Demo Feedback - Naim Uniti Atom/Lyngdorf TDAI 1120/Hegel H120

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The whole Hi Res lure is complete marketing nonsense. Don’t waste your time on it.

A well-produced 16bit 44kHz signal will sound superb. You can’t hear better than this, which is why it was chosen for the standard for CD.

I sell the best hifi systems in the world and can use any content to make them sound great. The vast majority of content I use is CD quality.
 

larkone

Distinguished Member
All internal processing (xovers/RP etc) on a Lyngdorf amp happen at 24/96.
24/192 is emperors new clothes anyway, way beyond the range of human hearing and the real art is finding anything that was truly recorded at this resolution and not just upscaled from lower resolutions.
 

mascholes

Active Member
Here's another article which expands on Chromecast Built In -

 

pfaz

Standard Member
Took the plunge and ordered a new TDAI 1120 from the dealer today which really showed the value of the home demo given the problems I'd seen in-store. If you recall the problem there appeared to be low volume output when streaming from Roon and the dealer not being aware of the input sensitivity adjustment in settings.

Probably stupid question but is it possible to abuse/damage anything if this was set to max 24db setting with a regular level input as surely it puts max power output at a much lower point on the volume control? Does this mean output volume can be set beyond the product's spec or does it stop increasing volume at a point lower down on the volume indicator?
 

DT79

Well-known Member
Took the plunge and ordered a new TDAI 1120 from the dealer today which really showed the value of the home demo given the problems I'd seen in-store. If you recall the problem there appeared to be low volume output when streaming from Roon and the dealer not being aware of the input sensitivity adjustment in settings.

Probably stupid question but is it possible to abuse/damage anything if this was set to max 24db setting with a regular level input as surely it puts max power output at a much lower point on the volume control? Does this mean output volume can be set beyond the product's spec or does it stop increasing volume at a point lower down on the volume indicator?
With a digital input I can’t see how you could cause anything untoward by increasing the input sensitivity to the max as it’s all happening in the digital domain and the inbound stream is of a quantified amplitude, so the amp ‘knows’ what it’s doing.

On an analogue input it is possible to overload the ADC and create distortion. I know, because I unwitting did it. Doesn’t cause any harm, you just get distortion on dynamic peaks.
 

craigd

Well-known Member
Took the plunge and ordered a new TDAI 1120 from the dealer today which really showed the value of the home demo given the problems I'd seen in-store. If you recall the problem there appeared to be low volume output when streaming from Roon and the dealer not being aware of the input sensitivity adjustment in settings.

Probably stupid question but is it possible to abuse/damage anything if this was set to max 24db setting with a regular level input as surely it puts max power output at a much lower point on the volume control? Does this mean output volume can be set beyond the product's spec or does it stop increasing volume at a point lower down on the volume indicator?

I don’t understand why you are having this problem. Even -10dB on the volume dial is really loud for me via Roon and I use volume levelling which tends to reduce the volume a few dB.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Took the plunge and ordered a new TDAI 1120 from the dealer today which really showed the value of the home demo given the problems I'd seen in-store. If you recall the problem there appeared to be low volume output when streaming from Roon and the dealer not being aware of the input sensitivity adjustment in settings.

Probably stupid question but is it possible to abuse/damage anything if this was set to max 24db setting with a regular level input as surely it puts max power output at a much lower point on the volume control? Does this mean output volume can be set beyond the product's spec or does it stop increasing volume at a point lower down on the volume indicator?

As Craig says, I can’t help thinking there’s something else amiss somewhere. +24dB is immense.
 

pfaz

Standard Member
As Craig says, I can’t help thinking there’s something else amiss somewhere. +24dB is immense.
I’m not using 24db, I found 10db about right for airplay. I think the tv hdmi output is lower though so might need a bit more. I just wanted to know if it’s possible to cause a problem by setting this too high and overloading the amp.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I see the point.

Now I’m wondering how far away you sit. Sounds like it might be next door...:rotfl:

-15 is the very most I can stand from airplay and that’s way too loud.

-25 is comfortable loud.

Both with airplay simply at the 0dB level.

I think I must be missing something here...?
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
Shot in the dark - is the pc/Mac master volume turned down. With Spotify you can control the volume in the app, with the windows system volume and with the amp. I typically set the app and system volume to 100% and let the amp do the work.
 

pfaz

Standard Member
I see the point.

Now I’m wondering how far away you sit. Sounds like it might be next door...:rotfl:

-15 is the very most I can stand from airplay and that’s way too loud.

-25 is comfortable loud.

Both with airplay simply at the 0dB level.

I think I must be missing something here...?

you must have hawk ears👂!

I just tested, airplay from phone, amp more or less factory reset (so 0db on the input) and I'd say -25 is background music level, -12 is reasonable but I'd probably have it around -9/-10 without describing it as uncomfortable. Maybe a combination of speaker sensitivity of the Kef R3 and material given the huge variety of differences track to track.
 

pfaz

Standard Member
Shot in the dark - is the pc/Mac master volume turned down. With Spotify you can control the volume in the app, with the windows system volume and with the amp. I typically set the app and system volume to 100% and let the amp do the work.
This is from an iPhone and the phone volume controls amp volume. I see in settings, "streaming players can control volume" which is on by default so i've left as is.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
you must have hawk ears👂!

I just tested, airplay from phone, amp more or less factory reset (so 0db on the input) and I'd say -25 is background music level, -12 is reasonable but I'd probably have it around -9/-10 without describing it as uncomfortable. Maybe a combination of speaker sensitivity of the Kef R3 and material given the huge variety of differences track to track.

Have to say that I'm also surprised that you're struggling for volume. Your speakers are 87dB sensitivity and that should be plenty for the 1120 to drive them to very loud levels from a digital input without having to increase input sensitivity on the 1120. I know I have a different amp, but for instance on my 3400 driving my 85dB sensitivity ATC speakers and sitting 5m away from them, background music level would be around -35dB on my amp, typical listening volume would be anywhere from -22dB to -10dB depending on how loud the CD or streaming track has been mastered, and very loud (when the rest of the family is out) would be anywhere from -15dB to 0dB again depending on the mastering of the source.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
This is from an iPhone and the phone volume controls amp volume. I see in settings, "streaming players can control volume" which is on by default so i've left as is.

I have that option permanently switched off on my amp. A few times when I first trialled Lyngdorf amps, I forgot about it and got some nasty volume surprises. Personally I always use the Lyngdorf app or my remote to control volume and turn all sources to max volume. Never had an issue since I did this.
 

Dave-Gray

Active Member
I’m not using 24db, I found 10db about right for airplay. I think the tv hdmi output is lower though so might need a bit more. I just wanted to know if it’s possible to cause a problem by setting this too high and overloading the amp.
Very intresting. I have the same issue with using an 1120 and Roon. I've also increased input sensitivity to 10db which sounds about right.
 

larkone

Distinguished Member
1.4.0 / July 2021
Streaming updates:
- Prepared for future Spotify update.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
Hmmm... do Lyngdorf know something about Spotify’s alleged cd quality upgrade timing that we don’t?

Well Spotify may be giving advance data to manufacturers. Similar to what Apple and Microsoft do for App developers I think.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
Based on some stuff I've seen in other Forums, it does look like Spotify HiFi might be nearing a release, at least in some countries.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Based on some stuff I've seen in other Forums, it does look like Spotify HiFi might be nearing a release, at least in some countries.

I hope so Steve, It’s taking forever, and it’s so massively overdue anyway.

I’m still a bit ambivalent about any serious sound quality increase, but I’ll take every little bit we can get.

It all helps.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
I hope so Steve, It’s taking forever, and it’s so massively overdue anyway.

I’m still a bit ambivalent about any serious sound quality increase, but I’ll take every little bit we can get.

It all helps.

Yeah, no idea how it's going to sound, but it's at least another option. I still haven't seen any definitive pricing on it yet. I think one rumour was that it was going to be £15.99, but that would be really crazy on their part imho. Time will tell.

There was an updated firmware for the 3400 too today, but no mention of Spotify, so the 3400 may just follow whatever the 1120 gets. Again, time will tell.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Yeah, no idea how it's going to sound, but it's at least another option. I still haven't seen any definitive pricing on it yet. I think one rumour was that it was going to be £15.99, but that would be really crazy on their part imho. Time will tell.

There was an updated firmware for the 3400 too today, but no mention of Spotify, so the 3400 may just follow whatever the 1120 gets. Again, time will tell.

That would be a whopping jump... and untenable. I hope.

If only because of the absurd length of time it has taken them, I’d expect Spotify to absorb any and all extra operating costs, especially for current customers.

But an opportunity to grab extra money is rarely passed up in our shiny world, so I imagine there will be an increase.

An extra 60% though?
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
Just a rumour Paul and I agree with you. Maybe a small increase, but Apple's recent move (and Amazon's) may pressure them into minimising price increases, if any.
 

hestepare

Member
The problem is that Amir (ASR) measured it incorrectly. TDA (true digital amplifiers) are not like other Class D amplifiers and when measuring them you must:

Turn off ICC

Use AUX-0025 filter in front of your Audio Precision unit

Measure a single channel at a time

........then you will get the measurments you expect.
Sorry to revive this old post, but out of curiosity: What would be reasonable measurement values to expect?
 

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