Darbee Visual Presense Darblet Owners Thread

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by jacked, Jul 14, 2012.

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  1. jacked

    jacked
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    After what I`ve just witnessed, I think this deserves its own owners thread...

    I`ve spent a good couple of hours or so trying the Darbee Darblet with my JVC projector - the HD950.

    I`ve read all the comments across the net from people who`ve demoed / bought this device and was very intrigued but also apprehensive. How can it be as good as people are saying ?

    It`s hard to convey in words what the Darbee is doing, everyone has to see it with their own eyes. The analogy that people have used of "lifting a veil off the screen" is probably the best way of explaining what the Darbee does. It just cleans the image up very nicely and makes certain aspects of the picture very detailed and more prominent.

    There are some demo modes you can use; Split-Screen puts a vertical line dead centre through the picture and has one side of the picture untouched and the other side using the Darblet processing.
    Demo Mode On has a vertical line sweeping constantly left-to-right and back again across the screen with each pass having the processing on-and-off. This gives you a very good view of how the image changes with the before and after views.
    I found the best Demo Mode is just to use the Darblet On / Off button on the remote. This method is very impressive on a still shot when you can just flick between on and off.

    I`ve always loved the image quality of the JVC HD950 projector but I`ve never considered it to be a particularly soft image, adding a Darbee Darblet into the chain works wonders - the picture becomes very crisp but without looking artificial and over-processed, which in a way doesn`t make sense !

    I initially had the Darbee set to 45% which seems to be a common setting or starting point. At this level the effect was very subtle indeed and just a slight enhancement.
    I ended-up pushing the setting to 75% and watched quite a few different things. This looks to be a very good setting in my case for the JVC HD950, the Darblet processing was a lot more noticable but without introducing any artifacts, the picture was just better !

    I can`t think of any product over the years that`s literally plug-and-play, pick your setting and forget it, that has the ability to squeeze a little extra picture perfomance for a relatively modest outlay.
    I`m sure this level of improvement would work no matter what display device you have.

    I think the Darbee Darblet is a must-have gadget !!

    The one thing it didn`t do was improve the pink shadow down the left side of the picture, I think I have the dreaded optical block failure issue developing :(

    Dave
     
  2. kbfern

    kbfern
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    Great to hear your positive comments and can't wait for mine to arrive once Allan has his stock, just in time for the Olympics I hope, as for sports this device is supposed to really sing.:thumbsup:
     
  3. Raine

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    Good to hear! Hope, wishful thinking, it'll be in stock next week! :smashin:

    Dilemma now is... do I watch any movies now or save them to watch when the Darbee arrives?! Argh! :confused:
     
  4. jasjw

    jasjw
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    Another excellent review for the Darbee. Cant wait to get mine, hopefully next week.
     
  5. Wull

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    Thanks jacked. I now know what my next upgrade is going to be. :)
     
  6. Buckster

    Buckster
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    interesting write up thanks - looks an interesting product

    Is this purely post-processing enhancement of video - implemented in hardware rather than software ? could you approach the effects on a high end PC with the likes of MadVR etc ?
     
  7. HD Elvis

    HD Elvis
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    Really can't make up my mind with this one. It seems as though it goes against everything I've learned about AV and displays over the years. How far do you push the Darbee before it produces an image which just isn't accurate and or worse it adds artifacts it shouldn't be despite what people are saying at present. Essentially, if you have everything within your kit set up correctly, you should be seeing exactly what is on the disk the way the Director intended. If the Darbee is set to high it maybe that it just isn't doing that.

    I appreciate that at the end of the day most will look at an image and if it looks good to them that is all that matters even if it isn't accurate while there are other hardend Videophiles who simply want the most accurate picture available to them. It is the latter than interests me the most and where the Darbee will actually fits in to this will be a matter for debate I suspect.
     
  8. kbfern

    kbfern
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    There are plenty of purists over on the US forum that are buying the darblet and loving it.
     
  9. HD Elvis

    HD Elvis
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    Can't be long before the tech is included within Displays if it proves successful. Maybe tempted to pull the trigger before I get my ISF calibration done, that way its in the hands of an experienced engineer who know how to set up everything accurately. :smashin:

    However the pics on the Darbee website must be ramped up pretty high as the just don't look right to my eyes and I prefer the 'softer' image on most of the examples. However I have seen other images with around 40% and it does seem very impressive. Jury still out for me...
     
  10. soupdragon

    soupdragon
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    Thanks to RickyJ at Kalibrate Limited for sending me his Darblet for a play this weekend.

    I'll share my thoughts in due course but there is plenty of other peoples thoughts online but not many screenshots. So lets cut to the chase and get the screenshots up.

    All in sets of 3 - Darbee at zero - then 50% - then 100%. When comparing the pics, pic a section of the image, (e.g., a tree branch) and scroll up and down to see how that part of the image is affected.

    1st Film was Descendants - then Avatar - then Awakenings in 3D

    Enjoy :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Buckster

    Buckster
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    soupdragon thanks for those pics - but too small to really make out any difference

    they all look similar to me just look like different levels of sharpness added - but as I said pics are too small to make out
     
  12. soupdragon

    soupdragon
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    The same image as directly above, only zoomed. You can see a bit easier here the effect, the grass and vegetation for example:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. soupdragon

    soupdragon
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    Avatar:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And again, same images as above, only zoomed in:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. kbfern

    kbfern
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    I can defo see better resolution of the bush.:D
     
  15. Wull

    Wull
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    Me too! :)
     
  16. Buckster

    Buckster
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    OK I can see a difference in zoomed shots

    but was your sharpness set quite low for the original non-processed shots ? I'm just trying to work out what difference is between say adding extra "sharpness" either at source, or in your TV vs this in-line device
     
  17. soupdragon

    soupdragon
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. soupdragon

    soupdragon
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    Hi

    the sharpness was set at zero on the projector. I'm projecting a 132" image so its not going to be a sharp as a VT50 or something like that. It's a BenQ 1080p W7000 projector.
     
  19. HD Elvis

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    So does this mean you are going to be an early adopter? Out of curiously what % do you prefer? The highest setting on your photos look very harsh to my eyes. The 50% setting is perhaps more in line with what I'd be looking for.
     
  20. mjbtin

    mjbtin
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    Thanks for the photos Soupdragon Just ordered one:)

    Regards Martin
     
  21. soupdragon

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    Well the good thing is, if you don't like 100%, there are 19 other steps in between to choose from :)
    I like 50 right now but I've only watched 2 movies.
     
  22. KelvinS1965

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    It looks like it's playing around with the gamma too. The first shots of the man in the office, his face is lightened as if the gamma has been lowered. Also the man's face on the beach. Makes me wonder what would happen to a series of greyscale measures with it on then off. If you then compensated by the use of multipoint gamma/greyscale adjustments (such as in a JVC PJ or a Lumagen VP) would some of the effect be lost? Also is this then taking the image away from an accurate calibrated setting? Certainly I wouldn't plan on adding one after a calibration and not expecting it to make any changes to the calibration...I'd want it included in the calibration process. I wonder if it will prove to be a blessing or a headache for the Pro calibrators...

    There is a setting on the Lumagen Radiance called contrast enhance or similar and that does a similar thing to the image that initially looks 'better' but then I realised it was crushing blacks. This doesn't seem to be crushing blacks, so a cleverer algorithm in use, plus of course the sharpening effect too.

    It's academic for me, but I'm still interested on a technical level: I don't think it would make enough difference on my TV to bother with, but interesting none the less.
     
  23. Buckster

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    just watched this video - I'm still confused

    he's talking about taking 2 video feeds from a 3D image and converting into a better 2D ?
    Watch "DARBEE Visual Presence Enhances Depth Cues in Real Time" Video at Engineering Videos - Engineering TV

    Darbee Visual Presence | Computational Image Enhancement Technology | Embed Depth and Realism in 2D Images | A Revolutionary and Patented Image Enhancement Discovery - DarbeeVision Aims to be Dolby of Video

    and describing the unsharp mask of Photoshop as giving artefacts - so is he talking about an unsharp mask with auto mask (been using this for years for photos)

    have to admit unsharp masks work very well - but I'm slightly surprised why TVs have not implemented this already ?

    still looks an interesting product, but not for me I don't think as I already play around with post-processing quite heavily on my HTPC - but then thats just for a single source - and as I've said in other threads before I can't see 1/3 the detail my TV resolves anyway from my sitting position - I still see more detail 8 inches away lol

    if anyone buys one local to me though I'd love to see it in operation with my own eyes - but keep the screenshots coming
     
  24. HD Elvis

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    I'm sure I've heard it doesn't interfere with gamma hence it can be added after an ISF
     
  25. KelvinS1965

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    I was only going by the screenshots above, but we know how screenshots can be deceiving. In those it does appear to be changing the luminance of certain areas of the image hence my comments. I'd certainly want to see some measurements with and without before making a blanket statement that it can be added after an ISF. A bit unfortunate if you've already had one of course...
     
  26. panman40

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    It does appear to be adding some shadow detail by lowering Gamma or upping brightness somehow, I will be keeping my eye on this thread :)
     
  27. wHoMe

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    There's a better explanation below page 3 and onwards "Darbee Visual Presence Technology Details"

    Darbee Visual Presence technology whitepaper
     
  28. golden phoenix

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    what stages are the incremental steps? so, can the darby go up in stages of 1% at a time or is it 5%, 10% etc
     
  29. zAndy1

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    Well I can clearly see the difference between the first pic and the 50% setting pic , looks like it delivers what it promises and the user reviews wouldn't be so universally positive if it wasn't doing something right. Definitely one to keep an eye on
     
  30. Avi

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    It changes luminance between dynamically targeted image elements frame by frame so where it does this it is changing gamma and/or possibly aspects of colour depending on the setting. Some of this appears visible in the images.

    Using full field greyscale patterns to calibrate gamma is unlikely to be affected unless maybe at some extreme DVP level. This is because the patterns lack the type of content that DVP would change. However because DVP is dynamic it will change image attributes when it detects content that meets the target criteria. I'm not sure how this can be calibrated using standard patterns.

    I've read comments that DVP doesn't add anything that's not already in the image but this is also the case with over saturated colour or incorrectly calibrated image elements.
     
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