DarbeeVision Visual Presence (DVP 5000) Video Enhancement Device Review

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by The News Bot, Aug 9, 2012.


    1. The News Bot

      The News Bot
      News Supplying Robot

      Joined:
      Sep 15, 2004
      Messages:
      25,931
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      106
      Location:
      Cyberspace
      Ratings:
      +446
      Reviewed by Mark Hodgkinson, 9th August 2012. Ultimately the Darbee Visual Presence is a bit of a toy. Toys can be fun but we’d definitely recommend a very extended demo before committing to purchase as you may find – as with so many playthings – the novelty soon wears off.
      Read the full review...
       
    2. Jenz

      Jenz
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 9, 2005
      Messages:
      516
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      67
      Location:
      Milton Keynes
      Ratings:
      +290
      Thankyou Mark for taking the time to review.

      I would have much preferred the review to note that the device is recommended to be set at % settings that are just below introducing artifacts and overprocessing. Many users are thoroughly enjoying the image set much lower than the 70% Hidef setting used in the review. Most are using between 40%-60% Hidef dependent on their video chain.

      It would have been nice to include in the review % settings with Spears & Munsil test plates that did not cause anomalies as after all no one wants those. I expect you would have found these in the 40-50% range.

      I feel that the comment about HDMI Cable swapping was also unrealistic. If Joe Public doesn't have an AV Receiver or an HDMI Switcher he is highly unlikely to buy a Darblet. Nor do I believe it represents poor value for money.

      I believe that this product does have a place in a properly calibrated system.

      "Darblet is so much better than Calibration" - Said no one, ever. But added in after it adds that little extra "WOW" that makes us love our movies even more.
       
    3. Nobbler

      Nobbler
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jan 23, 2012
      Messages:
      7,392
      Products Owned:
      5
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Ratings:
      +2,904
      But then that make the calibration pointless in the first place...and I'm sure many people will agree with you...but those that know will hopefully agree with me...;)

      Thanks for the HONEST (read truthful) review...:)
       
    4. hodg100

      hodg100
      Reviewer & News Writer

      Joined:
      Aug 8, 2005
      Messages:
      14,078
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      4
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +4,457
      Hi

      Actually all % setting introduce problems to the plate tests on the 3 displays I used it with.

      Maybe maybe not. I'm not privvy to all the people that have bought the device but I'd imagine some will find the 1 hdmi input a bit of a nuisance. It was a very minor criticism really.

      Subjective opinion - I believe it is poor vfm but if you're happy with yours, it's perfectly valid to disagree:)

      Again - you like it. I liked it sometimes but found I would change my mind in the very next scene.

      It's a really difficult product to review, in all honesty, but thankfully most people can get the chance for themselves using distance selling regs.

      Thanks for the comments!
       
    5. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
      Editor Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 18, 2001
      Messages:
      10,425
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      AVForums
      Ratings:
      +9,018
      I will add my response from the owners thread here, so people not following that get an answer to your points raised.

      The captures are at 70% so readers can follow with what Mark is describing. That is not to say that it was tested just at 70%, which it wasn't, and that point has now been added as a note to Mark's review to stop any misunderstanding.
      It is Mark's job to look at the product (whatever it is) with an open mind and without any leaning either way - and just describe what it does and report that. There is very little subjective opinion within our reviews that is backed up with the evidence found - and our reviews are very strong on methodology and a standards approach, as they always have been.

      It is the only scientific and valid way to assess a display device of any kind. However, our goal is also to never tell people what to buy and we always encourage them to demo and make up their own mind, (whatever the product) and decide if it suits them. He is very clear that many people will like the effect and will want to add one to their systems and the review doesn't discourage that; it is just reporting facts and what it does.
       
    6. Jenz

      Jenz
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 9, 2005
      Messages:
      516
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      67
      Location:
      Milton Keynes
      Ratings:
      +290
      Thank you Mark for replying. I now understand where you are coming from.

      Is there one thing you could add? Please could you add what Display Device was used to test? I realised that it did not say whereas all my comments on based on an Oppo 93 - RXV771 - Epson 9000 PJ - 104inch screen view.
       
    7. hodg100

      hodg100
      Reviewer & News Writer

      Joined:
      Aug 8, 2005
      Messages:
      14,078
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      4
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +4,457
      Sources - Panasonic BDT 300, PS3, XBox 360, Samsung BD-E8500M, TiVo
      Displays: Samsung PS60E6500 plasma, Samsung UE47ES5500 LED LCD and Samsung LE32C530 LCD TV.

      Just coincidence that I happen to have all Samsung display's up at the time but I don't think it's relevant as they all have different processors.

      I don't buy the view you need to see it on a projector either, it's effects are marked even on a 32" TV from a few feet but would be interesting to see it with one of the JVC's that feature e-shift.
       
    8. Jeff

      Jeff
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 13, 2000
      Messages:
      5,507
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      106
      Location:
      Basingstoke
      Ratings:
      +263
      I was a little bit puzzeled about the review until i saw the displays it was tested on. It's not a coicidence that a lot of people buying these devices are JVC projector owners. The Darbee helps mitigate some of the display wakenesses of lcos projectors in particular i.e sharpness and low ansi contrast. A panel display that doesn't suffer from these issues is going to highlight the side effects and not the benefits.
       
    9. Raine

      Raine
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Mar 2, 2008
      Messages:
      998
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Glasgow
      Ratings:
      +89
      But many DLP owners says it makes pretty favorable difference as well.
       
    10. Bumtious

      Bumtious
      Banned

      Joined:
      Oct 26, 2005
      Messages:
      8,126
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Prestwich Manchester
      Ratings:
      +7,650
      Think the review is 100% spot on Mark from what I saw and your comments are balanced.

      In fact I completely agree with every observation and comment you have made. It's probably one of the most accurate reviews I've seen.

      It's a marmite product. Some will like it, some won't.

      I understand why you've tried to measure what it does but your eyes are the best thing to use. For me it makes a HD look SD as it wreaks the pixel mapping as well as altering mid range luminance as you have shown with the zone plate.

      Far as I'm concerned as long as the rest of the chain is set up correctly them you can let this thing do its stuff if you like the effect, knowing that if you switch it off you can go back to a correct chain.

      Think the flack is completely unfair and it's sad that some people need to have their purchases ratified.

      Surely all that matters is that the person buying it feels it enhances their experience.

      Doesn't matter what anyone else says or any review says.
       
      Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
    11. deblee

      deblee
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Dec 16, 2010
      Messages:
      2,015
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Ratings:
      +140
      Hang on are you not the one over on the VT threads suggesting that they are near as dammit perfect tv's yet those sets (along with all the 2012 Panasonic plasma range) still have issues with DFC/Posterisation and weird artefacts when panning (not to mention vertical banding):confused:
       
    12. Scooby2000

      Scooby2000
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jan 9, 2010
      Messages:
      15,549
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Cambridge
      Ratings:
      +2,469
      Off topic and your comments are out of context. Lets not have personal attacks on here please. If you disagree then give your view, this is not the VT thread.:nono:
       
    13. Nobbler

      Nobbler
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jan 23, 2012
      Messages:
      7,392
      Products Owned:
      5
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Ratings:
      +2,904
      Spot on - but if you walked into a house to do a calibration, would you not insist that it's removed from the chain before you start? What do these things do to sensors? We've already deducted that mid-range luminance is affected so calibrating a system with one of these at the end of the chain is a no no - surely?:confused:
       
    14. Bumtious

      Bumtious
      Banned

      Joined:
      Oct 26, 2005
      Messages:
      8,126
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Prestwich Manchester
      Ratings:
      +7,650
      Sorry, Let clarify.

      Reason posting here cuz I can't in the thread

      You are right, heaving trying to test what it did and not being to measure any changes as they did not show, by eye it was obvious to me what it was doing. So you are right, you would calibrate with it out of the chain so you know that things are correct.

      You would then add it in to let it do it's stuff knowing that if you turn it off you return to a correctly calibrated chain.

      Forget any measurements with it in. The product is not intended to be used with patterns, it is intended to change, alter, enhance your image and some will like it, others won't.

      Take the product as intended. Add it in.

      If you like the effect then use it.

      Mark has correctly stated, if a director wanted to do the things it does, it could have easily been done during filming and post production.

      And FACT it moves the image away from where it should be by changing the luminance properties in certain areas of the final image.

      It's like music, you listen to a that has been produced and offered to you to buy and you decide to make the drums louder, but in doing that you can't hear some of the other indented instruments or the feel and ambience of what was intended.

      The Darbee IS altering what was offered to you.
      And as Marks patterns have shown and as I can see with my eyes, it is reducing resolution in creating that effect.
       
    15. deblee

      deblee
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Dec 16, 2010
      Messages:
      2,015
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Ratings:
      +140
      Apologies didn't mean to be personal, I was just suggesting that all said & done the device can be beneficial for "some" much like VT50 owners can have "perfect" sets although we all know Panasonic still have issues yet Steve(amongst others) still imply that the Panasonic sets are ok (near perfect even), hence my confusion
       
    16. soupdragon

      soupdragon
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jun 22, 2008
      Messages:
      8,612
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Location:
      Antrim NI
      Ratings:
      +4,457
      I find this post a little patronising to be honest. I'm assuming this piece from your signature gives you the entitlement to make such a post?

      THX Certified Video Professional Level I (just waiting for the time to do Level II exam!)

      Are you implying that anyone who likes the Darbee doesn't know what a good display should look like? I'm guessing you probably haven't even seen this device in action either?

      And yes, the review was honest and accurate. You've posted in such a way that you imply that you've read dishonest comments. I'm curious, where are these?

      It's clear that this device alters the image, some like the effect, some don't. Me personally, I mostly like it. I've said in the owners thread that at times the extra detail the Darbee brings out will be unwanted. For example, a pretty girl with a nice soft complexion will be actually more detailed with the Darbee on which means you can see more detail in her face. But, she looks prettier with the softer image. Thats just one example and there are plenty of others.

      In the overall scope of using the device, I personally still prefer it and understand the reasons why others such as our reviewer Mark doesn't like it. I watched the Lord of the Rings using Darbee and found it improved the overall viewing experience, particularly in the dark battle scenes where some of the subdued shadow detail was given a bit more sparkle and whether I was supposed to see this or not, the Darbee let me see it and I liked it.

      People's tastes are changing with high definition, we have hi-res phones, tablets, tv's, projectors etc and a lot of people are preferring more detailed images than we may have done 10 years ago. You only have to look at the winners of the photograph of the month over on the photography section to see how people vote and what type of images they prefer.

      This photo for example is quite beautiful. If you were standing beside the photographer, you would know that this is not how your eye would have seen this scene. The photo isn't completely natural - but it won the competition.

      [​IMG]

      Using the Lord of the Rings as an example, the point I'm making is this. It was filmed 10 years ago and in those 10 years, some people's taste's have changed and the Darbee is a tool to enhance the original masterpiece. With Darbee enabled it looks more detailed, the costumes and make up look incredible and for the vast majority of the movie, Darbee give's it a re-fresh. Almost like I've just bought a re-mastered blu-ray. We can debate the point about whether this is right or wrong but it doesn't matter in the end. People can read the AVforums review and understand whats happening. They can also read owners views and understand where they are coming from too. Then it comes down to personal choice.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
      • List
    17. Bumtious

      Bumtious
      Banned

      Joined:
      Oct 26, 2005
      Messages:
      8,126
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Prestwich Manchester
      Ratings:
      +7,650
      Hi,

      look there is a miss interpretation of words here. I have NEVER said they are perfect or near perfect. The perfect set does not exist, it never has and unlikely ever will, certainly not at this domestic level. My opinion is that set up properly they are the best out there. But they are not perfect, every set has it's issues and it's a question of what you can live with.

      Many of the problems and technology limitations can can be reduced to a level that they will not be distracting by good setting up.

      What is clear that most issues with ALL makes are blown out of proportion on here.

      Let's stay on topic. :)
       
    18. Nobbler

      Nobbler
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jan 23, 2012
      Messages:
      7,392
      Products Owned:
      5
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Ratings:
      +2,904
      The words in the signature don't give me the right to do anything mate - except calibrate displays to THX standards (well they will when I get exam 2 done...). And THX standards don't reccomend manipulating the picture once it's calibrated - which this piece of kit obviously does.
      I'm talking only as a calibrator here and not a user. I certainly wouldn't reccomend it to a client - and after discussing the calibration with them beforehand as part of the service, I'd be pretty peed if they asked one added after all the work.

      Each to their own mate - if it makes YOUR system better, then good on it.
      Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - I've put far to many man hours into calibrating my kit so that films look the way the director intended it to - I don't want to spoil that. It just so happens that three people on here that do calibrations of one sort (including the reviewer) aren't really keen on it. One's an assured advertiser and doesn't want to upset the management :)grin:) and the other is expected to produce honest, truthful, fact based reviews - which he's done and I take my hat off to him.
      Me - I've got nothing to lose (apart from my sanity) and if I think I wouldn't add it to a calibrated setup then that's my right...at no point have i dissed it. I've just said it shouldn't be added to a calibrated setup and I'm right...and yes, those words DO give me the right to say that...:D;)
       
    19. soupdragon

      soupdragon
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jun 22, 2008
      Messages:
      8,612
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Location:
      Antrim NI
      Ratings:
      +4,457
      No you haven't dissed it, I was asking if you've dissed the users which is why I found it patronising. Maybe you weren't trying to diss users but that the way it read.
      Nice post otherwise, feel free to get off the soap box now.
       
    20. Trollslayer

      Trollslayer
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 11, 2007
      Messages:
      24,540
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Poole
      Ratings:
      +9,768
      Without pouring oil on burning waters, it is clear this is a personal preference in the same way as valve sound - some prefer the 'warm' sound, others like myself prefer a clearer sound.
      I was keeping an eye open for this review and it is pretty much as I expected, I am thinking of spending the money on the new Sony GoogleTV because I find the 24FPS judder bothers me on some content. Getting XBMC on it later would bea bonus.
       
    21. zAndy1

      zAndy1
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Nov 26, 2002
      Messages:
      22,757
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      5
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +9,092
      Steve,
      If it was reducing the resolution surely that would have shown itself on the test pattern you used to check what it was doing , the test pattern that didn't alter one iota with the darbee in the chain and on 100%? You also said that having the darbee in the chain doesn't impact the calibration at all. I honestly don't get the comment that it makes HD look SD , there's no way it could be described as having as drastic an effect as that. I've found when I watch movies it definitely looks better to my eyes with the Darbee in the chain and on a setting of up to 50%. I think the review is pretty balanced overall , it's unfortunate all the pictures are of it on 70% as I kind of liken that to posting a review of a TV with all the pictures of it in dynamic mode really i.e. not very representative of its true potential. I would also argue this is a product that probably is at its best hooked up to a projector so it's unfortunate one wasn't used to check how it fared then.

      Cheers
      Andy
       
    22. Gradius2

      Gradius2
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Aug 18, 2006
      Messages:
      28
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      3
      Ratings:
      +3
      Thanks for review, now I can see all it does is just a sharpening filter.

      If you use Photoshop you know what I'm talking about.

      It also perform some differences (on image) and then apply sharpening at the end, not hard to reproduce.
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
    23. Gradius2

      Gradius2
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Aug 18, 2006
      Messages:
      28
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      3
      Ratings:
      +3
      The color issue wasn't fixed yet?
       
    24. Gradius2

      Gradius2
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Aug 18, 2006
      Messages:
      28
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      3
      Ratings:
      +3
    25. MultiRoom

      MultiRoom
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 1, 2009
      Messages:
      911
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Ratings:
      +360
      What I'm interested in knowing is how much lag does this device introduce? Anyone know?
       
    26. Jenz

      Jenz
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 9, 2005
      Messages:
      516
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      67
      Location:
      Milton Keynes
      Ratings:
      +290
      Hasn't introduced any noticeable lag on my Xbox 360 to my mind. Hope that helps.
       
    27. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
      Reviewer

      Joined:
      Oct 18, 2009
      Messages:
      9,908
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      AVForums
      Ratings:
      +9,532
      Mark addresses this in the review, he said there was no additional lag.
       
    28. PE06MCG

      PE06MCG
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 19, 2007
      Messages:
      825
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      28
      Ratings:
      +62
      Well done for having the Darbee as a review target, it must have been difficult getting some sort of headings to measure?
      Not sure if you agree with me but I see this more like a piece of effects software that gives a realtime different look to video sources rather than hardware?
      Similar to video editing effects software plugins like Boris or After Effects.
      Perhaps it could be reviewed according to the way it affects different sources and then type of program eg sports, gaming and films?
      Otherwise it looks as though its conclusion is just a like / dislike opinion.

      Don't have one but it may catch on and have other types of effects perhaps by other developers?
       
    29. Phill1978

      Phill1978
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Oct 15, 2004
      Messages:
      2,045
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      48
      Ratings:
      +84
      this is the effect exaggerated, look between the white text at the dark blue and the white glow.

      [​IMG]

      to me in isolation it looks like bad chroma / luminance on teletext from an old CRT.


      each to their own. many projectors such as the BenQ range have luminance and fine detail settings which can do similar things there just not matched to an algorithm and are a global setting.

      perhaps as mentioned its best to look at the LOTR example. Its not a fantastic transfer, slightly lacking in detail and shadow at times and a unit like this can bring (with careful use of the %) the detail out, Now it will look post processed but then again so do many re-mastered titles and they often bring more positives VS their old DVD counterparts than negatives which is usually a slightly waxy less graduated colour look.

      My opinion is that it should be used as an enhancement tool for below par bluerays that need that extra punch and id be suprised if a box like this doesnt get integrated into an Onkyo reciever quite soon
       
    30. stucarblne

      stucarblne
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 15, 2012
      Messages:
      3,233
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      106
      Location:
      Fife, United Kingdom.
      Ratings:
      +430
      Imo it works well.

      But it doesn't suit everything all the time is what i have found.

      It "helps" certain content - but sometimes it just makes it look different. And when it does that it should be left off imho, it doesn't need to be left on constantly.

      But when it helps it does it very well, but certainly no substitute for a Lumagen i couldn't imagine lol.
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice