Question Dali Opticon 8 vs Rubicon 6

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Ive been saving for a while now, hopfully next month I'll have what I need, but Ive been really looking into these. I dont know what people thing but Im wanting either the opticon 8 and the rubicon 6 but Im wondering which would be better. the Opticon 8 has the two bass drivers and a 6 and a half inch Midrange to itself and the ribbon and dome tweeter. and costs £1999 the rubicon 6 doesnt have a 6 and a half inch driver like the opticon 8 does and just has the two bass drivers and the ribbon dome tweeter. the opticon 8 is a full 3 and a half way speaker wheras the rubicon is a 2 and a half way. Im wondering which would be the best to go for despite the price difference being £1,000 more, whats confusing me a bit is the fact that the more expensive speaker is a 2 and a half way speaker and doesnt have the 6 and a half inch midrange like the cheaper speaker does. so any thoughts on this?
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
DALI OPTICON 8 SPECS

Product series
OPTICON
Frequency Range (+/-3 dB) [Hz] 38 - 32,000
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB] 88.0
Nominal Impedance [ohms] 4
Maximum SPL [dB] 112
Recommended Amplifier Power [W] 40 - 300
Crossover Frequency [Hz] 390 / 2,300 / 14,000
Crossover Principle 3 + ½-way
Hybrid tweeter module, Super high freq. driver, Quantity 1 x 17 x 45 mm
Hybrid tweeter module, Super high freq. driver, Diaphragm type Ribbon
Hybrid tweeter module, High frequency driver, Quantity 1 x 28 mm
Hybrid tweeter module, High frequency driver Diaphragm type Soft Textile Dome
Midrange driver, Quantity 1 x 6 1/2"
Midrange driver, Diaphragm type Wood Fibre Cone
Low frequency driver, Quantity 2 x 8"
Low frequency driver, Diaphragm type Wood Fibre Cone
Enclosure type Bass Reflex
Bass Reflex Tuning Frequency [Hz] 29.5
Connection Input Bi-Wiring
Magnetic Shielding No
Recommended Placement Floor
Recommended Distance From Wall [cm] 30 - 150
Dimensions With Base (HxWxD) [mm] 1140 x 241 x 450
Weight [kg] 34.8
Accessories Included Assembly Tools
Manual
Rubber Bumpers
Spikes M8


DALI RUBICON 6 SPECS

Product series
RUBICON
Frequency Range (+/-3 dB) [Hz] 38 - 34.000
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB] 88.5
Nominal Impedance [ohms] 4
Maximum SPL [dB] 110
Recommended Amplifier Power [W] 40 - 200
Crossover Frequency [Hz] 800 / 2,600 / 14,000
Crossover Principle 2½ + ½-way
Hybrid tweeter module, Super high freq. driver, Quantity 1 x 17 x 45 mm
Hybrid tweeter module, Super high freq. driver, Diaphragm type Ribbon
Hybrid tweeter module, High frequency driver, Quantity 1 x 29 mm
Hybrid tweeter module, High frequency driver Diaphragm type Soft Textile Dome
Low frequency driver, Quantity 2 X 6½"
Low frequency driver, Diaphragm type Wood Fibre Cone
Enclosure type Bass Reflex
Bass Reflex Tuning Frequency [Hz] 33.5
Connection Input Bi-Wiring
Magnetic Shielding No
Recommended Placement Floor
Recommended Distance From Wall [cm] 20 - 180
Dimensions With Base (HxWxD) [mm] 990 x 200 x 380
Weight [kg] 20.2
Accessories Included Manual
Micro Fibre Cloth
Rubber Bumpers
Spikes M8
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
That is a very tough call. In general the Rubicon is a better speaker than the Opticon, but, that said, the Opticon is a pretty darn good speaker.

To determine which one might choose, I would need to know the Dimensions of the Room that the system will be in, and what other equipment the system will be used with?

And of course, how the system/speakers will be used?

I have a tendency to prefer larger speakers, though equally I have a room that can handle them. I have something of a open floorplan in a shotgun configurations. While my listening area is only roughly 16ft x 16ft, the entire space (Lounge, Kitchen, Entryway) is 16ft x 36ft. The long 36ft length gives my speakers a lot of space to open up into. I say this simply to illustrate how the room can make a difference.

Dali Rubicon 6 (2x6.5") - ~£2,999/pair -


DALI RUBICON 6 - Great floorstanding loudspeaker

Dali Opticon 8 (2x8",1x6.5") - ~£1,999/pr -

DALI OPTICON 8 - A towering floorstanding speaker

That's a considerable difference in price, the Rubicon 6 are definitely a better speaker, but they are also £1000/pr more money.

The Opticon 6 (2x6.5") , which is closest to the Rubicon 6, is about £1200/pr. Again, a considerable £1800/pr price difference.

And as long as we are filling out the spectrum, the Rubicon 8 are about £4000/pr. (3x6.5")

I think it gets down to whether you have the extra £1000 for the Rubicon, and whether the larger Opticon speaker can be functionally used in your space.

Steve/bluewizard
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Hi thanks for replying. well my room is only 13 foot by a little over 10 foot. my current speaker are also floorstanders. they are rogers LS55 which and they sound excellent but Im after something better and I do love the warm sound they give off. the specs of them are.
Description:Frequency Response: 48Hz - 20Hz
Drivers: 2 x 165mm polypropylene cone woofers | 1 x 19mm textile dome tweeter
Crossover: 3kHz
Sensitivity: 90dB
Nominal Impedance: 6 ohms

The Amp I would be using is an intergrated Class AB push-pull tube amp. 55 watts in ultralinear and 28 watts triode. my cd player is also a tube but has both solid state and vacuume and both amp and cd player are matching by the brand Ekco.

Its very difficult with the price difference concidering one has a nice 6 and a half inch midrange. I couldnt afford the rubicon 8 at 4,000.
 
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JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I also decided to choose these speakers becuase they have matching home cinema speakers for the future.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I dont like over driven base sound but soft low base like what my rogers give me, but Id like to be able to feal it more, the mids are great and i do love warm sound, i also play a lot of vinyl as well and I have a clearaudio concept turntable with a ortofon quintet blue Moving coil cartridge for playing them on. I dont really have an extra £1000 to spend but if I was going to get better sound stage superb 3d sound, nice warm mids and great low bass then id save that extra to get them for sure and Im quite a good saver, it wouldnt take much longer.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
In my opinion, and only my opinion, a room 13ft x 10ft is a bit small for 2x8" bass drivers. And room size relative to speaker size is just that, an opinion, not a hard and fast rule.

While the Rubicon 6 would be fantastic speakers, they are a bit steep at £3000/pr. If you can afford that - fine. But at least consider the Opticon 6 at about £1200/pr.

Dali Opticon 6 Speakers (Pair)

But I would not call the DALI laid-back or mellow. From my very limited exposure, they seem to have a good strong Mid/High presence, though not overbearing or excessive. That would great for Movies, but less so for music. Again, just one man's opinion. I'm sure the Dali are also great for music.

If you want a more mellow smooth speakers, and you've got some cash to spend, consider Wharfedale REVA. Though even the REVA are well under your budget -

Wharfedale Reva-4 Speakers (Pair)

In roughly the £2000/pr range, if you want speaker that have good Mid/High presence that is not overbearing, yet have very clear controlled bass, then consider the highly rated FOCAL speakers -

Focal Aria 936 Speakers (Pair)

Focal Aria 926 Speakers (Pair)

You might also what to consider QUAD speakers. I would expect them to have a sound closer to what I interpret you are looking for -

Quad Z-3 Speakers (Pair)

Quad S5 Speakers (Pair)

You might also want to consider the Bowers-Wilkins (B&W) CM series -

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-15688-bw-cm9-s2-floorstanding-speakers-pair.aspx

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-15687-bw-cm10-s2-floorstanding-speakers-pair.aspx

The outboard tweeter on the CM-10-S2 does amazing things to the sound stage, but it is a pretty expensive speaker. However, I have auditioned the CM-9-S2 and they sound pretty good.

If you are set o DALI, then I think in that relatively small room, the choices are the Opticon 6 or the Rubicon 6. I can't say with certainty, but the Opticon 8 seem a bit big for a 13ft x 10ft room.

In the end it is up to you to decide whether the Opticon 8 are too big for your room. They will certainly work, the question is how well will they work. But most certainly, the Dali Opticon 6 and the Rubicon 6 would work.

All of the other speaker I've recommended all have 6.5' (165mm) bass drivers with the exception of the Quad Z3, which have 175mm (6.9" or 7").

If you are going for pure finesse, detail, and subtelity, and you have £3000/pr to spend, few could fault the Rubicon 6. But that is a pretty steep price. Similar but at a lower price, the Focal Aria.

If you would like to reduce the budget, the Opticon 6, the REVA 4, and the Quad S5 are all very good speakers in roughly the £1200 to £1500 range.

And it is certainly worth auditioning the B&W CM9 at £2000/pr. Well balanced and detailed speaker.

Unfortunately, I have ZERO knowledge, experience, and feedback on the Roger LS55, so I can't comment on them, and I can't imagine speakers that might have a similar sound. I did find this video though, for what little it might be worth.



With Tube/Valve Amp, I would be inclined to look at more efficient speakers. Try to get a Sensitivity as close to 90db or more as possible. While speakers in the mid-80's will work, I think you will be more pleased with higher efficiency speakers. Even the difference between 87db and 90db is like doubling the power.

Lastly do you have any idea what the Rogers LS55 cost new? That might help lend some perspective.

Just a few thoughts.


Steve/bluewizard
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Im not sure how much they was new but they are very warm sounding and are bbc monitors, they are suppost to be very similar to spendor speakers which is why Id thought about the newer spendor 6r speakers. I do like a warm sound thats fitting to tube and vinyl and I dont like a too metallic sound or digital sound. I had looked at harbeths 3 way and the spendor 6r but they are a little too expensive but Im not sure. what about the dali rubicon 5 as well? my rogers sound very well in this room and they are a 2 and a half way but id like better low end bass and thats the only thing about them. I am concidering having my fronts also as 5.1 and thats why Im concidering th dali becuase they also have matching backs and sides for later on.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I did read that my rogers do sound like they are well over £1000 but they are vintage now, they was made in 1999 and was the very last speakers they made before the company ended
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I must admit those quads look lovey especially the quad z-3
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Ive found a shop that has the Focal Aria 926 in so I can hear them and the 948 they didnt have the 936 in to demo. from what ive read and seen on youtube they look like they might be the ones im looking for. im thinking like you said having an 8 inch bass driver might be a bit much for my room which the 948 has but i can listen to them anyway and get an idea.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
The Focal are very clear speakers. I haven't had a chance to hear the Focal 900 Series, but did hear the entire Focal 800 series and was very impressed. Stunningly clear speakers, which good Mid/High presence, but not overbearing. The bass is modestly deep, but rendered to perfection.

You can listen to the Focal 948, but the Focal 936 are noticeably less expensive, and 3x6.5" are roughly the same as 2x8". So, the 926 or the 936 are probably the best choices, depending on how the audition goes.

Personally, I was most impressed with the Focal 836 when I auditioned them. The bass was sufficiently deep and the speakers were amazingly clear. Also,

Here is a link to the speakers -

Focal Aria 926 Speakers (Pair)

Focal Aria 936 Speakers (Pair)

Focal Aria 948 Speakers (Pair)

I would expect the 936 and the 948 to sound very similar.

948 = [email protected], [email protected]

936 = [email protected], [email protected]

926 = [email protected] , [email protected]


Based on one source I found (used equipment), the Rogers LS55 has the following bass response -

Rogers LS55 = 48Hz - 20Hz


The HiFi Database confirms this -

Rogers LS55 - Hi-Fi Database - Floorstanding Speakers

Note the Rogers are Sensitivity rated at 90db, relatively high efficiency.

And indeed the QUAD Z-series are impressive speakers, but a bit on the steep side. The bass is not especially deep, but there is so much more to a speaker than deep bass. I think we sometimes get a bit too obsessed with bass depth.

Quad Z-3 Speakers (Pair)

Quad Z-4 Speakers (Pair)

Steve/bluewizard
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
on thing i did notice with the focals is they are not bi-wirable whereas the quads are so if i wanted to have them as both hifi and home cinema at a later date with the focals would be a bit more difficult
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
on thing i did notice with the focals is they are not bi-wirable whereas the quads are so if i wanted to have them as both hifi and home cinema at a later date with the focals would be a bit more difficult

Bi-Wireable is one of those features that everyone wants but no one uses, and the few that do use that aspect likely gain nothing from it. Don't let that be the deciding factor in choosing speakers.

In my opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
 

rogercr

Active Member
Loudspeakers are like ladies fashions – Different manufacturers, their models and aspects about them come and go like whether or not quality speakers should be bi wired. At one time you didn't know your stuff if you were not bothered bi wiring – it's all to do with snobbishness and one one-upmanship. Dali is in fashion at the moment and most hi fi shops have them on display for auditioning. Check out their cheaper models and other manufacturers. Don't be swayed too much by what you are told in the shop or for that matter what you read – ignore the technicalities and the price (expensive is not a guide to the best) - listening to the speaker is the best way to decide and you will probably save some money.
 

rogercr

Active Member
I should have also mentioned - go to more than one dealer if you can find them - no less than three.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I have emailed another place to audition but got no reply yet.
Currently on my list:
focal 926, 936, 948
quad z-3, z-4
harbeth HL5plus
Spendor A6R
Dali Opticon 8
Dali Rubicon 6

when Im ready to go to the place who have focals Im going to ask if they have dalis to demo too. I have heard harbeths before but they was only the small 2 ways and the room was large so it was difficult to tell.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
this is my amp. /EKCO EV55SE Integrated Vacuum Tube Amplifier

specs:

  • >90dB Signal / Noise Ratio

  • 300mV Input Sensitivity

  • Input Impedance 250 kOhms

  • 4 x KT88, 1 x 12AX7, 4 x 12AU7 Valves

  • 236mm x 356mm x 441mm

  • 28kg / 61.73lbs Net Weight

  • 55W / 8 Ohms (Ultralinear Mode)

  • 28W / 8 Ohms (Triode Mode)
  • 5 x RCA inputs

  • 4 x Speaker Terminal Outputs

  • Ground Connection

  • Speaker A/B Select

  • Ultralinear / Triode Mode Select

  • Adjustable Negative Feedback

  • 20Hz – 30kHz Frequency Response (±1dB)

  • <1% at 1kHz Total Harmonic Distortion
EH_EV55SE_Red+wood+%284%29.jpg
 

Robbowal

Distinguished Member
i have a set of opticon 6 in a room 3m x6m and they can dominate it with bass (they are a little close to the wall but that cant be helped), the opti 8 will be overkill for the size room you have. i would love to try the rubicon 6 but sadly they are out of my budget for now
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
i have a set of opticon 6 in a room 3m x6m and they can dominate it with bass (they are a little close to the wall but that cant be helped), the opti 8 will be overkill for the size room you have. i would love to try the rubicon 6 but sadly they are out of my budget for now
Thats really good to know and very helpful. looking at the size of the base drivers in the opticon 8's I did think they might be but i thought i might get away with it ha
 

rogercr

Active Member
Hi John
I may not have read all the posts here but in noticing your unusual amplifier I would be concerned whether there is sufficient power to drive the various speakers you have in mind. On paper they might appear ok but they might not perform to their optimum. Perhaps you could take your amplifier to a dealer to check if you are happy that the speakers are good with it?
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
They drive my rogers with no problem. do you know much about valve amps and have only had transistor amps in the past and what way do you think its unusual?
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
focal 926 seem to match my amp and price pretty much match aswell, excep my amp is 90dB and the speakers are a bit higher at 91.5dB
 

rogercr

Active Member
Hi John
I was using valve amplifiers over a 15 year period around 50 years ago - first mono then stereo so they are not new to me. I look upon them as a 'novelty' item today but that's not to say they don't work very well. But going back to your speaker choice. The most you can afford is not always the way to go. With your room size I would seriously consider Dali Zensor 5 - a fantastic sounding speaker in the right surroundings and you will save a lot of money.
 

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