Database of which HD players can zoom by about 1.3-1.4?

thornton

Novice Member
OK, the first thing is that I do NOT want to start another argument about whether it is OK to zoom a movie. We will never all agree on this.

What I do want to do is have a a thread which documents WHICH HD-DVD or Blue-ray players can (a) zoom a movie presented in about 2.35 to 2.4 to 1 in order to fill the vertical height of a screen, and, preferably (b) can do so preserving all the resolution detail that is available in the movie. Clearly (b) matters as there is in principle 1080 lines of detail in an HD film and that can be zoomed by up to 1.5 and still get uncompromised 720p (while more than filling the vertical height of a 720p screen) and indeed up to about 1.4 for uncompromised 768p.

I can state for a fact that the Toshiba E1 with 1.3 firmware cannot even do (a). Can owners of XE1, US models and PS3, Panasonic and Samsung BR players please make a quick comment as to what their experience is?

Please would moderators remove any replies making unhelpful comments about whether this should be allowed? Those of us with 720p and/or smaller screens should be able to do this is if we choose to do so, and I think a database thread saying what is possible on which machines would be helpful. Even my old SD DVD Panny 97 player can do it on SD discs!:lease:
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
What I do want to do is have a a thread which documents WHICH HD-DVD or Blue-ray players can (a) zoom a movie presented in about 2.35 to 2.4 to 1 in order to fill the vertical height of a screen, and, preferably (b) can do so preserving all the resolution detail that is available in the movie.

Sorry if you feel this is unhelpfull, but AFAIK what you are looking for is impossible. You can not zoom a movie presented in about 2.35 to 2.4 to 1 and still preserve all the resolution detail that is avaliable in the movie as you say.... :suicide:

However some HD players may eventually offer a zoom function but I don't think any do yet, at all.


Oh, just incase you hadn't seen it, this may be the answer to your prayers ;)
 

thornton

Novice Member
Sorry if you feel this is unhelpfull, but AFAIK what you are looking for is impossible. You can not zoom a movie presented in about 2.35 to 2.4 to 1 and still preserve all the resolution detail that is avaliable in the movie as you say.... :suicide:

I have been through this on another thread and you are mistaken. By "all the resolution detail that is available" I mean to say just that. I can generate a 720p signal in principle by an optimized scaling of a 1080p signal containing upper and lower black borders and keep ALL the vertical detail present in the actual movie part. I am throwing away black dots only. So (b) is possible. Oh and the reason I am making a fuss is that I do not have room for a bigger TV, so that JVC is not the answer!
 

bosque

Novice Member
The Toshiba HD E1 does have a zoom function - it's enabled when you play an HD disc encoded to zoom the picture, for example the Harry Potter HD DVD allows you to zoom the picture. Perhaps your database should list the HD discs with this function - not sure if Blu Ray discs allow you to do this, although they're in cahoots with Disney who are well known for ignoring OAR when it suits them.
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
Do these players have the specific zoom that the OP was talking about.. ie. to fill a screens verticle resolution exactly from a 2.35 image? or are they just a 2x , 3x etc zoom? ?
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Isn't the better solution to do this at the display end or could you use a VP to give this control with all sources?
 

thornton

Novice Member
The XE1 has 2x, 3x,etc.

For clarification, I have already noticed that some but not all of the discs I have allow a 2x, 4x and 8x zoom as part of the special features, and that the E1 does these zooms. These seem to me to be singularly useless and were not what I was asking about!
 

thornton

Novice Member
Isn't the better solution to do this at the display end or could you use a VP to give this control with all sources?

Perhaps - maybe we could have a database of screens that will do it as well? But changing my screen (a Panny PV500 with which I remain very happy) would be a lot more expensive than looking out for a player which can do it?
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
I suspect that a HD drive hooked up to a PC is your only option for a while to get specific zoom ratios...

As much as I appreciate that you want what you want, you are in the minority, so I can't see it being a priority for any of the manufacturers at the mo.
 

bosque

Novice Member
For clarification, I have already noticed that some but not all of the discs I have allow a 2x, 4x and 8x zoom as part of the special features, and that the E1 does these zooms. These seem to me to be singularly useless and were not what I was asking about!

But this is actually what you would be doing by distorting the picture to fill your screen, you'd be zooming the picture by some means or other whether it's 2x, 4x or 8x or some other zoom equation. I agree it seems singularly useless to do this for a movie and can only assume it's included so that people who buy porno can zoom into parts of the porn film - can't see any other practical reason for it.
 

thornton

Novice Member
But this is actually what you would be doing by distorting the picture to fill your screen, you'd be zooming the picture by some means or other whether it's 2x, 4x or 8x or some other zoom equation. I agree it seems singularly useless to do this for a movie and can only assume it's included so that people who buy porno can zoom into parts of the porn film - can't see any other practical reason for it.

You have not read what I said! I do not wish to "distort" the picture. I just want to expand it uniformly (without distortion, and with minimal loss of resolution information) by a factor sufficient to fill the vertical height of the screen, with the price of losing some edge material. As for being in a "minority", that is unproven. There are plenty of complaints from people elsewhere on these forums who are as annoyed as me, and I have already conceded it is a matter on which people will differ. The purists have already made their views felt and I have made it clear I am not interested in their views - this is a matter of end-user consumer choice. I think Bald Monkey's quote of Dubya is becoming a tad ironic......(though I appreciate the input).

So how about some more info from owers of PS3, Panasonic and Samsing Blue-Ray and maybe the LG??
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Perhaps - maybe we could have a database of screens that will do it as well? But changing my screen (a Panny PV500 with which I remain very happy) would be a lot more expensive than looking out for a player which can do it?

You are dealing with the HDMI specs here, which are probably constraining most pieces of equipment. You are just looking at the odd one that might bend the rules. If you use component then you might have much greater flexibility to do what you want with your existing kit, and my PV 500 seems fine with component :smashin: . The box you really need is a video processor for this however and this is serious money in comparison to what you have been talking. It might be worth investigating a cheap secondhand Lumagen however....
 

MAW

Banned
There is no info, it's simply not on the features list, what you want to do. The only way is a external VP, not cheap. As Nic points out, the HDMI spec expressly forbids this, it's meant to stop idiots screwing their systems up, but it also stops those who know exactly what they want from accomplishing it. I do understand what you want to do, and promise not to be judgemental, it's so trivial really! A 2nd hand Lumagen is your cheapest route. You need a quick button press to get rid of aspect ratio black bars, and restore the correct 1:1 zoom for 16:9 aspect material.
 

thornton

Novice Member
There is no info, it's simply not on the features list, what you want to do. The only way is a external VP,....

Well the high end Denon A1XVA SD DVD claims a zoom of 1.5 amongst its features, as well as the 2x and 3x also shared by the 2930 and 3930. My cheap Panny S97 upscaler has a host of scaling modes including precisely the one I am after in high def so to say this is "not on the features list" is not terribly well informed.

Actually I did not lose my cool about having my face sawn off. I thought it was rather funny - but having seen several other threads do to death the issue of whether this should be allowed I really did want to have a thread that established which machines might actually do it, rather than exchanging still more slanging! I have not got one truly useful answer to my question.

You really do not want to see me lose my cool.........

:devil: :devil:
 

MAW

Banned
Sorry, we were talking about hi def players last time I checked, like in the thread title. I know of none with zoom of that nature. 1.5 would be way over the top I'd have thought, losing you substantial parts of the top and bottom. Yes, a fair few SD or upscaling players do this. It's still contrary to the HDMI spec, I guess so far the HD players are sticking a bit more rigidly to it. Things could change, but I'll never know how effective it is cos I too would never use such a feature. Not much point in name calling over it though.
 

thornton

Novice Member
Sorry, we were talking about hi def players last time I checked, like in the thread title. I know of none with zoom of that nature. 1.5 would be way over the top I'd have thought, losing you substantial parts of the top and bottom. Yes, a fair few SD or upscaling players do this....

Indeed my request was for info on HDDVD and BR players that can do it - the SD comments were more to indicate (a) it was available in the market generally (b) my own frustration at having gone from a £120 Panny upscaler than can do it (albeit resulting in a less than totally crisp image!) to a £320 HD player that cannot. I agree 1.5 is too much of course - a figure of 1.32 would suit me fine and take 2.35:1 to the top and bottom edges and 2.4:1 to near enough.

So MAW - thanks for the comment - when you say "I know of none" are you saying definitely that none of the BR players on the UK market will do it, or do you have more limited experience?
 

Croker

Member
Sorry to move away from the main thrust of this debate, but I'd love to see that 2.35:1 JVC telly (linked to earlier in this thread) in action. I love OAR, and insist on using it these days - I naughtily used to vertically expand my picture to fill the black bars and not lose any of the image, but that was back in the days when I was more foolish.

However, I do enjoy going to the cinema and having the entire image fill the screen, regardless of the OAR, because their setup can obviously cope with the various fluctuations in screen size that each aspect ratio demands.

Are we destined not to have a home equivalent of such a system that doesn't involve a projector and a lot of cash?
 

bosque

Novice Member
I really did want to have a thread that established which machines might actually do it, rather than exchanging still more slanging! I have not got one truly useful answer to my question.

You really do not want to see me lose my cool.........

:devil: :devil:

Your question has been answered several times by some very helpful - and patient - posters and if you could manage to get rid of the bad attitude you might have noticed it.
 

thornton

Novice Member
MAW seems to be clear on the matter - thanks to MAW, even if it is purely negative. I checked the on-line Samsung manual as well myself this afternoon and there is indeed no mention of a zoom at all, which appears to confirm that. I also trawled the Panny site looking at the specs of the BR player there, and there is no mention of zoom there either....
 

MAW

Banned
That's cos they don't do it. I've played with most of the current and upcoming players, no sign of anything useful to you. Bad news is still news I'm afraid.
 

thornton

Novice Member
There is no info, it's simply not on the features list, what you want to do. The only way is a external VP, not cheap. ..... A 2nd hand Lumagen is your cheapest route. You need a quick button press to get rid of aspect ratio black bars, and restore the correct 1:1 zoom for 16:9 aspect material.

I was not going to post again on this topic but I have decided to indulge my philistine viewing tendencies with this gadget from Key Digital

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/kdhdmi4x1.asp

KD said they discontinued it as it was too expensive to manufacture but there are some left in the supply chain highly discounted. At that price I reckon it's worth a try...

I think this link may well be posted somewhere else (perhaps many times) on the avforums.com but if you have not been to this site before go have a look:

http://www.widescreen.org/index.shtml

I can imagine this being a rather polarizing site. For some it may well display the full extent of the ghastly contempt for consumer choice, and comes complete with self-indulgent quotes from outraged luvvies. No doubt others will view it as an eloquent statement on the behalf of the artists. Hmmm, now let me see, where do I stand???
 

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