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Dead pixel counting on the Sony 11HT

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by miro, Nov 24, 2001.

  1. miro

    miro
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    Hello all Sony 11HT owners.

    As a soon-to-be buyer of a Sony 11HT I would like to know how many dead pixels you had when the unit was new, straight out of the box? How many now?

    Following the AV-Sales Dead pixels thread, I am a little concerned if an exchange is needed. I know that Sony inspects the pj and deems it either as yes or no to an exchange. They use the phrase "excessive damage" to LCDs.

    As a new pj with new panels, perhaps dead pixels are now rarer than I think?

    Please contribute to build a picture. Thanks.

    Miro.
     
  2. leon

    leon
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    i am also buying a 11ht in 2 weeks i have my screen on order and the mount ,i have a 400qm sony and that only has 2 dead pixels and its 3 years old thats why im buying another one ,
    where are you buying yours from ??
    and i would not worry about dead pixels you must get very close to see them and you must be looking for them in the first place.
     
  3. LV426

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    FWIW, my 10HT has two pixels fixed in the bright state. I've no idea if/how many in the dark state, 'cos you just can't see those. It has had 800 hours use in 17 months, and the situation is completely unchanged in that time. It is rare for pixels to fail in service.

    The blue one is completely undetectable from more than 2 feet away from the 8 foot screen. The green one can be seen, just, at normal viewing distance, but you REALLY have to search for it and can easily lose sight of it. I showed my system to two friends with good eyesight, told them that there was a visible green pixel. Neither could find it.

    After all, each pixel is only a millionth of the screen area in size. So, my view is, one or two scattered green ones is livable with. You can cope with more red or blue because they are less detectable. If they are grouped together, or in a central part of the imsage you may, just, find them distracting enough to complain.
     
  4. miro

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    Thanks Nigel.

    I do feel somewhat rested with knowledge from yourself and others from AV and AVS forums. I have ordered a Sony 11HT this afternoon and will have it around next weekend (31 Nov or so). There still is a niggle, that of an obvious pixel in plain view. If its not acceptable to Sony, I could end up with a lemon - with a pimple!

    The majority of owners appear to have invisible dead pixels to the eye. Which is good. I shall not fret to much and just enjoy the pj. Thanks for the input.

    Miro.
     
  5. Guest

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    Miro,

    You've read the AV-Sales Dead Pixels thread so you'll know that I had two of the blue ones side by side. Believe me they are very noticeable, as I said, as soon as Toy Story 2 started up I noticed them straight away, as the 'camera' pans across the starfield I noticed the blue 'star' was not moving with the rest. I have a critical eye for errors of any sort on display devices so I may be more sensitive to this, but you should not part with cash unless (a) you demo a perfect PJ and then buy it or (b) your dealer is a saint and will gladly exchange it if there are any faults.

    (a) seems the safest bet to me.

    Congratulations on a good choice. If you are familiar with the pictures on the model 10 you will not be disappointed with the 11. As mentioned in the other thread, I use a GrayHawk screen which gives me a better black level but I demo'd the 11 on a white screen and it was still the dogs b0110cks.
     
  6. neo-uk

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    I have seen the 11ht but could not see any dead pixels from
    about 3 to 4 feet away from the screen its hard to find any since the sony 11ht has a very fine grid there are prob some pixels off but not what i noteced i think its like wining the lottery if you get an lcd projector without any dead pixels
     
  7. Paul D

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    With the Sonys (and other LCD), people think they have dead pixels when most of the time it's just dust.

    With the screen showing a black/blank signal, go right up to the screen. You will see the greyish/greenish "glow" of the LCD grid.

    If you scan the panel, you can normally see loads of green blobs. Some even wobble!, some are different colours. These are just dust. Most of these will move/clear on there own(try running with cinema black off etc). If running the PJ with full fan speed fails to dislodge them, you can clean the panels with compressed air. But since these blobs cannot be see more than a few feet back, i wouldn't bother.

    Bigger dust blobs, can be seen from further back. And can look like a bad pixel. They can show as any colour. Try using the focus to see if when you defocus the picture, they become sharper. If they sharpen differently to the image, its shows you its not the panel/pixel etc.

    Pixels can fail in three ways:- "on" /"off" /"50-50"

    "off" is not too bad, as it will just look like a dust spot on a white screen etc. Almost impossible to see during normal use.

    "50-50" is a strange one. On black scenes it will look like a small mark/spot(depending on which colour pixel). On white scenes it may not be noticable at all(white is made up of the three colours etc). Depending on what colour pixel it is, it will change colour depending on what colour pixels are showing next to it!. I think this one would just be subject to more viewing etc.

    A full stuck "on" (not dust) pixel will show up as a very bright "pin prick" of whatever colour it is. They will be visable from normal viewing distances. I'm not saying the picture would be spoilt, as it depends if you could resist looking for it all the time. And on the SonyVW10/11ht they are very small.

    I made sure before i bought my VW10ht, that i could swop it if it had "ANY" bad pixels. As it worked out, it was totally perfect. I must admit i took a couple hours checking the panel, using a laptop with svideo out. I used a paint program to display white/red/green/blue. This is when i thought i had a couple of bad pixels. I soon realised, they were only dust after they either dissappeared or wobbled!.

    I thought i knew what dead pixels looked like until i saw my first "full on" one. There is NO mistaking them.

    I know projector makers claim one dead pixel in hundreds of thousand is exceptable. I DON'T.
    If it was a business projector, then yes. A few dead ones on a personal laptop, then yes.
    On a projector used for movie watching, then NO!
    WHY?. I believe "anything" in a picture that draws your attention to it, is not acceptable. You are buying it soley to display an image. It should do this without defect.

    If one manufacturer found a way to make perfect panels all the time. They would be telling us not to buy others makers "poor" quality machines. The would be telling us, we should be seeing a "perfect" picture etc.

    "all" display technology have their drawbacks. Dead pixels on LCDs should not have to be a lottery.

    Try to see the unit before buying if possible.

    PS I loved my VW10HT, so the new VW11HT with a greyhawk type screen should be very good. I sold my VW10 to buy a CRT, due to the true black thing. But the black level was the "only" thing i wasn't happy with.
     
  8. IMACX

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    To Nigel
    'So, my view is, one or two scattered green ones is livable with. '

    I am afraid that does not cut it........how much are we spending on PJ's and you find its not 100% This is how companies get away with producing less than quality products.
    You must be very easy going..........when I spend this amount I expect a quality product. My Sanyo has 2 dead pixels and they really **** me off. Sorry mate........
     
  9. delta

    delta
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    The manufacturers of LCD projecors include a discalimer in their brochures stating that the pixel count will be at least 99.9% in working order. Therefore, they exempt themselves from court action. However, given enough compalints from custoemrs they may have a rethink, but for 100% accuracy we will have to pay more.
     
  10. Guest

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    Fulabeer,

    You are absolutely spot on with what you are saying. Pity you didn't get to see the 11 before you sold your 10. Alas, once CRT, always CRT, as they say. However, no one should have any illusions about the 11, its black level is much better, better still with a GrayHawk but its NOT 'liquid black'.

    I'm glad to see I'm not alone as far as dead pixels are concerned, my view is that you pay your money (and they ain't cheap) so you should expect 100%, nothing less. To those who reckon we would have to pay more for perfection, we already do! Go to a dealer, pay a bit more and get exactly what you want. Try before you buy, if you can't then take it back if you have a problem. This is the 21st century guys, if manufacturers can get the majority of their products right they can get all of them right. Don't be a victim.
     
  11. LV426

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    Maybe its just that I'm a realist. Or maybe its because I have a bad green pixel (bright state) and I KNOW that it isn't an issue i.e. that it does NOT detract in any way from the experience.

    The point I have made in another thread, is that guranteed perfection costs money - and the only person who pays for this is......us.

    To measure how price sensitive people are, just look at how many people (in this forum, say) will seek out the absolutely cheapest supplier for their hardware and software. If you want perfection, you go to a retailer who will allow you to check the machine before paying for it. But so many people will save themselves a few pounds or even hundreds, by buying "blind" from the web.

    It the manufacturers gave a 100% guarantee, then it follows that they would need to charge more for their products because they would make us pay for the 99.99% ones that get thrown away. And people would stay away in droves.

    You can't have it both ways. On the whole, we happily(?) go out and buy TVs with poor geometry, poor convergence and/or poor voltage regulation "bounce". These faults are typical of CRT devices which are built down to a price, as most are.

    I've thought, many times, that maybe what manufacturers should do it give the consumer a choice - i.e., grade their products. They could sell the "perfect" ones at a premium, and the 99.99% ones at a discount.

    In fact, we probably already have this choice - by, as I say, being prepared to pay more to a dealer who will allow you to open the crate in the shop and evaluate the machine before you pay. I'd expect such a dealer to charge more than an e-trading box-shifter.

    So, my "realist" question is - how many of you with strong opinions on this 100% perfect thing, would pay, let's say, £6000 for your 11HT - when it's available on the web for, say £4500 - if the £6000 shop was prepared to let you "cherry pick" their stock for a good one? And how many would save your, say, £1500, and live with the consequences - provided that they aren't intrusive in normal use?
     
  12. leon

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    this may sound like a silly question but does anyone no what rights we have to taking these product back ????

    ive heard it 14 day (is this correct)
    i would love to see some one who is in the (no) about customers rights ...........post something ..
    if you do could you tell everyone what are our rights ,,do we as a customer not stand a chance when people put 99.9% on a product to get out of exchanging the item.
    most shops have a good customer service and they will exchange the product without any problems ,,but i would like to no my rights before i buy my 11ht in 2 weeks,,,,,,,,,
     
  13. chicken balti

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    Leon,

    You make a good point. I've always regarded consumers rights as not worth the hot air they're written on. Realistically though we must have some form of protection, so what is it? I have a personal interest in this for slightly different reasons but I would like to hear from anyone who can state in easy to read, non-bu11****, black and white terms exactly what the law states and how far it is prepared to back us up.

    Over to you legal types then.
     
  14. leon

    leon
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  15. AlfaKhan

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