Dedicated HT setup, Floor standers, book shelf or on wall?

Rocketrazor

Active Member
Hi All,
Trying to work out a dedicated home cinema setup (garage conversion approx 2.35 x 4.2m). At present I'm stuck purely on the fronts (LCR). They will be behind an Acoustic Transparent screen and I'll have a sub. I'm planning on leaving between 40-60 cm behind the screen for the sub, the BK Mono+ are beasts (still thinking about this though)! The problem I have is I don't know if I should be looking at floor standers, book shelf are on wall for behind the AT. If I get floor standers I get the extra base, but its not really required as I have the sub which if the crossover is at 100Hz means fronts don't need to do anything 100 - 20Hz (if I understand that right), I do have the chance to angle slightly to face the seating position, but will it be far enough from the walls (I understand ported speakers not breathing space?)? If I go for book shelfs is in-between both worlds and if I go for on wall am I just paying extra for a smaller box?

Another issue is frequency response, what should I be looking for here? I see speakers over 20kHz yet I've read humans can't hear over 20kHz, so why make speakers over that range?

I have some example's below (ignore the price for now, I couldn't afford the Artcoustic but it's for example)

KEFFREQUENCY RESPONSE
Q55058Hz-28kHz (±3dB)28 kHz
650C64Hz-28kHz (±3dB)28 kHz
T30180Hz - 30kHz30 kHz
KlipschFrequency Response
640D55Hz-25kHz +/- 3dB25 kHz
ArtcousticOperating Range:
Spitfire 6-365 Hz (-3 dB) to 40 kHz40 kHz
XTZFrequency Response:
Spirit 663 - 22.000 Hz (+/- 3dB)22kHz
Spirit 1134 - 22.000 Hz (+/- 3dB)22kHz

Based purely on this the KEFT301's come on top, due to the high frequency (I've ignored the Artcoustic doe to cost)?

I like the look of the XTZ as it seems the logical for all speakers, but both the on wall and floor standers only hit 22kHz! I can't help but think I'd be better spending the Front LCR on non on wall speakers though! but I'm not sure that's correct as all professional installs are on wall (though granted a lot more expensive as well)

If anyone has any advise, it would be appreciated. Its hard not being able to demo but then again when most places locally don't have all the kit in the same place I'm demoing in different places anyway

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

Rocket
 

Rocketrazor

Active Member
i've also found the Dali Oberon series which look good, so confusing though. Any help as to if I should be looking for Floor standers, book shelves or on walls for the front LCR behind an AT screen? and also any advise about the frequency range?

Cheers

Rocket
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
Hi @Rocketrazor

Welcome to the forum.

It's extremely difficult to recommend the type of speaker (floorstanding, bookshelf or on/inwall) without seeing the proposed layout of the room they'll be used in. This doesn't have to be a photo, can be a sketch etc.

What is important is it should show at minimum the positions of the tv/projector screen and MLP (Main Listening Position). You can also mark speaker positions etc

Once this is provided, members will be better placed to offer advice.

As a general rule of thumb, floorstanders need a greater amount of space than there bookshelf siblings, to achieve their potential.

Despite their name bookshelf speakers should ideally be placed on speaker stands. If they are to be placed on furniture/cabinets, they should be positioned near the front edge of the cabinet to avoid reflection of sound.

In/on wall speakers are perhaps the cleanest look. They also naturally free up floor space, but require careful planning prior to install. As moving them while not impossible will certainly be time consuming and incur additional costs.

Hope this helps
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
Hi Ya,
Rough outline attached which gives an idea of proposed set up.
Cheers

Rocket
As it's a dedicated HT Room with AT screen, I'd definitely look at in walls. Monitor Audio do some very good inwall speakers:


You don't mention an overall budget and if it includes buying the AVR & projector?

I like the look of the XTZ as it seems the logical for all speakers, but both the on wall and floor standers only hit 22kHz! I can't help but think I'd be better spending the Front LCR on non on wall speakers though!
Unless you also plan on using the room for 2 channel music listening. I wouldn't worry to much about the perceived lack of low frequency associated with in wall speakers. After all, your (potentially dual) Monoliths are designed to - and will easily - give you all the bass you need. 😉.... They go lower in terms of frequency than most floorstanders

Even if you are wanting bass in a 2 channel music, there are ways to use the same subs in both a multi channel & stereo setup.

Since your using a AT screen, I see little value or point in putting either standmount (bookshelf) or floorstanders behind the screen where no one will see the nice cabinets etc. Different if they were positioned to the side of the screen.

Similarly, there's no technical requirement to have in/on walls for the surround speakers. You could have your LCR as in wall, with standmounts for surrounds. The only thing I would say is to keep your LCR from the same brand and range, to maintain tonality across the front stage.
 
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Rocketrazor

Active Member
Thanks,
I'm looking at an overall budget of approx 20K which includes the garage work, and I wont know how much I have left until that is agreed. I've already decided I don't want in wall speakers. I would like the option of upgrading easily later if I want to.

The rears and sides will be on wall speakers to save space. The room during the day will be my work/study and then transformed at night to the HT, hence the on wall speakers, I don't want bulky speakers round the room.

My difficulty in the decision process is do I get a better quality speaker from say the KefQ550 at £600 per pair compared to the Kef T301 at £550 a pair, ignoring the low range covered by the subs. Then I also get into the issue of placement and frequency range more problematic at the high end. It's such a mind field and with local demo facilities only offering one brand or no demo's its a difficult decision to make on the basis I only hope to make it once and then maybe again in say 5-7 years time. I don't wont to think I could have spent better by getting on wall instead of floor standers of floor standers instead of on wall!

Personally I'm inclined to go with on wall everywhere at the moment, but just not 100% its the right choice for LCR. The reason is the fact that base doesn't matter as covered by the sub, and I could have an issue with floor standing placement, I just need to be sure i'm not missing on quality for going on wall.

Cheers

Rocket
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
The room during the day will be my work/study and then transformed at night to the HT, hence the on wall speakers, I don't want bulky speakers round the room.
Is the projector screen a fixed frame one then? If so I think you've kinda answered what type of speaker you want/need, ie on-wall! If the screen is/was retractable then standmounts are an option depending on what you consider "bulky" means lol
 
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Rocketrazor

Active Member
yeah it's fixed, though I'll have on hinges to lift up to get behind. Just general speakers for bulky, I don't want them round the room (surrounds and rears). Nice on wall round the room, I couldn't care less whats behind the screen (except in wall) I just want the best possible sound out of on wall/floor/book shelf speakers for my money
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
For your on wall rears have you considered the Monitor Audio Soundframe range? You can even customise the grilles with pictures/art of your choice, to help them blend in!
 
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MikeHoy

Active Member
Dali Opticon or Rubicon LCR could work well in that space.
Not listened to the Oberon.
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
Dali Opticon or Rubicon LCR could work well in that space.
Not listened to the Oberon.
Or even the Opticon LCR's

In terms of range order (from budget up). The Dali on wall stuff goes:

Oberon,
Opticon,
Rubicon

And all are also available as bookshelf & floorstanders too.
 
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Rocketrazor

Active Member
I think the Opticon or Rubicon are out of my price range from what I looked at the other day. The issue isn't so much which manufacturer do I go with yet its which type of speaker. Were you referring to on walls/Floor standers or book shelf for LCR in particular or just the range as an option?

Cheers

Rocket
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
I think the Opticon or Rubicon are out of my price range from what I looked at the other day. The issue isn't so much which manufacturer do I go with yet its which type of speaker. Were you referring to on walls/Floor standers or book shelf for LCR in particular or just the range as an option?

Cheers

Rocket
Just the ranges & where they sit in terms of quality against each other. Rubicon's are Dali's top range with Oberon their "budget". I hate the word budget though. It implies the Oberon's aren't very good, when in fact they are excellent speakers.

I think you really need to see what budget you think might be left after the conversion. For example, my HT kit list in total cost circa 7k including TV, so costs can mount up, and I didn't pay RRP for any of my gear - even though it was brand new. If you look at my signature in my profile, my kits' listed there.

Gives you an idea of what your 20k might achieve. Bear in mind though the 7k quoted is just for AV gear. I don't have the space for a dedicated room setup, so didn't have that additional cost.
 
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MikeHoy

Active Member
From my point it is on walls for your room. I only went with the Fazon 5 floor standers because i have a wall with alcoves and a party wall.
They will sit neatly behind your screen. I chose the Rubicon for my centre over the cheaper Opticon purely on size to fit in the area i wanted it.
It is a very good centre speaker though.
 
Upvote 0

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hi All,
Trying to work out a dedicated home cinema setup (garage conversion approx 2.35 x 4.2m). At present I'm stuck purely on the fronts (LCR). They will be behind an Acoustic Transparent screen and I'll have a sub. I'm planning on leaving between 40-60 cm behind the screen for the sub, the BK Mono+ are beasts (still thinking about this though)! The problem I have is I don't know if I should be looking at floor standers, book shelf are on wall for behind the AT. If I get floor standers I get the extra base, but its not really required as I have the sub which if the crossover is at 100Hz means fronts don't need to do anything 100 - 20Hz (if I understand that right), I do have the chance to angle slightly to face the seating position, but will it be far enough from the walls (I understand ported speakers not breathing space?)? If I go for book shelfs is in-between both worlds and if I go for on wall am I just paying extra for a smaller box?

Another issue is frequency response, what should I be looking for here? I see speakers over 20kHz yet I've read humans can't hear over 20kHz, so why make speakers over that range?

I have some example's below (ignore the price for now, I couldn't afford the Artcoustic but it's for example)

KEFFREQUENCY RESPONSE
Q55058Hz-28kHz (±3dB)28 kHz
650C64Hz-28kHz (±3dB)28 kHz
T30180Hz - 30kHz30 kHz
KlipschFrequency Response
640D55Hz-25kHz +/- 3dB25 kHz
ArtcousticOperating Range:
Spitfire 6-365 Hz (-3 dB) to 40 kHz40 kHz
XTZFrequency Response:
Spirit 663 - 22.000 Hz (+/- 3dB)22kHz
Spirit 1134 - 22.000 Hz (+/- 3dB)22kHz

Based purely on this the KEFT301's come on top, due to the high frequency (I've ignored the Artcoustic doe to cost)?

I like the look of the XTZ as it seems the logical for all speakers, but both the on wall and floor standers only hit 22kHz! I can't help but think I'd be better spending the Front LCR on non on wall speakers though! but I'm not sure that's correct as all professional installs are on wall (though granted a lot more expensive as well)

If anyone has any advise, it would be appreciated. Its hard not being able to demo but then again when most places locally don't have all the kit in the same place I'm demoing in different places anyway

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

Rocket

Check out Arendal 1961 Monitor & Centre (identical apart the logo) so you would use three identical speakers behind AT-screen vertically at same height. Sealed by design with 15cm depth, easy to mount keyhole at rear. 1400€ = ~1191£ and some small fees due to Brexit.


They do have Bookshelf and Surround models if you want to add later.

Video shows the size/finish better.
 
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