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Dd v Dts

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by pat clancy, Jan 15, 2001.

  1. pat clancy

    pat clancy
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    i watched the patriot,good film,but what about the sound,the surround action is amazing,left to right bombs and bullets.
    to be honest dolby is just as good as dts,i dont think the sound can get any better.i,ve made comparisons with private ryan,a bugs life, i,m sorry dolby is fine for me ,dts is good,about the same i,d say.what do others think,how do they differ for you.i have pioneer626 ,yam a5,paradigm pdr10,kef 1s,centre 1,nse105 rear.
     
  2. Guest

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    Which films have you compared DD vs dts? I mean the same film with different soundtracks.
     
  3. pat clancy

    pat clancy
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    i,ve heard private ryan,bugs life and the haunting,in dolby and dts,very little differance,dts just sounded louder,what differance do you hear,if any
     
  4. Jeff

    Jeff
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    "i dont think the sound can get any better". Trust me, sound technology advances didn't end with the Yami A5. In a few years time we will wonder how we ever coped with Dolby Digital or DTS. It will be like one of those Spectrum V C64 debates.
     
  5. Guest

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    Where did you hear 'Bug's Life' in dts?
     
  6. Black 5

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    As a general rule, DTS always sounds better to me - I don't think that it's louder, but it is more dynamic. Certainly at the levels at which I have my system.

    DTS uses less compression and therefore takes up more space on the disc (one of the reasons DTS versions aren't more readily available?) and maybe the differences in this can be quite subtle.

    SPR is a real treat and DTS is definitely the winner there, but having said that, I have 2 copies of Jurassic Park, the second DD version acquired because of the lack of real bass on the DTS one - proof that there's no guarantees either way.
     
  7. Guest

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    There is a difference between the two and i would always go with DTS first.But i do agree with the comment about Jurassic park,for some reason it is not as dynamic when it comes to the lower end.

    I do however think that it also depends on other things such as the chipset used for decoding in your amp.Obviously the cheaper the amp the cheaper the components and THIS makes a difference.Also take in to consideration your Speakers,again cheap equals cheap,and finally is it set up correctly and do you use an active sub which is calibrated correctly.All these things make a difference and in a less capable system there certainly wont appear to be a difference between the two because your components cant reproduce the dynamics.I am not having a go and telling people to buy expensive gear, but just pointing out some home truths.If you consider yourself to have a good quality set up and still cant hear a difference then fair enough.Just out of interest what equipment do you own....

    Phil.
     
  8. Guest

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    Sorry Pat just realised you mentioned your equipment in the first thread.Good amp the Yam A5, but your not possibly getting the best out of it with your speaker package,which is not a dig just an observation.You should maybe do the same objective test betwenn DTS and Dolby on a different speaker package such as a Kef THX or M&K set using the A5 and i'm sure you will eat your words......

    kindest regards
    Phil.
     
  9. Guest

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    Sorry Pat, gotta disagree on this one.

    I have reviewed many DD vs DTS discs over at www.dvddebate.com and www.bulletsnbabesdvds.com.

    The verdict is clearly in the DTS camp for all the titles namely MiB, Galaxy Quest, Bowfinger, Bone Collector, Fantasia, Antz, Fantasia 2000, Nightmare Before Christmas, Sixth Sense (Jap), Jaws (absolutely HUGE diff), and of course Jurassic Park and Lost World (more on that later).

    The difference can be generalised by focusing on higher high points and deeper, more controlled Bass and LFE. The Sub on SPR is far superior and the clarity and richness of the Animated titles puts them ahead. I would agree that your speaker package is not the best to make this decision.

    As far as the Dino movies go there has been plenty of discussion and analysis regarding the Bass and LFE (or lack of it) on the R1 DTS discs. The common misconception is that some Amps are incorrectly set for DTS Bass. If your Amp (and my Yamaha A2 was this way so your A5 probably is as well) has a DTS Setting for Bass and LFE you'll typically find it set to 0db which is the setting for DTS Music CDs. It needs to be increased to +9 or +10db for DTS Movies. You'll find that this brings alive the DTS Jurassic Park and Lost World and improves them beyond the DD versions. This has been extensively researched on the Hometheatre forum (URL eludes me).

    Its worth pointing out that older titles rereleased with DTS tracks do not have such a marked improvement over DD, often being slightly louder by around 4db. This does not mean they are better. The R1 Lethal Weapon rereleases was a case in point here. However the rerelease of Twister was much better.

    Jaws is the one you should try, a damn chilling DTS track compared to a mediocre DD track.

    Regards Neil.

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  10. Guest

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    Good points Neil, i agree, did not know about the settings on the Yamaha Amps,infact i'm positive that the lfe settings on my A2 did not go into the + setting but stopped at 0db,although i'm not in a position to test it.
    Phil
     
  11. pat clancy

    pat clancy
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    i must say i havn,t heard jaws in dts,the dd mix wasn,t up to much.so it seems the dts gives more presence.i bought my kefs mainly for music,and they sound great to me,so i think if they are good for music then they are fine for guns,bullets,dialogue,cars,planes,monsters,
    tanks etc,i mean these sounds are not hifi.
    i mean what differance would i hear if i bought kef thx package.so am i right in saying dts gives more oomph over dd.
    my dts lfe is set to +3 is it too low,and ddis-11.
    sorry pete i meant antz in dts
     
  12. Black 5

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    Pat,

    It's not so much oomph as dynamics - the sounds seem to be more immediate and 'in your face'. Turned up loud this can be a disconcerting feeling in some movies, but you get used to it [​IMG]

    Phil,

    I use a TMA AV32R and it's only the Jurassic Park disc that seems to suffer from lack of bass - other DTS discs (SPR particularly) are fine.
     
  13. bradavon

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    I would agree I can't notice the difference apart from it is defiantly louder (which doesn't make the quality any better).

    I have watched selected scenes in U-571 and both sounded the same.
     
  14. Guest

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    Hi Pat,

    figured it might be Antz you were refering to!

    I'd pretty much go along with Jenz.. on the differences between DD & dts.

    All I would add is that I did find some discs, for example the Lethal Weapon trilogy, Jaws and a couple of modern films such as Teaching Mrs Tingle and Out of Sight didn't have quite the difference between DD & dts that others such as 'Ryan', Waterworld, Antz etc did. This could be put down to the age of the film (pre DD thus requiring a full remix - DD & dts would be sourced from the same master), and a soundtrack lacking in deep bass and/or precision surround sonics.

    I held off dts for a couple of years until taking the plunge, haven't looked back since and I'm in the process of replacing as many DD only titles as possible.

    Current kit:

    Denon AVC-A1 amp
    Denon AVD-1000 dts Decoder
    Def Tech BP2002's (front)
    Def Tech BP10b's (surround)
    Def Tech CLR 2000 (centre)

    Room: 25' x 14' x 8'

    All my listening comparisons were done after balancing dB readings between DD & dts with a SPL meter to acheive the same volume levels.

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  15. Arthur.S

    Arthur.S
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    For me DTS definitely has the edge. Check out the beginning of T2 ultimate when the 'time pods' arrive. I've had the original DD disc for a couple of years, which is excellent, but the difference in detail & atmosphere in the DTS mix knocked me out.

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  16. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Hi,

    For me, I do prefer a DTS soundtrack! It simply sounds clearer and better - more authentic to hearing it for real, if you get what I mean.

    However, as I only own a Nicam Stereo 4:3 TV, then not all DTS or Dolby 5.1 soundtracks sound as clear as they should. By this, I simply mean, that the sound comes out as a mish-mash of effects, talking and music, and you can't hear what is being said as clearly as you should be able to.

    This is only my opinion though!

    Pooch
     
  17. Guest

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    Yep DTS personally wins it. After all there's no beating Armageddon DTS, or Cutthroat Island DTS (great audio shame about the ahem film).

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  18. Guest

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    Did anyone read the article about this in what tv&video ?

    It was basically saying that Dolby Labs proved there wasn't a quality difference between the two but they were both mixed differently i.e. more bass and treble for DTS. In some cases they're actually completely different sound tracks.

    I personnally prefer 5.1 mixed by DTS [​IMG]


    [This message has been edited by JUS (edited 18-01-2001).]
     
  19. Black 5

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    JUS,

    Sounds like Dolby are on the backfoot here if they feel the need to 'prove' they're the same quality [​IMG]

    I still understand there is a lot more compression used on Dolby soundtracks than DTS - can Dolby say that doesn't make a difference? Has anyone listened to Radio 1 lately on a decent hi-fi? A cheap tranny sounds better because of the amount of compression used.

    Thanks to Jenz. I managed to get the LFE setting increased above 0db on my AV32R - it's possible to increase the setting while no disc is playing, but only possible to take it to -ve when a disc is in - bit strange that. Worked a treat with JP though [​IMG]
     
  20. peopleIknow

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    Is DTS better than DD, clearly from all that as been written it is.

    However, I think it's time we got some perspective on the issue. From the pro DTS camp one is lead to believe that there is a big difference, when in fact the differences are more subtle, and dare I say subjective. Secondly it as been widely reported that to hear theses difference one needs a quality system. What price level are we taking, £1,000, £5,000, or even £10,000. Again from the comment's made I would say that we are taking levels exceeding what most people are will to spend / can afford. If this is true then no matter how much of an improvement DTS is over DD, few people are going to have the system to be able to tell.

    The reason I am a home cinema fan is because I love watching films, (the key word here being 'WATCHING'). Now I would like you all to be honest here. You got home tonight and Disney's Dinosaur (which you've not seen before) is behind the door, so the system's fired up and the disc is put in. By accident (yes, I know you can't) you select the DD track instead of the DTS. The big question as you watch, is would you, by hear alone, be able to tell to have selected the wrong sound track.

    I suspect not, because you like me would be too caught up with the film itself to notice.

     
  21. Guest

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    From a purely personal point of view, I prefer the term 'experience' a film. Watching almost consigns the audio to being an afterthought. For me audio is 60% of the whole experience (and no, I'm not partially sighted)
     
  22. Dave H

    Dave H
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    Hi I have four Dts films SPR Twister T2 UE Jaws and they all sound realy great especialy SPR and Jaws ,I had to turn the sub down on jaws it was making the plates in the kitchen vibrate!!
    PS my system is.
    Yamaha DSP A1
    Toshiba 2109
    fronts cerwin vega AT 80's
    center paridium 250 (I think)
    rears canon s30's
    sub Rel 100e
    TV Panasonic 32PK1
    Cheers




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  23. Ars longa, vita brevis

    Ars longa, vita brevis
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    quite agree, audio is 60% of 'experience' (why i like laserdisc)

    'experience' sounds a bit cheesy, like the teacher in beavis and butthead 'a positive learning exerience'

    how about 'beholding' a film

    perhaps a little biblical

    any better suggestions
     
  24. peopleIknow

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    There seems to be a bit of nit picking here, watching, experience, what's the difference, it's all the same to me, but yes I agree the sound is important, however the point I was trying to make was not that the sound is not important, just that when I watch a film it doesn't make that much difference whether it's a DTS or DD sound track, as they both sound brilliant.

    As I said in my previous post, the differnces are small, and I doubt that in a blind test anybody would be able to tell the difference.

    So let's get on with watching the films, instead of making a big deal out of whether it as a DTS or DD sound track.


     
  25. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    Interesting debate this.
    I like DTS over DD I think.
    But I'm not sure.

    What sticks in my mind though is a back page feature by HCC about 18-24 months ago. They covered a DD vrs. DTS in a dealers showroom blind and all that, I think it may have been Stereo Stereo.
    DD came out as champ.
    Remember the article?
    And that was with people in the industry.


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  26. pat clancy

    pat clancy
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    Yes general your right,and the film was ,daylight, with sly,i remember it well,it was interesting to see these experts prefer dolby over dts,especially with it being a blind test.
     
  27. Guest

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    Daylight was one of the very early dts DVD's that had the rears pumped up to rather unnatural levels. It would be interesting to see the same test done this year with some of the dual soundtrack discs like T2:UE, Se7en etc, as well as the separate disc versions of films like SPR, Galaxy Quest & MiB.

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  28. Guest

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    At the end of the day it's all personal preference...you like what you like because you like it.

    Anyway, without sounding dumb...what film is SPR? I've read through the whole debate and am still none the wiser.

    A confused KC.
     
  29. tee

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    As good as Dolby Digital is, for me DTS is much better. When comparing a Digital and DTS soundrack it's obvious that bass on the DTS track is much tighter and hits much harder, also the overall soundtrack is much more 'dynamic'.

    I've compared both versions of Galaxy Quest, Saving Private Ryan (SPR KC [​IMG]) and Titan to name just three on my modest setup and there really is no contest. DTS wins every time.

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  30. MacReady

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    A few of you have implied that to appreciate any difference in DD and DTS the you must have a top notch system, well my system comprises of :

    Pioneer VSX 808 amp
    Panasonic DVDA160 DVD player
    Pioneer CLD 925 LD player
    Yamaha ADP 1 RF de-mod
    Toshiba WP 03B TV
    Eltax Chroma Speakers
    Paradigm PDR-10 sub

    : and I can tell the difference quite easily on most DTS movies.
    I have listened to movies such as Titan AE, The Bone Collector, T2 UE, Galaxy Quest, Blade, Twister and The Haunting back to back and the DTS track always sounds more lifelike (for want of a better word).

    Someone also mentioned that if the DD track was accidentally selected would we be able to tell the difference...well I honestly can say yes!

    I once put Titan AE on and started the movie straight from the menu screen (without cahnging the sound to DTS). I then went to make a coffee and when I came back in the room and sat down I thought the sound was not as clear and precise as I thought it had been before. For around half an hour I sat checking all the settings on my amp and sub making sure my Wife had not been playing with them and then I suddenly realised that the little DTS logo was not lit up on the amp display...so I switched the sound to DTS and noticed the difference straight away.

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