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Dealer or Internet

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Dean, Jul 24, 2003.

  1. Dean

    Dean
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    How about getting a demo done for free, then once you know its for you then go and get the best price elsewhere.. and still save up to 50% ?? ;)
     
  2. Phil Hinton

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    Great comment. So lets all go and waste dealers time and money providing a demo to go and buy elsewhere and save a few pounds. people like that make me mad:mad: There are some fine specialist dealers out there who will bend over backwards for people, yes it costs a little more but the after sales is usually first class. I know my dealer lets me take things home and try them out first and if i like i keep it, then pay him. The internet and cheap dealers are crap in comparison, but hey you can save a few quid.:rolleyes:
     
  3. Dean

    Dean
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    Just to point out that most dealers, say Sevenoaks are quite happy to give demo's without any pressure to the customer. So why should I feel guilty about getting a demo done and then saving, as you say up to 50%, somewhere else? Ok I too get on with my dealers but that's not gonna make me buy off them for £££'s more, simply as 'I get on well with them'????? I think we just have a different method of finding equipment - it's not meant to be a heated debate.
     
  4. chips

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    If everyone were to take that attitude, there would soon be no high street dealers left :rolleyes:.

    I very rarely demo equipment before I buy, but I research carefully and seek advice from those who really know their stuff.

    By the way, I do the same with cars.
     
  5. Phil Hinton

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    I'll be interested in Liams views Ian.

    As for Dean, do you honestly think that Sevenoaks and the like do this for fun? Have nothing better to do?

    It's not because i'm friendly with them, it's because i respect their time and money, and the service my Sevenoaks dealer gives me is first class. Would rather have first rate service and knowledge that I have a full back up help from my dealer (loan machines if mine needs repaired, home demos).

    It's attitudes like yours that will kill off the real dealers in this country. BTW to finish this one off, most internet dealers are not official product dealers at all and the cheap prices are because they are grey importing the goods.
     
  6. Dean

    Dean
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    Phil, you are missing the previous point completely - if it was a simple matter of £20-£40 quid then yeah, go get the demo and buy for a few pounds more. But as stated if you could save say £100, would you still pay £100 more just because the dealer has arranged a set up for you? And how does it waste dealers money in getting a quick demo. I used to work at Sevenoaks years ago as a student and to arrange a set up is hardly as 'taxing' as you make out. I also rarely buy hifi off the internet, it's all through Sevenoaks mostly, but if I find a much better price, then guess what, I might do myself a favour and save some money.
     
  7. chips

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    It's a question of ethics, regardless of the sums involved.
     
  8. Phil Hinton

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    ^^Like he Said^^
     
  9. nathan_silly

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    Do you not realize dealers are people too?- with own bills, with their family & business to look after?

    Do you think dealers get paid for staying in the shop all day? and when timewasters come in, demo stuff then say "Ta for that, I'll order it mail order- because it's cheaper" don't you think it pisses them off- when they could have spent that time with other customers?

    Of course you're not forced to buy that model, but I certainly wouldn't demo something unless I needed that type of item.

    May I ask what your job is Dean? How would you feel if I deducted two hours of your wage - whilst you carry on working?

    Ah I see you're a student.. I have a IT background.

    If I ask you to connect up 20 computers & a server, install OS on the server & workstations, create user accounts etc- for nothing- would you do it?
     
  10. Dean

    Dean
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    I seem to remember getting paid at Sevenoaks Watford (manager Steve Kirsh) at £5 an hour regardless of whether the customers that I set up demo's for bought them or not. Ok there's comission so obviously I would like to get a little percentage more. I think you need to rethink the economy of how people spend their money. It's a balancing act - many variables, service, friendliness, impartial advice, price... I would perfectly understand if one of my ex-customers at the Watford branch declined to buy because he (he is a person too, has bills to pay and a family to feed) found it £££'s less somewhere else. Sevenoaks IMO are the best deales in that they do not 'blag' customers and allows customers to make decisions. Now can we get back to the topic of SVS subs pls...
     
  11. nathan_silly

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    Still haven't answered the questions though have you?

    "If I ask you to connect up 20 computers & a server, install OS on the server & workstations, create user accounts etc- for nothing- would you do it?"

    and

    How would you feel if I deducted two hours of your wage - whilst you carry on working?

    There's a slight difference between being a employee and the director of a company. Figure it out.
     
  12. Dean

    Dean
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    This is really self explanatory. But to directly answer your question, it depends. I might do it for a favour but I wouldn't get into an IT job where I would work all day and come back with no pay check. I thought that would be obvious.
     
  13. nathan_silly

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    Well there you go then.

    Next time you waste a dealers time, all the time kidding the guy you're willing to buy (anything) from him, think about yourself doing hours of work for nowt.

    Perhaps next time you ask for another demo of a piece of kit- he'll refuse to demo anything. I certainly would, if I had my own hifi shop.

    The job of a employee is a "don't care" attitude.. once you have your own business spending hours with time wasters will change your feeling towards timewasters.
     
  14. chips

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    When you're in a hole, stop digging :rolleyes:.
     
  15. Stellavision

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    Where's my SVS thread gone?;)
    I may as well add my own comment now I'm here.
    As far as local dealers go, I have often used a High Street Pioneer dealer in town and also Audio T in Portsmouth and they have price matched other dealers found on the Internet.
    As an example, the shop I bought my VSX 2011 from had a marked price of over £900 and I pursuaded them to let it go for £700 after they checked the price of the other supplier I quoted to them.
    :D
     
  16. Ian J

    Ian J
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    It will be back later :D
     
  17. Dean

    Dean
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    Now I am not wishing to detract this thread further but have a couple of remarks about Nathan's comment, this is the last post I wish to discuss this.

    But just a few points, what's necessarily best for me may not be necessarily best for you Nathan. While I would love the luxury of having the financial freedom to walk into any old HiFi shop and pay the asking price, being a student that isn't always possible. I like having a friendly chat and spend the afternoon talking with my Sevenoaks dealer as it is a nice process of buying, rather than just clicking a few buttons on an Internet browser, and I like to hear what I buy first (which others disagreed with in that thread too!). In fact out of my system, everything except my Yammy was bought in the normal manner of going in having a demo and then getting the goods (I usually can't wait to get the gear badk home). But occasionally, where a huge saving can be made I would get a disconted price elsewhere, and have done like I say once with the Yammy which I picked up in Tottenham Court Road. Now I don't that make me a dealer 'time waster'? Just I think you shouldn't make such 'judgmental' remarks when there is a deeper story behind it.

    Regards,

    DEAN
     
  18. Craig Sowerby

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    Hi,

    I spend time setting up for dems and making sure the system can sound and look as good as is possible, i know a lot of guys just stick the kit on and away you go, some of us do have pride in our work and as they say time is money.

    thanks for the support guys.
     
  19. buns

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    I will not demo at a dealer with the express purpose of buying elsewhere. In fact i feel very bad about demoing unless there is a high possibility i will be buying because i dont like wasting peoples time.

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  20. Malice

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    Why not get all dealers to charge £50 for a full demo set up which will then be refunded on purchase plus a nominal discount off the kit bought? It may make people think twice aboiut demoing and buggering off elsewhere. Equally those who are genuine in wanting to buy off the dealer won't be put off and they get a "reward" with a nominal discount.

    Mal
     
  21. buns

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    I was thinking that too..... dealers should charge out their demo time. It might sound bad, but regular customers would probably get forgiven this charge because the dealer knows they arent taking them for a ride, so new customers can come in and get the expertise and listen then decide for themselves whether they will pay a bit more for that service or go get the cheapest...... either was the dealer does well.

    though i have to say i doubt that most potential customers wouldnt like it.

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  22. Branxx

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    "If I ask you to connect up 20 computers & a server, install OS on the server & workstations, create user accounts etc- for nothing- would you do it?"

    If you were selling above kit at 50% mark-up, you wouldn't mind setting up occasional kit for free as long as you sell one for every two you demo without closing the deal. If on the other hand you are marking-up only 10% (like on-line dealers) than you cannot afford any free demos.

    As much as high street dealers need high mark-up cushion to make the business viable (as not every demo result in a sale), it would be equally ridiculous if the Internet dealers are to start charging the same, just so the prices are same everywhere.

    Similar argument exists when buying from abroad, even from a foreign high street dealer. The inflated price in the UK is so much higher that multi-thousand pounds saving is readily achievable (for example check Lexicon MC-12B prices or set of flagship M&K speakers, etc).

    All this suggests that dealers in this country have properly taken 'time-wasters' into their expense equation. This thread is just an open admission of a wide spread trend.
     
  23. Spligsey

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    I dont agree with the demo charge at all.

    Say you demo a TAG Proc/amp & you dont like it, and they dont stock other manufacturers proc/amp, you've done your money.

    Adzman
     
  24. buns

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    Bugger, i lost my post!

    I dont think charging would work, but it would discourage the practice of demoing with no intent to purchase.

    The real problem is at the lower end. High end wont get sold online because its too much money and people like to demo. In this situation the dealer can compete easily enough. But sub £500 market is becoming badly damaged. While the prices will go down, fewer and fewer dealers will bother because the margins are low enough to start with let alone when someone online is undercutting them and costing them demos. So in 5 years i envisage that alot of lower end buyer will not have the choice to demo anywhere and will just be stuck with buying blind.

    This is the unfortunate legacy of the pricecutting internet dealer.

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  25. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Wowwww....

    Although there maybe an occasional product where 50% margin is possible for most in this industry 25-35% is closer to the mark.

    I would find deliberately going to a dealer who you had absolutely no intention of buying from , in order to get a demo, quite immoral.

    OnLine retailers can offer some exceptional service and due to the business model also exceptional pricing. Most fall down on the last bit though. The important bit, the bit where you have the stuff installed and set up correctly so that everything performs at its optimum. That's one of the areas that bricks and mortar dealers can do well. Of course the issue they have is that most do not charge for this service. As I am sure most of us are aware a free service has no value so this expertise has lost any value in the eyes of the consumer. Just like demo facilities. They are free.

    I'd expect that while charges for demo's will probably not happen other things will. Bricks and Mortar dealers will start to go out of business if they do not change their business practice. Lower prices with chargeable services is a way forward. The other tack they may take is to deal only in products with limited distibution. The end result most probably being fewer dealers with fewer products on demonstration. The up side isthey will be commited to those products and are likely to have a high degree of competence in their use and set up.

    This change is already happening. Retailers are turning to custom installation where charging for time and knowledge is the norm.

    Just my own thoughts for the mix

    Gordon
     
  26. Adrenochrome

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    Any time i am in the market for new equipment i always try to get a demo at a local dealer with the intention of buying it from them (if of course i like it).

    But what i will not do is pay way over the odds for it. i.e. no discount whatsoever under any circumstances as was once quoted to me in a local dealers.

    As a business owner myself i think it isn't unfair to try for a 10% discount.

    Adrenochrome.
     
  27. bob1

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    I went to superfi ,if you ask you get their internet price anyway.Having said that the demo i had was poor and i don't agree that you should pay for a demo. These people work there and should do something other than sitting on the arses with a blank face all day waiting for a sale to come to them.

    But i would also say that i would be wrong to have a large demo with no intention to buy from them even if they are going to rip you off.
     
  28. buns

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    in the smaller buys i have made with dealers i have found them very willing to give up to about 10%if you ask nicely. But if i know they will cost too much, i wont demo with them. Everyone is different on this point, but i just would feel bad about it. If i knew i could get it alot cheaper elsewhere, i would probably make that clear prior to trying to demo, if they agree they can come to some sort of agreement id be happy enough.

    The point i was making earlier and that Gordon basically backed up is that the likes of superfi and richersounds are the ones who are going to survive this whole situation. Specialised dealers will become more specialised and the superfi market will no longer be available with the specialists. And unfortunately most of us will already have our reservations about the box shifter types.....

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    ps. i think it is unfair to suggest dealers are going to 'rip you off'.
     
  29. gringottsdirect

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    If we agree that this practice happens often, i.e. having advice and a demo from a store then buying mail order, setting aside morals for a moment, look at this another way.
    How many will still buy mail order if they are not able to see, touch, hear or see a product in a store first ?
    Gordon and buns have made reference to the already changing situation. Stores will concentrate on brands with restricted distribution plus home installation, multi-room and so on.
    The under £500 market will have a major problem, for the makers, the mail order dealers and the customers. If customers won't buy a product blind, then mail order dealers won't sell it, makers will pull out of that market and that will be the end of inexpensive separates.
    If you think this won't happen, where are Kenwood and Technics now ? :rolleyes:
     
  30. buns

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    That would be a logical conclusion..... the drive to make cinema more available would thus have managed the complete opposite and we would be back where we were 10 years ago.

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