Dedicated surrounds (bipole etc) vs bookshelfs

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by coulcher, Apr 14, 2002.

  1. coulcher

    coulcher
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    I'm upgrading from my pro-logic amp to a DD amp probably the Denon AVR-3802. I need to buy some good surround speakers to cope and use the power properly.

    Is it worth buying dedicated surround speakers like the Mission 77DS or better to get some good bookshelf size speakers and use them as rears? eg Wharfdale Diamond 8.1 / 8.2, KEF Cresta 2, Mission 701 etc

    I know the Denon and probably other amps have a 5/7 channel stereo facility which looks useful for parties and would seem to suit bookshelf speakers.

    Thanks
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Much depends on your room layout and available space. I have a smallish room and the settee is tight against the wall. The rear speakers should be a few feet away from you so direct radiators are really not on for me.

    I have Mission M7DS mounted high on the wall to the sides and it provides a very satisfactory solution.

    The old adage about a home demo being best is not always feasible as you would need two seven foot friends to stand there holding the speakers for half an hour whilst you watched some films.
     
  3. Duvel

    Duvel
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    I've got the 3802 and use 77ds for surrounds after previously using Kef cresta 1's and the 77ds are a big improvement for me.

    the kefs were far to directional for surround speakers whilst the 77ds have a much more enveloping sound
     
  4. dts_boy

    dts_boy
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    with the 3802 you can have an A/B surround...have both bookshelf and dipole if your looking for both musical and av sounding rears!:D
     
  5. john87

    john87
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    Having listened to 77DS's and an ordinary bookshelve pair, I would say the 77D's are streets ahead... but that's just my opinion. :rolleyes:
     
  6. petrolhead

    petrolhead
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    You guys don't mention if you use the Mission for both surround and the center rear surround. Could you clarify please.
     
  7. Samir

    Samir
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    I use Missions 702e as my Surrounds and stand mounted Mission 700's as my surround rears and i find these results ideal in a movie and music set up
     
  8. petrolhead

    petrolhead
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    My earlie post was vague.

    What I meant was do you use the Mission DiPols for L & R Surround and the same for rear surround.

    What's the current trend regarding dipole and std for surround setup
     
  9. Jase

    Jase
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    Petrolhead

    Current thinking for an EX/ES setup is Dipoles/Bipoles at the sides and monopoles as Surround Backs. Also the surround backs are placed as close together as possible.

    But as with everything, its worth experimenting as what works in one room for someone might not work for someone else with a different room.
     
  10. coulcher

    coulcher
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    Good forum. Thanks for all the feedback.

    I'm auditioning some amps and speakers this weekend.

    How do you find the bi-poles for music if being used in the 5 channel stereo mode?
     
  11. Jase

    Jase
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    I have Dipoles and to be honest they´re not so good compared to Monopoles in the 5ch stereo mode. You may find Bipoles are better suited but I never tried them.

    If you have a Denon then you can connect a 2nd pair of surround speakers (A or B) and use one set for Movies the other for Music then you´ll have the best of both worlds.
     
  12. Duvel

    Duvel
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    bipoles not to fantastic with 5 channel music either. Pretty damn good for movies though
     
  13. Matt F

    Matt F
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    I must say that "useful for parties" is about the best description I've come across for 5/7 channel stereo.:D

    Honestly, I've got the "TM Surround" option on my Tag AV32R and whilst it's quite a subtle effect, it completely destroys the soundtage of a good stereo recording.

    However, before the DSP and Prologic II brigade get on my back, I'd just like to add that variety is the spice of life and if you like it then you listen to it that way.

    Matt.
     
  14. coulcher

    coulcher
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    Matt F - totally agree Dolby Pro Logic and other dsps make a mess of music.

    However - if you've got a room full of people that wonderful stereo recording is muffled by bodies in the way so I thought 5/7 channel stereo could be good.

    Probably means that I should be more concerned about rear speakers as movie speakers than music.
     
  15. Jase

    Jase
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    5/7ch stereo just passes through the signals unprocessed, its only the centre channel that gets a mix of both the left & right channels.

    Obviously 2ch stereo is the way to go for serious listening but 5/7ch isnt too bad when compared to other modes (concert, hall, etc etc) It can actually sound rather good when all the speakers are the same.
     
  16. coulcher

    coulcher
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    Tried the 3802 at the weekend. Very impressed DVDs and CDs.

    5 channel stereo? Pretty awful. To be fair the rear speakers were in-walls which didn't really match up with the nice B&W fronts. Probably fairer to demo it at a party but for normal listening I'd leave well alone.

    The shop's (Audio T - Hampstead, London) opinion on surrounds versus bookshelf was basically a space issue. In their opinion if you have the space a decent bookshelf would be better.

    Interestingly although my B&W 610s are getting on a bit now he wasn't keen on urging me to replace my speakers, even though I said I was thinking about it. Nice not to have a hard sell.
     

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