Deep Space Nine: A Re-evaluation.

brian s

Distinguished Member
Brian - I have never actually seen what a Laserdisc actually looks like. Is it just like a giant DVD/Blu-Ray?

It's pretty much like that. They're the same size as a vinyl LP.

IMG_20200901_123207.jpg


Bri
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that!

The writers claim that it's not based on "The Magnificent Seven" at all - hah!

I don't why there's so much moaning about the Ferengi episodes as I always enjoyed them. Zek was an absolute joy, Brunt was always such a creep, I loved Rom and Zek's giant personal assistant always pulled some cracking faces in the background.:D

It was probably based on The Seven Samurai.

:D
Bri
 

Earthscope

Well-known Member
"Voyager" had the best opening credits of any of the shows, in my opinion. It also had a deliberate design aesthetic - from emerging from the light, going into the dark and back to the light again. Check out this 4K remake:



And the makers of "DS9" agreed with you; so much so that they remixed the theme tune making it slightly faster, added a bass pulse and made it more energetic. Here's another 4K remake:



Glorious!:D
WOW!!! :love:

Amazing! And why am I crying watching these? 😢

Always my most beloved of the Star Trek shows, DS9 & Voyager..

Just brings back great memories of rushing to HMV to buy the latest VHS 📼 when they came out then on DVD later. Getting home turning all the lights out late at night and watching with that giant feeling of I am HOME...🥰
GLORIOUS...
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
I know the Ferengi episodes are quite decisive you either love them or hate them. Actually until I started reading Reddit and the BBS Star Trek I assumed everyone loved those episodes.

Me personally love those episodes can't think of a single bad one. Little Green Men has to be one of the most fun episodes of Trek ever.
Do you mean "divisive"?

I don't read around as much as you do, my main source of opinion is IMDB and the Ferengi episodes seem to be hated there.

I think they're fun, entertaining and usually enjoyable. :)
 

scrowe

Distinguished Member
I know the Ferengi episodes are quite decisive you either love them or hate them. Actually until I started reading Reddit and the BBS Star Trek I assumed everyone loved those episodes.

Me personally love those episodes can't think of a single bad one. Little Green Men has to be one of the most fun episodes of Trek ever.

was that the ‘Roswell’ one. I remember crying tears when I think they were tapping their heads/ears thinking the universal communicator was malfunctioning, and the airficrce personnel copying, thinking they were trying to communicate.
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
Do you mean "divisive"?

I don't read around as much as you do, my main source of opinion is IMDB and the Ferengi episodes seem to be hated there.

I think they're fun, entertaining and usually enjoyable. :)

oppps yep an autocorrect mistake. I read around about Star Trek a lot, more then is good for my sanity. Some people find the Ferengi a joke and don’t like the humour and then the usual it’s not Star Trek follows.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Quick update: still feeling a bit lost without my nightly "DS9" fix, so I watched "The House Of Quark" again last night - and it was still totally wonderful!:D

@brian s - rewatch the show!!🖖
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
Derek I'm too busy watching loads of new stuff from my unwatched pile at the moment. That includes Voyager. I'm unlikely to go back to the one season I have on DVD any time soon but I should see if my Laserdisc player still works. If it does I may give the pilot episode another watch.

Bri
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
I just had a quick look and there are quite a few Ferengi episodes, I don't think there is a bad one among them:


The Nagus

Rules of Acquisition

Rivals

Profit and Loss

House of Quark

Prophet Motive

Family Business

Little Green Men

Bar Association

Body Parts

Looking For Par'Mach in All the Wrong Places

Business as Usual

Ferengi Love Songs

The Magnificent Ferengi

Who Mourns for Morn?

Profit and Lace

It's Only a Paper Moon

The Emperor's New Cloak

The Dogs of War
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
I started re watching random episodes of DS9 back in December, didn’t realise how many from S6 and S7 I hadn’t seen before. One episode I found to be simply amazing is Far beyond the stars. Very deep and probably wouldn’t even be shown on BBC/Sky now without a few bleeps put in! I love these kind of episodes. Also seeing the cast without all the make up is quite cool!
 

taposh

Active Member
Great write up from Derek in the OP. Really nice read and I share a lot of the same sentiments. I too am revisiting DS9 since it was first broadcast. I've only ever watched a handful of cherry-picked episodes in the intervening 20 years or so.

My intro to DS9 was very haphazard. This was the days before Sky proliferation and affordability so had to cherry pick episodes to purchase. I think I also had to wait for the BBC2 broadcasts and catch up. And then I think I followed it on Sky from S4 or 5. And retrospectively caught up BBC pace. I am now currently a few episodes into S7.

The bravery in the breadth of the writing was ground breaking. Entire story arcs over a series' lifespan is commonplace now but virtually unheard of back then, especially for a mainstream, episodic series. My memory of the time-spans of the different arcs is very skewed. I'd forgotten the klingon then dominion wars lasting over 4 seasons and how short a time Dax and Worf were actually together.

Some things that struck me:
The Klingon episodes with Kor, mirror universe and the tribbles episodes - over its' run DS9 had more call backs to TOS than TNG.
I appreciate the Cardassian/Bajoran Nazi undertones better now. Brilliantly written that this could still happen in the Federation utpopia.
ST has always had atheist connotations but DS9 put religion front and centre. Although explained away as wormhole aliens it was interesting to see how Bajorans needed their faith to keep going.
What a brilliant episode 'Far Beyond the Stars' is. How it directly tackled racism and how unfortunately the message still resounds today.

What has struck me more than anything is how much I've missed the characters. I'm sad they were never given the chance for a film or even TV follow up some years down the line. I always enjoyed Brooks portrayal as Sisko. Sisko was the lead DS9 needed, remembering at the outset DS9 was meant to be a backwards posting for him. I also found Terry Farrell utterly charming as Dax, more so than since first watching. Thru the 7 seasons the writers tried to flesh out each main character. Compare lack of progress with e.g. Dr Crusher.

I'd meant to re-watch this for a number of years. Having it on tap on Netflix has facilitated that. What has always stayed with me is the essence of the above - how they pushed it beyond just an episode of the week type series. I've not seen Voyager since its' broadcast either. One that that always disappointed me with Voyager was how to me now the writing was a retrograde step. I may be brave and try and slog that out and see if my memory holds true !
 

pocketshaver

Novice Member
I watched most of the series as it aired in the US market, the issue with DS9 is that it violated alot of star trek canon in the ways of starfleets rules about interfering in other cultures, as well as violating various standards and rules created by Roddenberry.

I used to say DS9 was teh worst trek, then discovery and picard and the animated below decks came out.
 

scrowe

Distinguished Member
I watched most of the series as it aired in the US market, the issue with DS9 is that it violated alot of star trek canon in the ways of starfleets rules about interfering in other cultures, as well as violating various standards and rules created by Roddenberry.

I used to say DS9 was teh worst trek, then discovery and picard and the animated below decks came out.

Whilst I am sure there were examples of that, the 'interfering' rules you are referring to in-story are Federation rules. Deep Space Nine was deliberately set on a Space Station near Bajor who were not Federation Members, and so Starfleet Personnel were essentially a peacekeeping force to help Bajor recover from occupation. It deliberately wanted to tell stories in the wider Star Trek universe as a parallel to see what happened outside of Federation membership.
 

techted

Standard Member
I loved DS9 when it first came out. And am currently watching it again with my 12 year old son who is seeing it for the first time and he is enjoying it quite a lot. The moral ambiguity makes for great discussion points after watching. He gets quite emotionally charged with a lot of the episodes. Kai Winn really boils his blood :)

I only appreciated the Ferengi and Lwaxana Troi in DS9. The Cardassians are basically Nazis in space and Nazis always make for good bad guys. Garak is a treasure. Kira is one of the best female Trek characters for me. Bashir I initially found boring but then he had the eugenics story ark and that was quite interesting. I felt the Founders were the most dangerous enemy the Federation faced as they were able to unravel it from within, very unlike previous baddies. DS9 broke a lot of the rules of Trek - bringing back religion and money for example - and I imagine this is a reason why some viewers don’t like it. Personally the fact that it is very different from the Treks that came before it is what made it interesting for me.

There were some things of course I didn’t like but for me there were more things to like than not and that probably puts me in the minority so am glad to find a few Trekkers who like it too :)
 

scrowe

Distinguished Member
DS9 broke a lot of the rules of Trek - bringing back religion and money for example - and I imagine this is a reason why some viewers don’t like it
It's a common mistake that people make. Star Trek is a show about Starfleet which is the galactic peacekeeping arm of The Federation, which comprises planets and races that have agreed to abide by common idealisms. But the Galaxy outside of Federation Membership still has money, and morally questionable values, deeds. Citing religion is an interesting one, because I don't think religion is done away with inside the Federation, albeit they are very science-heavy. But certainly Bajor is NOT a member of the Federation, nor is Cardassia. Starfleet have agreed to 'police' Bajor and the surrounding space, whilst they recover from the occupation by Cardassia, so Strafleet is delivering humanitarian aid, and of course there is some willingness from Bajor to join the Federation over time, which Starfleet will also monitor. And there is no idea that Bajor would have to forego their religious beliefs to join the Federation.
 

VisionMan

Distinguished Member
And there is no idea [no intention] that Bajor would have to forego their religious beliefs to join the Federation.

Indeed and I agree. After all, the Commander himself was a focus of religious belief,

a fact which Kai Winn hated, which also turned out to be true.

Many Star Trek fans went ballistic when Deep Space 9 was announced, because it wasn't set on a Starship and so they declared it wasn't Star Trek. Oh boy, were they wrong.
 

techted

Standard Member
It's a common mistake that people make. Star Trek is a show about Starfleet which is the galactic peacekeeping arm of The Federation, which comprises planets and races that have agreed to abide by common idealisms. But the Galaxy outside of Federation Membership still has money, and morally questionable values, deeds. Citing religion is an interesting one, because I don't think religion is done away with inside the Federation, albeit they are very science-heavy. But certainly Bajor is NOT a member of the Federation, nor is Cardassia. Starfleet have agreed to 'police' Bajor and the surrounding space, whilst they recover from the occupation by Cardassia, so Strafleet is delivering humanitarian aid, and of course there is some willingness from Bajor to join the Federation over time, which Starfleet will also monitor. And there is no idea that Bajor would have to forego their religious beliefs to join the Federation.

When I said DS9 broke a lot of rules of Trek what I meant was that it broke off from what Roddenberry wanted a Trek show to be and what a lot of fans may have wanted it to be. Not debating that things like religion and money didn’t exist outside the Federation as I agree with your point on that but it wasn’t coincidence that DS9 came out after Roddenberry had past.

DS9 showed a darker, more political, morality ambiguous, grittier side of Star Trek and it is always a gamble when studios/writers go in a different direction from what the established fan base is perceived to want. Like someone mentioned, the mere fact that it was set in a space station instead of a starship was already a big no no to some fans. I personally like DS9 very much but a lot of my Trek friends don’t. Am just happy my son likes it so I can enjoy with him :)

On a related note, I read somewhere that Voyager was supposed to be darker and grittier too but in the end the powers that be wanted a more upbeat version - as upbeat as it could be considering they were stranded!
 

scrowe

Distinguished Member
When I said DS9 broke a lot of rules of Trek what I meant was that it broke off from what Roddenberry wanted a Trek show to be and what a lot of fans may have wanted it to be. Not debating that things like religion and money didn’t exist outside the Federation as I agree with your point on that but it wasn’t coincidence that DS9 came out after Roddenberry had past.

DS9 showed a darker, more political, morality ambiguous, grittier side of Star Trek and it is always a gamble when studios/writers go in a different direction from what the established fan base is perceived to want. Like someone mentioned, the mere fact that it was set in a space station instead of a starship was already a big no no to some fans. I personally like DS9 very much but a lot of my Trek friends don’t. Am just happy my son likes it so I can enjoy with him :)

On a related note, I read somewhere that Voyager was supposed to be darker and grittier too but in the end the powers that be wanted a more upbeat version - as upbeat as it could be considering they were stranded!

This may be more legend than fact but yes, Voyager was originally pitched to be a much more desperate show, with the crew scavenging their way home, and the ship getting more and more damaged and cobbled together repaired with parts along the way, and the mixed Starfleet/Maquis crew a constant storyline/conflict.
 

VisionMan

Distinguished Member
This may be more legend than fact but yes, Voyager was originally pitched to be a much more desperate show, with the crew scavenging their way home, and the ship getting more and more damaged and cobbled together repaired with parts along the way, and the mixed Starfleet/Maquis crew a constant storyline/conflict.

I thought that was Star Trek Voyager?
 

scrowe

Distinguished Member
I thought That was Star Trek Voyager?
Well if you think about it, Voyager was really sanitised. The Maquis were quickly integrated and the crew became an ordinary Starfleet crew, and most episodes still standalone. I think I read somewhere that The Year of Hell was what the whole series was supposed to be, with an ongoing desperate journey of survival, where all their training and fealty to Starfleet regulations and Federation ethics would be tested to the Max.
 

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