Datasat RS20i Processor

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by AngelEyes, May 1, 2012.

  1. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  2. djnickm

    djnickm
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    With vat this must work out the same, thereabouts as a rhapsody with 8 x trinnov.

    Very interested to know how the Dirac makes the unit sound.
     
  3. lucmor444

    lucmor444
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    Dan Francis and a couple of others over at avsforums have compared the Datasat with the Rhapsody and Trinnov EQ - both units were well rated albeit the 3D mapping of the TEQ does apparenty set it apart from other EQ systems.

    The benefit of the Datasat over the Rhapsody and 8 x Trinnov is that it can currently apply Dirac Live EQ over 12 channels (compared to 8 for the Trinnov). Also, the Datasat is expected to get 16 channels of Dirac Live EQ in the future.
     
  4. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    EQ aside the ADA does seem better connected in terms of HDMI at least. Proprietary connections on the Datasat would make it possibly a more expensive option for the average consumer?
     
  5. lucmor444

    lucmor444
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    Certainly there are input limitations on the Datasat (in respect to what may be commonly expected and in many cases needed). However it does offer other advantages including 16 channels of digital inputs, digital outputs and it does come supplied with two db25 8 channel balanced cables to ease some output connection issues.
     
  6. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    I have been following that thread, despite Dan's efforts it seems very hard to compare the two options, so many options/settings/measuring techniques etc.

    Brave man for taking that comparison on, he must have spent ages working on it. I don't know if Datasat have the same philosophy but it seems ADA like to stay involvEd with a TEQ install over the long term, performing tweaks and optimisations remotely to fine tune to the users preferences over time.

    I do like the sound of that.

    Adam :)
     
  7. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    Ah I didn't realise that it came with the adapters, that makes life easier.

    Adam
     
  8. lucmor444

    lucmor444
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    The manual for the Datasat is available:

    Download | Datasat Digital Entertainment

    Apparently the RS20i is expected to get the advanced Dolby codecs this year (a major disadvantage for the unit without them) but Neil may have more details on this?
     
  9. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    Hi Guys,

    Wow - I turn around for a second and then there is a new thread with some sexy shots of the RS20i!

    First off it is important to understand a little about who DataSat are. A couple of years ago they purchased the Cinema Sound parts of DTS. When you go to see a film at the movies these days you don't get DTS sound you get DataSat sound. It is pretty cool to see a film poster with DataSat on the bottom and then listen to it using the DataSat processor!

    The RS20i is a development of the commercial unit, the AP20. The key hardware differences are that the RS20i has significantly better PSU and DACs resulting in higher SNR. In addition the case work is totally different and very sexy! That is a touchscreen on the front of the unit for example.

    The other major differences though are in the software. The entire xx20 range of processors are built on top of an extremely high performance DSP engine and basically all of the processor is implemented using software not hardware. That makes it a doddle to update with new features etc as required. The RS20i for example has an incredible bass management system and after some recent time with them they were able to make it do multiple sub setup exactly the way that I wanted! The RS20i also has a totally different menu structure more suited to the needs of residential work than being the workhorse of a commercial cinema.

    The unit is structured differently than any other processor I can think of but one thing to make clear right away - there is no analogue bypass on this baby - everything has to pass through the DSPs.

    As already noted you have 16x16 analogue and digital connections that can be routed in a most flexible manner in the device - hence the ease of working with multiple subs or side surrounds etc. In addition you can develop your own multiway cross overs in the unit and an add on card is available to give you up to 24 analogue output channels - tri-amped active 7.2 anyone? :)

    You then move on to the EQ section of the units - they have simple 1/3rd Octave, multiband Parametric and finally Dirac EQ built in and simultaneously functional. It even has an RTA built right in that shows your measured frequency on the touchscreen!

    The Dirac is where the device pulls away from the current high end flagship processors like the ADA, Bryston and Lexicon pieces without getting in to the ultra high end price points of TEQ based solutions.

    The Dirac can be thought of in a similar way to Audyssey in that it uses a single mic in multiple positions to build up a picture of the room. Where it massively differs from Audyssey is that the system gives you very high resolution details on the measured response and gives you free reign to adjust the sound curve to taste. House curve up 10dB in bass and down 10dB at 16k Hz - no problem! Flat as a pancake from 0 to 20k also no problem. it is also allows you to adjust the roll off points etc.

    From a calibration perspective this is a very powerful tool as it lets you concentrate on the response design rather than the technicalities of the filter design (a bit let using REW to autocalc filters but many orders of magnitude higher resolution).

    The Dirac works very well especially when accompanied by some manual sweetening. This results in a quite seductive sound from the RS20i, very smooth and liquid despite the resolution. This is not what I had expected based on my past experiences of devices like this that are so heavily reliant on DSP for everything.

    One of the other cool things on the device is that the unit is not only an Audio processor, it actually functions as a home control processor! It has a built in macro programming language which allows you to do some pretty complex operations via GPIO, RS232 or Ethernet. The reason for this feature is that in a commercial theatre you need to be able to automate curtains, lights etc and the DataSat removes the need for more boxes!

    In terms of remote control - you can forget IR I am afraid. What it does have is a VNC server built right in so that you can bring up a mirror of the front panel on your iPad etc. When we are working with it we have the iPad runing with the VU meters etc which is very very nice.

    One comment on the pricing and why Genesis Technologies were so keen to position the RS20i where we have. The RS20i is £14500+VAT which includes setup. The setup kit is £2500+VAT so we do not expect many to wish to buy this themselves!!!

    The ADA Rhapsody is £7k+VAT but the TEQ8 is £14k+VAT. That is £21k for that combo folks. The clear advantage of the TEQ is the 3D remapping but I feel that this operates best when more channels are utilised for surrounds or height. In a standard 7.x system there is little to choose performance wise - some will prefer one sound and some the other. In that context £14.5k is a perfect point right in the middle.
     
  10. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    As already noted we have this unit on demo in our facility in Bracknell but the other cool thing is that the DataSat facility is just down the road in Twyford.

    Believe it or not that is where all of the DataSat soundtracks are encoded and verified and it makes for a great experience for those interested in cinema sound.

    I am sure there is a chance to arrange a forum day at both facilities for those interested in adding an RS20i to a new or existing setup.
     
  11. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    Thanks Neil, it certainly sounds like a very interesting product indeed.

    [-]So I take it you have this in the rack on the cinema room at the moment? :)[/-]

    Edit: posts crossed in the ether

    Adam :)
     
  12. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    Wisdom room is run off the ADA Rhapsody and the cinema off the RS20i
     
  13. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    I can sense Nick rubbing his trouser legs already :D
     
  14. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    So I have heard this in action already then? :facepalm:

    Adam :D
     
  15. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    Yes and no. You have heard it but the system sounded poor compared to where it is now. We just got the production firmware installed!
     
  16. djnickm

    djnickm
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    Ha ha, I'm on my second pair of trousers today now! Lol

    This has me really interested. Especially as that price included install.

    Going to assess my finances as I do not want to come up to demo without the ability to be able to buy it if I like it.

    And a trip around the datasat facility would be super.
     
  17. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    So that is nick in. Who else wants to join the group?
     
  18. Ashmanuk

    Ashmanuk
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    I have my three children as a trade in offer ;) if not then that's me out :(. ;)
     
  19. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    You know me Neil, always up for AV fun and games but don't want to take the place of anyone who actually might be in the market for one! :)

    Adam
     
  20. Mr_Orange

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    You mean aside from the already high £14.5k + VAT purchase price!?!?!?!
     
  21. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    But... But... It has a screen and everything!
     
  22. Wull

    Wull
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    Good one :laugh:
     
  23. Mr_Orange

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    Ha, ha, ha. So did the Rotel RSP-1098..... :devil:
     
  24. IcetomLT

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    Does Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Pro kit achieves the same not? Or Dirac does it in more sophisticated/detail/higher quality level?

    Also do I understand corectly, that it doesn't support Dolby TrueHD, only DD?
     
  25. lucmor444

    lucmor444
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    Dirac Live on the RS20i is a lot more flexible than Audyssey Pro - for example, you can save up to 20 different settings in the unit and the target curves you set are at a greater resolution.

    The advanced Dolby codecs are not yet available on the RS20i. It has been indicated that they will be available around the 3/4 qtr of this year via a software update. It appears there is no word yet on whether NeoX will be provided - maybe Neil knows something?
     
  26. abone

    abone
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    My Datasat RS20i has arrived in Silver and what a sexy looking beast it is. If it sounds as good as it looks it's going to be special.
     
  27. lucmor444

    lucmor444
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    Really looking forward to your thoughts on the RS20i and how it compares to the ADA.

    I have a black unit but am still waiting for my amp before I can get a chance to listen - the wait is killing me.
     
  28. djnickm

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    Blah blah blah.... No body cares. Move on.

    Excellent news andy, I can wait to hear your thoughts.
     
  29. abone

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    Is it black or Indigo has they call it ( a very dark blue) ? I couldn't make my mind up colour wise so I followed Dans advice and went for silver.
    I am looking forward to seeing how it compares with the Rhapsody in our room but I think Dirac will be the game changer in my opinion .
    But one thing I can say is the Rhapsody will be a tough act to follow they are a stunning processor with 2 Chanel music and movies. It's going to be interesting to see how the Datasat handles 2 Chanel duties with it being an all Digital device. I did spend a short time with it in London at Genesis but that was with pro audio technology speaker system using horn tweeters so a different sound than I am used to compared to my Aerial's but it did sound very very good.
    The most impressive thing was the Dirac and the
    ability to turn it on and off and the difference was incredible from what I thought was very good to incredible ( just a so much cleaner sound). So hopefully we should be up and running in the next couple of weeks or so , we are moving all the equipment out of the cinema into a rack in the next room and are are also considering adding a couple of extra subs to make use of the 4 sub outlets on the Datasat ( that Base drug it's so addictive ) .
    Best wishes Andy
     
  30. lucmor444

    lucmor444
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    Indigo is a better description of the colour but once racked and amongst the rest of my black gear it should match well. I think the silver is the more 'special' colour but I wanted a uniform colour for my kit as it is all on display.

    I have still to purchase the Dirac Live software for my unit (there are no current installers in Australia) plus the mic and preamp to enable a set up - my bank balance has taken a hit with the Datasat, a new power amp and a second sub but expect I will be ready for Dirac around August. While I wait for this I may try connecting my Audyssey SEQ to the RS20i to see how much of a difference Dirac actually achieves.

    I am used to waiting as I had the RS20i on order since October last year - it finally arrived in April.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012

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