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DD: no sound for short periods; DTS: on some DVD the sound is disrupted

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by lenny, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. lenny

    lenny
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    Good evening,

    I'm experimenting some strange behaviors on my devices (DVD32FLR with last SW connected to AV192R with latest SW via coaxial + sync and components cables).

    Dolby Digital: looking at Terminal yesterday and at Riddick last week the sound simply disappeared for 3 to 5 seconds, to come back later. I've gone back on the point where the phenomena started and everything worked fine. The phenomenon was stochastic... drop of voltage in the power supply?

    DTS: on some DVD (Collateral; I-Robot; The day after tomorrow) at certain precise point the sound coming from the AV192R is totally distorted, metallic... very weird to ear. Just before that point everything is fine, just after that point also, but if the driver went trough this precise point than the sound got disrupted... wrong mods on the AV192R?

    The unit and serial number of my AV192R are:
    Unit number: ID 0000 3131 5D8E6A 801C
    Serial number: AVP 90011912

    The unit was an exposition one at Sevenoacks Bristol and I bought it on May 2004.

    I already contacted the helpdesk but I did not get any satisfying answer (on the question about the last mods installed on my AV192R the only answer I got was "There is a lot of paper work to do...."), but they were very fast to sell me the PLIIx license and the communication SW between the unit and TMREQ...

    Any help on these subjects? Any old Tag employee knows the AV192R mentioned here?

    In advance many thanks for your help.

    Lenny
     
  2. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    I'd suspect the digital connecting lead first, replace it and see if the issue goes away? The problem may be within the cable and not at the RCA ends so substitution is the only practical way of being sure...... After that try another digital input socket, after that its a trip to the menders....
     
  3. Baracuda

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    I have had similar issues with my DVD32R and AV192R. I experienced that once the sound begins to go off, it gets progressively worse throughout the rest of the film. I found this behaviour only happened after my AV192R was kept in standby after a prolonged period say 5 or more days. By switching the AV192R off and disconnecting the power this seemed to cure it, so I could watch the rest of the film undistrubed. I spoke to the TMA helpdesk and they never heard of the problem. Are these symptoms the same as yours?

    The only difference I can see is that I already had the latest software upgrade and PLII, so its not PL at fault.
     
  4. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    I have used the DP for approx 2 years now, from release more or lessand after an awful first few months under close scrutiny at the "lab" clearing numerous bugs it has worked flawlessly and i wouldn't part with it.
    I too had experienced the DTS "metal mickey" effect, at that time it was well documented as such on the old Tag site and was linked to software, a subsequent SW release cleared all evidence of the bug and although i am exactly aware of what you are describing (although it was random in its showing) i have not heard mention of it for at least 18 months.

    Regards

    Steven
     
  5. bboy-mass

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    Hi,

    I had the same on my AV30R.

    Heres how I fixed it: :D

    Go through the setup wizard (you will not loose your settings, just hit enter), and go through to the end. Job done. :thumbsup:

    Its a bug in the software, and by using the wizard it seems to give the machine a wake up call.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards
    Mass
     
  6. Stevesky

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    Hi Guys,

    I think there are multiple issues that are getting all mixed together adding a bit of confusion to what is what.

    Issues on an AV30R will not be related to an AV32DP/192R, it's a completely different product with different software.

    Getting back to the original question can you let us know the software version that your unit is running on. It should be v4.31 as there was a tweak to the DTS support in that version.

    Next as Graham suggested check the cabling between the DVD player and AV. If in doubt temporarily swap the digital cable over with another one to rule out any intermitent contact issues.

    If all seems ok check to see if it still occurs when the sync link support is disabled in the menu.

    Finally is the point of failure at the point of where a disc layer change occurs (does the video freeze briefly as well). Let me know the Chapter and time of the point of failure on one of the discs and I'll see if it occurs on my system.

    In the case of the one off drop out while playing Dolby Digital I would check the disc for finger prints/dirt/dust etc. I have seen one off read errors from a DVD player that makes the AV think that it's now PCM (so it loads the PCM module), and a few milliseconds later goes back to valid Dolby Digital. The resultant is a 2-3 second mute while the DSP's are reloaded with the right modules again. If it was a power brown out the unit normally clicks (the output relays get pulled) and then if the power comes back it releases the output relays (click!)

    Steve
     
  7. lenny

    lenny
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    Many thanks for all your answers.

    I confirm that the SW version on the AV192R is the 4.31 and on the DAVID32FLOR the 3.85.

    Right now the two units are connected by a coaxial cable from the higher coax out of the DVD32FLR to the BNC input DVD192 of the AV192R.

    I'll perform all the tests you suggested in order to provide all the information you need. That includes the right time and chapters of all the disks that shows the problem (this can only be done with the DTS disks since the DD problem is not systematic). I'll do as soon I'll come back home this thursday.

    For your information this weekend the unit started clicking going in and out of standby, while watching at a movie, without stabilizing in any of the two states (the clickings were there Steve). I measured the voltage at the power supply and it was moving between 225V and 234V AC... I hope this one is only due to the voltage variations...

    Best regards,

    Lenny
     
  8. JamesPS

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    Steve,

    What does it mean: "there was a tweak to the DTS support in that version" ?.
    Should we have to avoid v4.31 if we experience problems with DTS?
     
  9. Stevesky

    Stevesky
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    No, the other way round. v4.31 improved DTS support for some corrupted bit streams.
     
  10. Bogi

    Bogi
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    As Stevesky says.

    I remember this quite clearly as I was one of the ones having problems. When playing DTS ES discrete on my Pio to my AV32RDP it was interpreted as DTS ES Matrix. The AV32RDP had the latest DTS libraries, but John explained to me that it had something to do with bits and the way the player (in my case a Pio 757ai) interpreted the bit stream.

    Anyway, the 4.31 SW cleared it all up.

    Cheers
     
  11. lenny

    lenny
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    Good morning,

    I've performed the tests and here the results:

    Since I upgraded the software on the AV192R to the 4.31 I've been able to reproduce the problem on the DTS streams on one disk over four tested (sorry but I can not watch more than 4 old movies in a weekend...).

    The movie is The day after Tomorrow, two disks edition. The chapter is 1.20 with 1minute 23 seconds remaining (when the main actor is pulling the luggages to load his truck in order to look after his boy stuck in New York...). the language is the French one.

    The problem occurs on both the players I've the pioneer 747A and the Tag DVD32FLR at the same point. I've redone the cabling and swapped the connections (using the DVD192R and the DVD inputs on the AV192R).

    So it come down to a problem with the disk or a problem with the decoder. Writing the mail I realized that I can better qualify the problem using the DTS decoder integrated into the Pioneer: I'll try that this night to drill another floor down.

    I'm surprised that the DVD on which I've found the problem in the past (I-Robot, Terminal and LOTR) have not shown the issue again: I think this is related to the change of the software on the AV192R.

    FYI, the Tag helpdesk has asked to send back the unit for control. Please Roversd have you any data regarding this AV192R on your files?

    Best regards,

    Lenny
     
  12. Plump

    Plump
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    Lenny,
    I can only confirm that I had no problems at all with The Terminal.

    Funny thing , I was watching it three times, first time first half, then second half one day after, and last weekend whole movie with my wife and her brothers.

    I actually have only DP unit, no AV192R , but there should be no difference with decoding issues.
     
  13. lenny

    lenny
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    I only hope it is not something related to the French DTS versions...

    Thanks for your answer Plump.

    Lenny
     
  14. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Actually depending on vintage and if the unit was upgraded to AV192R from a lesser vintage SP there may well be a subtle difference. There was a DTS issue that affected a small number of upgraded units I believe but this doesn't sound like one of them as they were all 96/24DTS issues, again I believe.
     
  15. Stevesky

    Stevesky
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    Hi Lenny,

    I think the change to v4.31 has ironed out most of the problems you were seeing, but I have a feeling that you have found 1 disc that still annoys the Analog Devices DTS decoder. When I was at TAG I was adding compatibility code around the decoder to handle all the various odd-ball situations that could annoy it, it's quite feasible that there are still some situations that are not covered. Really it should be impossible to break the decoder but in reallity it is possible. Trying to get them to investigate and fix such issues are difficult as on paper the decoder is certified by DTS as good and they don't like to mess with certified code...

    If your mains is still having a few brown-outs you could consider buying a computer UPS to plug your AV192R into. That should then stop it causing the outputs to get temporarily muted, relays clicking etc.
     
  16. lenny

    lenny
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    Hi Steve,

    I'll take the following course of action:

    1) install a power stabilizer on the AV192R : I do not think that a full UPS, with batteries and so on, is necessary: the main issue is to stabilize the power supply and to protect the unit from power surge.
    2) As soon the point 1 is executed I'll check if there is any further issue on the DD decoding (muting or clicking). By the way I checked the disks giving problems on the DD and there were perfect.
    3) I'll continue testing all my DTS movies: if The day after tomorrow is the only one that is causing problems I'll sit on it. If there are several disks that are faulty I'll send the unit to Tag.

    I'm surprised about the sensitivity the unit has on the power supply. Going down just to 225V makes the output to start clicking...

    Many thanks,

    Lenny
     
  17. Stevesky

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    Hi Lenny,

    It's normally the odd missing mains cycle that makes it click as the unit thinks that someone has hit the power switch, the unit should keep running down to around 200-210volts. Power surges are not your problem, I'm convinced it's brief power drop outs. A surge protector won't help, you need a UPS that can regenerate the mains. The AV doesn't take that much power so you can use the smallest UPS you can find.
     
  18. lenny

    lenny
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    Damn,

    so I do need a real UPS, no shortcuts possible (you know italians love shortcuts look at our beloved Berlusconi :rotfl: ).

    I'll start looking for one that will supply the AV192R and the projectors (to protect the lamp)...

    Thank for your help Steve, I'll keep you updated about the DTS and DD findings.

    Regards,

    Lenny
     
  19. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    I suppose it might be worth getting an electrician to check your house wiring for dodgy connections or even maybe a faulty wall socket? I know its against the Italian way to actually have good electrics but there must be one good electrician in the country :D
     
  20. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    I too have been to Italy, it is with some professional authority that i share Graham's view that it requires (from national distribution to domestic) "re-wiring".
    UPS with full mains regeneration would keep your processor happy.

    Steven
     
  21. Plump

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    Yes Lenny, put one UPS back home in Italy and lay 1500km oxigen free (if you do not know which one ask :D Lowrider) power cable to Paris. This will work.
    :rotfl:
     
  22. lenny

    lenny
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    Plump actually from my parents' house there are 2000km :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  23. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    About the same distance Joel was trying to run his sync link cable :rotfl: :rotfl: :devil:
     
  24. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    You may wish to address the issue of Voltage Drop!!!!

    Steven
     
  25. lenny

    lenny
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    Continuing watching my DTS movies and I found other two DVDs that have the problem.

    Underworld version 1 disk, French DTS track Ch 8 elapsed time within the chapter 10'24", total elapsed time from the beginning 118'31"

    Kill Bill vol2 version 2 disks, French DTS track ch 2 elapsed time within the chapter 2'00", total elapsed time from the beginning 16'13"

    I've not tested the english DTS track: It would be too much.

    These two examples shows that the problem is not related to the layer change on the disk (one problem occurring at the end of the movie the other at its very beginning).

    I'm going to continue looking for other DTS movies in order to have a complete list of DVDs which are causing problems.
    The IAG helpdesk wishes I send them the unit along with the faulty DVDs. Reading the previous posts I got it was Stevesky who developed the code to avoid such problems: are these developments still under way once he left the company? Could be possible that the problems come from HW components? Do you think that I should send the unit or live with the problems (with my wife having a "strange" smile each time that such fault occurs with such an expensive piece of equipment)?

    Best regards,

    Lenny
     
  26. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    All I can say is that kill bill Vol2 English DTS track plays from beginning to end faultlessly on my system.....
     
  27. liam_b

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    I don't know whether this is going to confuse matters or be helpful in tracking the problem... I've found 2 movies with DTS tracks that cause my DP to produce very strange noises, regardless of the DVD player used.

    Basic Instinct 10th Anniversary Special Edition, Disc 1 at 1hr19m32s (ch.23)

    Star Trek 7 Generations Special Edition, Disc 1 several places, I'll edit this when if find the exact places again, more than 1.
     
  28. JamesPS

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    Lenny,
    Have you got any news about DTS sound problem?
     
  29. lenny

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    Hi James PS,

    DD issues : all sorted out with the UPS.

    DTS issues :
    IAG has issued a service number and asked me to send the three DVDs along with the AV192R.
    I've not sent the unit yet because:

    1) I would like to find other DVDs
    2) I've to upgrade my amplifier, and I do not want to have my home cinema set up out of service twice.

    Honestly, if our friends in UK has not the same problem than me, and if the problem is only on very few DVDs, I'm wondering if it is worth to send the unit back for several weeks...

    I'll keep you informed on the progresses.

    Are you having the same problems? On the Spanish DTS tracks? It seems that there are no cases on English DTS tracks...

    Regards,

    Lenny
     
  30. Polecatpete

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    I do/did/do have a problem with DTS as well. IAG are currently looking at my DP along with another customers.. From what I have gathered, it's a software glitch which the R&D team are currently looking at.

    Not sure if we are talking about the same problem but with mine, listening to a film in DTS, at random points the processor seems to switch to an unusal TMA sound effect! - It clears if you mute, pause or change inputs....
     

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