, it represented the best compromise I could find (not that I regard it as being a compromise!!)

    Matt

    [ 05-05-2001: Message edited by: Matty N ]
     
  3. Reiner

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    Why not go the DAVE + 10P3 route instead to maintain stereo quality?
    That is if you can live without Ex/Es and Neo:6 ...
     
  4. PFM

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    The DAVE & 10P3 route I dont believe will offer me the cinema experience I want (Arcam Hifi does cinema in a kind of half hearted way).

    Although I do believe that the Arcam will give me better imaging (stereo) than the Denon. my question is...

    Am I correct in my assumption (using the Arcam as a power amp for stereo only) or will I lose quality through adding the extra signal loop (Denon pre amp etc...) :confused:
     
  5. Salem Saberhagen

    Salem Saberhagen
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    I got my AVC-A1SE on April 25th, I have over 200 DVD's and as many laserdiscs, however, since getting the new amp I have hardly watched anything, as the first thing I did was try it out as a stereo amp and I have re-discovered my CD collection!

    Much has been said, here and elsewhere, about Denon's DAC's and the AL24 procesing and it all works fine. However, for my money the jaw dropping sound quality was obtained when connecting the analog outputs from the CD player ( Pioneer PDR-05 ) through a pair of LAT International IC80 interconnects and selecting the Denon's Pure Direct mode.

    In this mode, all digital, video, tone and display circuits are switched out and the sound quality is amazing.

    I can whole heartedly reccomend the Denon, it finally offers what we have been talking about and waiting for over many years now; exceptional home cinema performance without compromising on the music front.

    But don't take my word for it, you simply have to hear it in your own home, with your own gear. Even if you still prefer stereo from your Arcam, you will have got yourself the biggest bargain on the market for surround sound ( trust me )

    Any loop through other equipment, such as you metion, is likely to allow unwanted noise and / or signal degradation into the equation and IMHO is best avoided, however, I truly beleive the Denon sounds so good you may find the Arcam just has to go...

    sorry about the long post, just passionate!

    Salem
     
  6. Matty N

    Matty N
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    Ditto !!!
     
  7. PFM

    PFM
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    Thanks folks,

    In another forum (Denon AVR5800/A1SE)I was told by a chap that he/she had the amp bi-amped using to Poa 10( denon power amp) and suggested that this aross his front three blew absolutely everthing away (as an alternate to the arcam)

    Just might have to look into that. :D
     
  8. Tim Ashdown

    Tim Ashdown
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    I'm also thinking of bi-amping my front left & right with the poa-t10 power amp. Rather than buy multiple t10's, I want to try and combine the power amp with the onboard power of the A1se. Anyone know if this is posible. I'm sure it is, I just can't figure out how you would connect the two together. Has anybody heard this and do you think it would make a difference to THX speakers. I want to improve the musical quality rather than the Home cinema aspect.
     
  9. PFM

    PFM
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    HMMM.

    Big consideration to look into.

    I'll try and find out some details. :)
     
  10. Tim Ashdown

    Tim Ashdown
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    Thanks PFM, thats much appreciated.
     
  11. Guest

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    PFM,

    I recently got an A1SE (to replace an Arcam amp!) and am using it in conjunction with both an Arcam DVD player and Arcam CD player. I run the DVD through the digital output, and I'm using the A1SEs on-board DACs for the CD (as they are better than the Arcam ones!). The sound is incredible, especially in Pure Direct mode, and I have to say that this is the first amp I have listened to that does a creditable "audiophile" job of 2-ch stereo. Running it bi-wired into a pair of Nautilus 804s the staging and detailing are superb.

    Go ahead and enjoy, and chop in the Alpha 10 for some more kit. Or, (here's food for thought) use it to power a second set of speakers in a different room, as the A1SE can run as a pre-amp for a second room/power amp.
     
  12. MarkB

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    Tim,
    I don't know much about bi-amping but I believe that if you had the US version of the AVC-A1SE (the AVR-5800) you could use the surround back speakers for multizone (effectively you could select an analogue stereo feed) to use as your bi-amp. The AVC-A1SE does not enable multizone from the surround back amplifiers, so I don't know if it is possible.
    Perhaps it would be nice to buy a second AVC-A1SE and bi-amp all the channels!
    Mark
     
  13. Tim Ashdown

    Tim Ashdown
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    Tried an experiment. I've got a pair of Mission X-Space NXT speakers. They are powered by the supplied sub. Plugged them into the front left & right pre outs and can confirm that they worked simultaneously with the front Kef speakers. In theory, this means you could connect a power amp and use the existing amplification. My dads got a pair of Musical Fidelity XA-50's and I've got the day off, So I'll let you know. Second problem is the Kef TDM23's are not biwireable. Could I damage the amp or speakers by connecting two runs of cable into the one speaker terminal. I think I'll try my dads Castle harlechs first.
     
  14. PFM

    PFM
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    Tim

    Not so sure about the quality aspect of running 2 cable lengths to the same binding posts (effectively using the same crossover) also the cables would have to be of identical length & make to avoid any distortion as a result of differences in cable purity, design etc.

    Ive not yet purchased my A1SE yet as Im redecorating but I check out as promised the biamping poser you spoke of.

    The only problem I can see is possible if there are any differences in power between the Poa-t10 and A1se but I check it out

    I think Ill hang on to the Alpha 10 for a while & see how it holds up against the Denon. If the Denon beatss it hands down in 2 channel mode then I can see a new sub W. on the horizon :)
     

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