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Dedicated Amplifier for Stereo Playback

laughalot

Active Member
I have been offered a great price on the Evolution Amplifier. I know it doesnt have a power in specific input, but I could always connect my CD player directly to the Creek and use the Preouts for the subwoofer. The AVR Preout front could then be connected to the AV input of the Amp and when watching movies I would just change the source input on the Amp.

System
Yamaha RX V3800
Monitor Audio RX1
Paradigm DSP 3400 Sub
Creek Evolution CD Player

Any and all advice and or recommedations would be appreciated

Thanks
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
My advice...Do it!

Check this thread I started some time ago. It talks all about your options...as I was initally running my Roksan Caspian using the pre-outs from my AVR so the stereo amp was always running the fronts...and like your Creek the Roksan doesn't have HT-bypass/unity gain.

Then check this thread out..It's about the Beresford TC-7220 speaker/amp cross-over switch.

I really like using the Beresford over the pre-outs via AVR option...it just works better for me in my situation.

Have a read of my old threads, it's all in there.

Hope this helps
Darren
 

laughalot

Active Member
Read both thead thanks. Dont understand how you get to use the sub with both set ups. Perhaps you could explain that to me. According to Luke Creek of Creek Audio, using the Pre-outs on the AVR defeats the purpose of having a dedicated Amp as unnecessary circuitry is still being used. Much better he feels to play the CD through the Dedicated amp and use that to drive the fronts and sub. Use the front Pre-outs of the AVR into the AV input of dedicated amp for Movies TV etc. The downside is dedicated amp has to work alll the time. The Beresford TC-7220 looks like a great idea., so if you have the time and or patience please explain full conections (including subwoofer)

My Sub has only line level inputs so has to be driven from LFE of AVR or Pre-Outs of Dedicated Amp.

Me thinks only Sub connections Needed. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Front Left right Speakers Amp A (Dedicated) To Input A. Front Left and Right speakers (AVR) To input B. Output Speaker 1 or 2 to front speakers. And thats about it.

Just a thought this Box can be used to Bi-Wire (Not BI-Amp) Speakers using outputs 1 and 2 correct??

Cheer
Mike
 
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Dazzor

Well-known Member
Read both thead thanks. Dont understand how you get to use the sub with both set ups. Perhaps you could explain that to me. According to Luke Creek of Creek Audio, using the Pre-outs on the AVR defeats the purpose of having a dedicated Amp as unnecessary circuitry is still being used. Much better he feels to play the CD through the Dedicated amp and use that to drive the fronts and sub. Use the front Pre-outs of the AVR into the AV input of dedicated amp for Movies TV etc. The downside is dedicated amp has to work alll the time. The Beresford TC-7220 looks like a great idea., so if you have the time and or patience please explain full conections (including subwoofer)

This is all correct....and to be fair the way in which Luke suggests connections should be made is how it's suggested in my first thread....It's all in there somewhere, honest:rolleyes:

Bottom line when using the pre-outs from your AVR is that one opts for this configuration in order to share your front-2 speakers with both amps (without the use of speaker-switch and sometimes folk want to improve the performance of the SQ with HT by perhaps adding more power to the front-2)...Of course one would connect a CDP directly to the stereo amp or else you'll be "Tainting" the SQ with the pre-amp stage from the AVR.

Like I said, it really is all in that first thread...I was on a huge learning curve at the time and owe much thanks to all those members that persevered:smashin:

My Sub has only line level inputs so has to be driven from LFE of AVR or Pre-Outs of Dedicated Amp.

Me thinks only Sub connections Needed. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Front Left right Speakers Amp A (Dedicated) To Input A. Front Left and Right speakers (AVR) To input B. Output Speaker 1 or 2 to front speakers. And thats about it.

Correct in terms of how to connect up the beresford with 2 amps to your front-2;)

With 2 amps running low-levels to one sub....The Beresford makes this much easier because you should only ever have one amp on at time. Of course using the pre-out via AVR method could still encompass using two amps with one sub by using some sort of Y-splitter RCA switch at the sub...This would mean getting behind your sub everytime you wish to "swap" amps though:thumbsdow

Just a thought this Box can be used to Bi-Wire (Not BI-Amp) Speakers using outputs 1 and 2 correct??

I guess any speaker-connection can offer the ability to bi-wire...Why would you though? It is commanly thought that Bi-wiring offers nothing more than simply using thicker wire...I am of this opinion too. If you're already using 2.5mm wire than I suspect you will not gain anything more by bi-wiring or going thicker....unless you are running very long lenghts?

Don't ask me anything more about speaker-wire or conductance as I really don't know very much about it...just enough to get by...I hope:blush:

All the best
Darren
 
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laughalot

Active Member
All understood thanks. I would need something that can switch the sub as well. I am as much of a sports fanatic as I am a lover of Music. Very often I have the sports on and I listen to music instead of the commentary. This I can do at the moment with the AVR configuered. But once I have a dedicated stereo amp this would cause problems with the sub

Cheers
Mike
 
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Dazzor

Well-known Member
All understood thanks. I would need something that can switch the sub as well. I am as much of a sports fanatic as I am a lover of Music. Very often I have the sports on and I listen to music instead of the commentary. This I can do at the moment with the AVR configuered. But once I have a dedicated stereo amp this would cause problems with the sub

Cheers
Mike

I think you can still achieve this without the addition of a switch on your sub...

Your options could possibly be..

1) use the pass-though in standby mode on your AVR..If it has this ability....lots do. (mute telly if it has speakers)

2) set-up a saved setting on your AVR that bypassed the sub altogether, then just hit mute so you don't get sound from the remaining speakers...(Mute could work for all of it but bypassing the sub in the settings is a wise measure I'd say)

One or the other and/or both should work, shouldn't it?:confused:
 

laughalot

Active Member
I think you can still achieve this without the addition of a switch on your sub...

Your options could possibly be..

1) use the pass-though in standby mode on your AVR..If it has this ability....lots do. (mute telly if it has speakers)

2) set-up a saved setting on your AVR that bypassed the sub altogether, then just hit mute so you don't get sound from the remaining speakers...(Mute could work for all of it but bypassing the sub in the settings is a wise measure I'd say)

One or the other and/or both should work, shouldn't it?:confused:
Would work but is dangerous one wrong button pushed and there goes one sub and 2 amps. Wil probably eithr get a switching box or use the dedicate amp for fronts and Sub
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
Would work but is dangerous one wrong button pushed and there goes one sub and 2 amps. Wil probably eithr get a switching box or use the dedicate amp for fronts and Sub

Really?? Allow me to hypothesize….

So lets say you set-up a saved setting that bypasses the sub altogether…Then you switch off your AVR so is passes HDMI through in standby.

Basically you'd have to “accidently” hit the on button on your AVR and then have another “accident” in the form of hitting a different setting on your AVR that included using the sub....

I'm no bookie but what are the chances of that happening?:)

Also, I'm a bit lost when you say "...or use the dedicate amp for fronts and Sub".

Aren't we past all that now and onto separate low-level connections between both amps (independently) to one Sub?
 
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laughalot

Active Member
Really?? Allow me to hypothesize….

So lets say you set-up a saved setting that bypasses the sub altogether…Then you switch off your AVR so is passes HDMI through in standby.

Basically you'd have to “accidently” hit the on button on your AVR and then have another “accident” in the form of hitting a different setting on your AVR that included using the sub....

I’m no bookie but what are the chances of that happening?:)

Also, I'm a bit lost when you say "...or use the dedicate amp for fronts and Sub".

Aren't we past all that now and onto separate low-level connections between both amps (independently) to one Sub?
I would play the Fronts and sub through the dedicated music amp and use the pre-outs of the Avr into the Stereo Amp that would give me all I need but the Stereo Amp would have to work all the time. Not serious but better to avoid it. As for by-passing the sub from the Avr, I could just not have it connected to the AVR but I would lose LFE for TV and Movies.

No Matter I will sort it out one way or another. Spoke to my dealer today he told me to come and fetch the Creek to try, in the meantime he is looking for a Tube power amp for me. He thinks he has one at a really good Price and that would be 7th heaven.
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
I would play the Fronts and sub through the dedicated music amp and use the pre-outs of the Avr into the Stereo Amp that would give me all I need but the Stereo Amp would have to work all the time. Not serious but better to avoid it. As for by-passing the sub from the Avr, I could just not have it connected to the AVR but I would lose LFE for TV and Movies.

No Matter I will sort it out one way or another. Spoke to my dealer today he told me to come and fetch the Creek to try, in the meantime he is looking for a Tube power amp for me. He thinks he has one at a really good Price and that would be 7th heaven.

Apologies....I've been commenting on the basis you were indeed going to use the Beresford TC-7220...not the pre-outs from your AVR. This of course equates to the two systems being more separated, thus offering you more flexibility when running two low-level lines to your sub.

Anyway, looks like you've got some fun times ahead, checking out new kit. Do let us/me know what you think of the Creek Evo...is it the Evo 2 or the older one you'll be trailing ?
 

laughalot

Active Member
Apologies....I've been commenting on the basis you were indeed going to use the Beresford TC-7220...not the pre-outs from your AVR. This of course equates to the two systems being more separated, thus offering you more flexibility when running two low-level lines to your sub.

Anyway, looks like you've got some fun times ahead, checking out new kit. Do let us/me know what you think of the Creek Evo...is it the Evo 2 or the older one you'll be trailing ?

Starting with the EVO (Older one) my dealer has one from his display never been out of the store. He will let me use it to see if there is any difference in SQ. If there is than the fun will really begin. Will keep posting once I have had time to really listen and evaluate. I am almost convinced that if the EVO sounds good I will than go for the EVO 2 or if I can stretch it the Destiny AMP
 
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laughalot

Active Member
Came home a ouple of hours ago with the Creek Evolution amp. Here are my first impressions. Tops are cleaner and a lot less harsh. Voices are outstanding I listened to Renaisance House of Cards Annie Haslams voice is always beutiful but can sometimes be very stringent, not now. The biggest change that I hear is in the bass it is so much more focused. I will spend the rest of the weekend playing and post further observations. I brought the Creek home for the sole purpose of determining if there would be any discernable difference. It is more than obvious. I am now going to probably go way over budget and get the Vincent 236 MK 11 Hybrid Amp. Tube Pre and Solid State Power.

Cheers
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
I brought the Creek home for the sole purpose of determining if there would be any discernable difference. It is more than obvious. I am now going to probably go way over budget and get the Vincent 236 MK 11 Hybrid Amp. Tube Pre and Solid State Power.

Cheers

Brilliant! The classic "over-budget syndrome" ...A man after my own heart:clap:.

Enjoy!
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
Do you have any experience with the Vincent??

None whatsoever, sorry.

I wasn't even aware of them until I looked it up after your post just now.:blush:

Looks very exotic and very nice.....I am officially jealous.:)

A hybrid pre and power combo….That lot looks to me like it deserves much, much more than a pair of RX1’s.:confused:

You do realise you are highly likely to be on the hunt for a serious speaker-upgrade if you take this route?

I am of course assuming that the little I have just read about the Vincent hybrids is all true.

Serious question:

How deep are your pockets? :devil:
 

laughalot

Active Member
A hybrid pre and power combo….That lot looks to me like it deserves much, much more than a pair of RX1’s.:confused:

You do realise you are highly likely to be on the hunt for a serious speaker-upgrade if you take this route?

Serious question:

How deep are your pockets? :devil:
As deep as I need them to be. If I did upgrade the RX1's and its a big if I would upgrade to the PL100's. I have always prefered Bookshelf/Stand Mounters with a good Sub Woofer to Floor Towers. In Fact When at my dealer today listened to the RX8 and the RX1's with my sub almost everyone there agreed that the rx1's with sub were no worse than the rx8's. We then switched the sub to the RX8's and it became a bit too much. So I will wait a few years when they upgrade the PL range to PX I will hopefully be able to get the PL100's at a discounted price. In the meantime if a pair of GS10,s comes knocking at my door, I wont turn them away.
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
As deep as I need them to be. If I did upgrade the RX1's and its a big if I would upgrade to the PL100's. I have always prefered Bookshelf/Stand Mounters with a good Sub Woofer to Floor Towers. In Fact When at my dealer today listened to the RX8 and the RX1's with my sub almost everyone there agreed that the rx1's with sub were no worse than the rx8's. We then switched the sub to the RX8's and it became a bit too much. So I will wait a few years when they upgrade the PL range to PX I will hopefully be able to get the PL100's at a discounted price. In the meantime if a pair of GS10,s comes knocking at my door, I wont turn them away.

I totally get the 2.1 using standmounts over a floorstanding 2.0 solution..However...

I think it's more about overall SQ and in particular top and mid-range I'd be concerned with.

Seriously, that Vincent combo using your RX1’s?:confused:... To me that’s like buying a Ferrari and running it on old chip-fat instead of high-octane petrol.:confused:

You purport to have bottomless pockets….Why then procrastinate on buying speakers more inline with the amplification you’re considering? :confused:
 

laughalot

Active Member
I totally get the 2.1 using standmounts over a floorstanding 2.0 solution..However...

I think it's more about overall SQ and in particular top and mid-range I'd be concerned with.

Seriously, that Vincent combo using your RX1’s?:confused:... To me that’s like buying a Ferrari and running it on old chip-fat instead of high-octane petrol.:confused:

You purport to have bottomless pockets….Why then procrastinate on buying speakers more inline with the amplification you’re considering? :confused:

Not Bottemless just being divorced with married kids I only have to worry about me. I will first listen to the RX1's with the Vincent and then make an informed decision. One step at a time is always the best way. I started this hobby in 1974\5 when I bought a Dynaco amp and a pair of Sonab OA11 Speakers(Still havnt found any speaker to match the sound stage of the Sonabs) and from there I was hooked. I held onto the Sonabs and then started to change speakers every 18 -24 months. Went through to mention a few Linn's, Meridian M10's Thiels but Eventually settled on a Mission Cyrus 2 Amp with Power Supply and Canton GLE 50's I think they were, with Matching Sub.

Immigrated in 94 and until this year never really got round to taking up where I left off, but like any addict one taste is all that you need for full addiction

Cheers

PS I will keep you updated once I have the Vincents
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
I will first listen to the RX1's with the Vincent and then make an informed decision.

How can you make an informed decision without benchmarking against other, potentially higher spec'd speakers.:confused:

Sorry but a lot of what you are planning and stating makes little sense to me. :confused:

In any case, I wish you all the best:smashin:

Regards
Darren
 

laughalot

Active Member
How can you make an informed decision without benchmarking against other, potentially higher spec'd speakers.:confused:

Sorry but a lot of what you are planning and stating makes little sense to me. :confused:

In any case, I wish you all the best:smashin:

Regards
Darren

By informed I mean I will first listen to what I have before starting to try other options. I believe and always have that a good amplifier can make reasonable speakers sound great. On the other hand if an Amp is bad not even the best speakers will sound good with it. No point in starting to think of better speakers until I have heard the Vincent. After that let the fun begin
 

Dazzor

Well-known Member
By informed I mean I will first listen to what I have before starting to try other options. I believe and always have that a good amplifier can make reasonable speakers sound great. On the other hand if an Amp is bad not even the best speakers will sound good with it. No point in starting to think of better speakers until I have heard the Vincent. After that let the fun begin

Are there any hard and fast rules about cost ratio between amps and speakers....Not in my opinion......However...

What's the likelihood of a mismatch between that Vincent pre-power combo and a pair of £400 bookshelfs speakers? Mmm?

Anyway, I am just giving my humble and candid opinion. You say you have been into hi-fi since the 70's so I'm sure you know far more than I.

Please do let us know how you find the combination once you have tried the likes of the PL100's to compare.

Have a good weekend
Darren
 
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laughalot

Active Member
Is there any hard and fast rules about cost ratio between amps and speakers....Not in my opinion......However...

What's the likelihood of a mismatch between that Vincent pre-power combo and a pair of £400 bookshelfs speakers? Mmm?

Anyway, I am just giving my humble and candid opinion. You say you have been into hi-fi since the 70’s so I’m sure you know far more than I.

Please do let us know how you find the combination once you have tried the likes of the PL100’s to compare.

Have a good weekend
Darren
To You as well
 

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