Deep Space Nine: A Re-evaluation.

johndon

Well-known Member
I'd agree that Emissary is a far better pilot that Farpoint but DS9, like TNG suffered from a good few duff episodes early on. For me, it started to take off with the introduction of the Defiant and just got better from there.
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
the first TNG, Emissary I though was very poor and was quite annoying it would have been better to have had the story with Q later when you got to know the characters more it was as much a Q story as the crew and was annoying.

I assume you mean Encounter at Far Point?

It’s funny you mention the stuff about Q, I don’t know if you know any of the history around that episode but D.C Fontana was given the assignment of writing a one hour pilot. At sone point in pre production Paramount asked for the pilot to be 2 hours, so Gene and the studio went back and forth, with Roddenberry insisting to Fontana that it was his show and it would be a standard one hour pilot.

Eventually Roddenberry relented as the studio kept on insisting, and he took Fontana’s Far Point Station story, rejigged some of the story and added the Q element. It’s pure Roddenberry if you think about it, judging humanity and all that. Unfortunately you end up with a very disjointed episode, the stuff at Farpoint isn’t interesting to begin with.
 

Garrett

Moderator
I assume you mean Encounter at Far Point?

It’s funny you mention the stuff about Q, I don’t know if you know any of the history around that episode but D.C Fontana was given the assignment of writing a one hour pilot. At sone point in pre production Paramount asked for the pilot to be 2 hours, so Gene and the studio went back and forth, with Roddenberry insisting to Fontana that it was his show and it would be a standard one hour pilot.

Eventually Roddenberry relented as the studio kept on insisting, and he took Fontana’s Far Point Station story, rejigged some of the story and added the Q element. It’s pure Roddenberry if you think about it, judging humanity and all that. Unfortunately you end up with a very disjointed episode, the stuff at Farpoint isn’t interesting to begin with.
If you remember the original series Squire of Gothos well the did a novel where it said he was part of the Q continuum.

Oh yes Farpoint.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Just because Enterprise did not make it beyond season 4 does not make it a poor series many posted now re looked at the series and agree it really picked up with season 3 and had some of the best stories in season 4. Star Trek Original did not make it beyond 3 seasons.
Garrett - I made that point about "Enterprise" not based on it quality, but on its popularity.

Exactly the same thing happened to "TOS" - the viewing figures drop, the number crunchers get twitchy, the studio execs get nervous and everyone abandons ship.

I don't know what the situation was with "TOS", whether it was meant to run for many Seasons. Same with "Enterprise", was it initially scheduled to run for seven Seasons? This is how Wikipedia describe its cancellation:


And its critical reception:


Personally, I think it was always doomed as there was bickering about the theme song right from the start! @krish is still vocal about it all these years later!;)

You see, this is yet another reason why "DS9" should be regarded as the last of the classic TV shows - because it actually ran for its full term and wasn't cancelled!
 

krish

Distinguished Member
You see, this is yet another reason why "DS9" should be regarded as the last of the classic TV shows - because it actually ran for its full term and wasn't cancelled!
Voyager subsequently also ran for the full seven, but I don't view it as a classic. Mostly boring filler and had to rely on the Borg and Seven of Nine for ratings.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
That looks super cool. Is that they only Star Trek you have on LD?

I still have some of my Trek LD collection. I definitely still have the 25th anniversary edition of the films and some TNG episodes. I'll post a pic tomorrow if @Derek S-H is ok with that. It is off topic. I had quite a lot of TNG and the "banned" TOS episodes.

Bri
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
Garrett - I made that point about "Enterprise" not based on it quality, but on its popularity.

Exactly the same thing happened to "TOS" - the viewing figures drop, the number crunchers get twitchy, the studio execs get nervous and everyone abandons ship.

I don't know what the situation was with "TOS", whether it was meant to run for many Seasons. Same with "Enterprise", was it initially scheduled to run for seven Seasons? This is how Wikipedia describe its cancellation:


And its critical reception:


Personally, I think it was always doomed as there was bickering about the theme song right from the start! @krish is still vocal about it all these years later!;)

You see, this is yet another reason why "DS9" should be regarded as the last of the classic TV shows - because it actually ran for its full term and wasn't cancelled!

Krish is not the only who hated the Enterprise song. I had to skip it every time.

Bri
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
I have to admit I liked the Enterprise theme - I thought it was upbeat and optimistic which exactly what the Federation was all about. I also liked TNG theme which at least had some pace to it. Never really got on with DS9 and Voyager themes which I thought were too plodding TBH.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
I have to admit I liked the Enterprise theme - I thought it was upbeat and optimistic which exactly what the Federation was all about. I also liked TNG theme which at least had some pace to it. Never really got on with DS9 and Voyager themes which I thought were too plodding TBH.
"Voyager" had the best opening credits of any of the shows, in my opinion. It also had a deliberate design aesthetic - from emerging from the light, going into the dark and back to the light again. Check out this 4K remake:



And the makers of "DS9" agreed with you; so much so that they remixed the theme tune making it slightly faster, added a bass pulse and made it more energetic. Here's another 4K remake:



Glorious!:D
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
I still have some of my Trek LD collection. I definitely still have the 25th anniversary edition of the films and some TNG episodes. I'll post a pic tomorrow if @Derek S-H is ok with that. It is off topic. I had quite a lot of TNG and the "banned" TOS episodes.

Bri
Brian - I love discussions that go round the houses. I know it's seen as bad etiquette to go OT, but I love it!

I also think that I don't "own" a Thread - I just put my thoughts out there and see what happens.

I wouldn't be happy if people started throwing insults at each other or got bogged down in semantics, but you posting images of your Laserdiscs is a great addition in my opinion.

I think my only exposure to the technology was back in the early 90's when I was looking to buy a new TV. There was something playing on one of the TV's on the shop floor, and I thought it looked absolutely incredible. However, I only had a budget of £1000, which just about stretched to a 28" widescreen CRT!

There was no way I could afford a Laserdisc player + discs, even though it was clearly superior to VHS at the time. And even though I have a 4K player now, I still mostly just get Blu-Ray's and the odd DVD if there is no HD version.
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
If you remember the original series Squire of Gothos well the did a novel where it said he was part of the Q continuum.

Oh yes Farpoint.

I haven't watched TOS in years, although doing a rewatch at the moment, never knew that about Squire and Q though. I haven't read many of the Trek books only the Destiny trilogy which I quite enjoyed.

Garrett - I made that point about "Enterprise" not based on it quality, but on its popularity.

Personally, I think it was always doomed as there was bickering about the theme song right from the start! @krish is still vocal about it all these years later!;)

Actually ENT was cancelled from things that were going on behind the scenes, the show was getting okay ratings, shows today would kill for that kind of viewership. Les Moonves who was the head of CBS, until quite recently and when his past as a sexual harasser finally caught up with him, simply didn't like Star Trek. Actually he didn't like anything sci-fi related and once he became the head of CBS he gave the show the chop.

It is really ironic then that when CBS wanted to get into the streaming game Moonves was forced to rest everything on Star Trek, they had nothing else that a loyal and passionate fan base would be willing to pay for.

I don't get the thing about the theme tune, first of it isn't actually that bad, secondly if you don't like the theme song does that really have a bearing on enjoying the show?

I still have some of my Trek LD collection. I definitely still have the 25th anniversary edition of the films and some TNG episodes. I'll post a pic tomorrow if @Derek S-H is ok with that. It is off topic. I had quite a lot of TNG and the "banned" TOS episodes.

Bri

You can always post in the Star Trek general thread.
 
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brian s

Distinguished Member
Brian - I love discussions that go round the houses. I know it's seen as bad etiquette to go OT, but I love it!

I also think that I don't "own" a Thread - I just put my thoughts out there and see what happens.

I wouldn't be happy if people started throwing insults at each other or got bogged down in semantics, but you posting images of your Laserdiscs is a great addition in my opinion.

I think my only exposure to the technology was back in the early 90's when I was looking to buy a new TV. There was something playing on one of the TV's on the shop floor, and I thought it looked absolutely incredible. However, I only had a budget of £1000, which just about stretched to a 28" widescreen CRT!

There was no way I could afford a Laserdisc player + discs, even though it was clearly superior to VHS at the time. And even though I have a 4K player now, I still mostly just get Blu-Ray's and the odd DVD if there is no HD version.

Thank you Derek. For me it'd have been bad form to post about other Trek shows on Laserdisc without your ok. It was the best quality home video format in it's day and I loved it. Sure it had problems. The short playing time per side meant all films were split into 2 or more parts. Far less than ideal but the picture and sound quality were far superior to tape. I'll post some images tomorrow.

Like me you still buy and watch DVD but that is frowned upon by many here. I think you saw my "l watched a DVD and I liked it" post in an HMV thread.

Bri
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
I don't get the thing about the theme tune, first of it isn't actually that bad, secondly if you don't like the theme song does that really have a bearing on enjoying the show?

Just imagine the show started with something like this.


Would that not sour your enjoyment somewhat? I think Enterprise's song is close to that bad. The thing is that I like the imagery of the opening credits but the music totally ruins it.

Bri
 

Garrett

Moderator
Had to down grade some gear on my druid had 2 items that had corruption on and was up to 50 corruption with a - 10 and was doing more damage to me than the things I was killing.m Lucky a rare 122 boss was dropping the same item(gloves) although 20 lv lower.
I haven't watched TOS in years, although doing a rewatch at the moment, never knew that about Squire and Q though. I haven't read many of the Trek books only the Destiny trilogy which I quite enjoyed.

Q-Squared.jpg

 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
Just imagine the show started with something like this.


Would that not sour your enjoyment somewhat? I think Enterprise's song is close to that bad. The thing is that I like the imagery of the opening credits but the music totally ruins it.

Bri

That is a very extreme example, but it still wouldn't stop me watching the show. The theme tune has no bearing on the actual episode. A good theme tune won't make a bad episode good and a great theme tune won't make a bad episode good. I actually have the original version on a Star Trek music playlist, the rock version they used for S3 and 4 is terrible but you can skip that very easily on Netflix/Blu-ray.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
That is a very extreme example, but it still wouldn't stop me watching the show. The theme tune has no bearing on the actual episode. A good theme tune won't make a bad episode good and a great theme tune won't make a bad episode good. I actually have the original version on a Star Trek music playlist, the rock version they used for S3 and 4 is terrible but you can skip that very easily on Netflix/Blu-ray.

Actually it isn't that an extreme example for me. I hate that opening song with a vengeance so it's six and two threes as to which is the worst. Granted it doesn't destroy a good episode but a good tune and opening sequence puts you into a very receptive mood.

Bri
 

mr starface

Well-known Member
Love DS9, by far the best Trek show.

"The Magnificent Ferengi" is one of the most entertaining episodes of television I have ever seen!
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Love DS9, by far the best Trek show.

"The Magnificent Ferengi" is one of the most entertaining episodes of television I have ever seen!
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that!

The writers claim that it's not based on "The Magnificent Seven" at all - hah!

I don't why there's so much moaning about the Ferengi episodes as I always enjoyed them. Zek was an absolute joy, Brunt was always such a creep, I loved Rom and Zek's giant personal assistant always pulled some cracking faces in the background.:D
 

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