Dali Opticon 6 mk2 vs Rubicon 6 or 6 black edition

password1

Distinguished Member
I have the opticon 6 mk2 whicch have just been run in. I am very happy with them (I was happy with most of my previous speakers too). my home demo period ends in 10 days time.

Howver, I'm currently suffering from upgradititis and looking at upgrading again.

Has anyone upgraded to rubicon 6?

is the black edition worth the extra money? from what i can tell, the main technical difference is 2 capacitors have been changed to mundorf ones and the internal wiring.replaced with silver van den hul.

Im also looking at a upgrading my amp (currently bi amp with 2 arcam alpha 9r amps) and have a used a32 or a38 or a39 with a matching power amp in mind) or a new Rega (either elex, elicit or aethos)

This is my current set up:
IMG_20210620_164325.jpg

IMG_20210620_140409.jpg
Thanks
 
Last edited:

Orobas

Well-known Member
I have the opticon 6 mk2 whicch have just been run in. I am very happy with them (I was happy with most of my previous speakers too). my home demo period ends in 10 days time.

Howver, I'm currently suffering from upgradititis and looking at upgrading again.

Has anyone upgraded to rubicon 6?

is the black edition worth the extra money? from what i can tell, the main technical difference is 2 capacitors have been changed to mundorf ones and the internal wiring.replaced with silver van den hul.

Im also looking at a upgrading my amp (currently bi amp with 2 arcam alpha 9r amps) and have a used a32 or a38 or a39 with a matching power amp in mind) or a new Rega (either elex, elicit or aethos)

This is my current set up:

View attachment 1530488

ThanksView attachment 1530490
Mundorf and Hovland caps are a brilliant upgrade and are far superior to standard crossover caps.. Mundorf are now the default upgrade caps since Hovland called it quits and shut down. The electrical changes to the black will be just a slightly faster "brighter" sound for the treble i think at the end of the day due to the electrical properties of silver over copper.. but at that price point.. its still negligible .. the VDH are "silver coated MC OFC"

The rubi's are a better speaker for sure and sonically very noticeably different from the opticons and that is what you are looking at .. not what is going on with the internals.. have a listen.. does the price warrant the improvement to your ears.

IS the black edition worth the additional £200 over the standard Rubicon 6...
see here for the cost of the caps.. Mundorf M-Cap Supreme Capacitors
The caps retail price... kinda justify it.. but... its a listen to be sure..
 

Timmy C

Distinguished Member
If you are possibly thinking about the Rubicons and the Rega Aethos then you've gotta be talking upwards of 6k. I think if I was potentially spending that amount on amp and speakers, even if in stages, then I would want to wait until a time I felt comfortable going out for multiple demos before narrowing down a list for home demo.

Have you considered just taking a refund on the Opticons and living with what you have for now or is the upgrade bug biting too hard?
 

password1

Distinguished Member
I wont be spending anywhere near 6k.

ill be selling some of my existing hifi. ill be aiming at least a 1-1.5k discount over rrp.

ive already seen a elicit r for £1k and my local dealer has an ex display aethos for at least £700 off rrp.

i would like an fmj with a matching power amp in immaculate condition in black but unfortunately second hand prices are still high which lead me to consider the elex r for £949. then i found an elicit r for £50 extra...i checked the price of an elicit r then found an aethos for about £650 extra.. it's getting expensive..

as for rubicons ill be looking at any deals sich as open box/ex display but with full warranty.
 
Last edited:

Orobas

Well-known Member
I wont be spending anywhere near 6k.

ill be selling some of my existing hifi. ill be aiming at least a 1-1.5k discount over rrp.

ive already seen a elicit r for £1k and my local dealer has an ex display aethos for at least £700 off rrp.

i would like an fmj with a matching power amp in immaculate condition in black but unfortunately second hand prices are still high which lead me to consider the elex r for £949. then i found an elicit r for £50 extra...i checked the price of an elicit r then found an aethos for about £650 extra.. it's getting expensive..

as for rubicons ill be looking at any deals sich as open box/ex display but with full warranty.
Do you physically...... have the room for the Rubicon's to breathe without being boxed in and boomy is something i forgot to mention!!!

The Rubicon is a 75L Box against the Opticon's 64.5L .. The Rubicon is 16% bigger by volume
 

password1

Distinguished Member
I had the opticons about 7 inches. ive moved them out about 3 inches further.

ill just move them out if i need to. im sure rhey wont need to be in the middle of the room to sound their best16242066286744837844826792625116.jpg like the concept 40s i had.

im actually impressed with how easy the Dali opticons are to place. no toe in and no boom in the same position as my previous speakers..whether it's something to do the new dual flare ports i dont know.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
I had the opticons about 7 inches. ive moved them out about 3 inches further.

ill just move them out if i need to. im sure rhey wont need to be in the middle of the room to sound their bestView attachment 1530628 like the concept 40s i had.
they run from 8inch (on par with the opticon) to a full 36 inches from a wall.. the spacing for the rubicon 6... it was more a case of have you allowed for that nearly 20% bigger volume's worth of air movement with the room's size :)
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The Dali Opticon 6 are 4 ohm, that will rule out the Rega Aethos. Rega do not quote figures for 4 ohm at all and even warn about over driving 6 ohm speakers with the Aethos. The Elicit-R will give you 162 watts into 4 ohms. There is quite a difference between the Elex-R and the Elicit-R, including HT by-pass on the Elicit.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Im surprised Rega don't quote figures for 4 ohms . Even my cheap old Cambridge Audio azur 540 is capable of running the opticons all day and night for 18 hours non stop without shutting down or getting hot.

So the elicit r is a safer bet for 4 ohm speakers? im worried in case the warranty is void if i.use it with 4 ohm opticons or rubicons.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Mundorf and Hovland caps are a brilliant upgrade and are far superior to standard crossover caps.. Mundorf are now the default upgrade caps since Hovland called it quits and shut down. The electrical changes to the black will be just a slightly faster "brighter" sound for the treble i think at the end of the day due to the electrical properties of silver over copper.. but at that price point.. its still negligible .. the VDH are "silver coated MC OFC"

The rubi's are a better speaker for sure and sonically very noticeably different from the opticons and that is what you are looking at .. not what is going on with the internals.. have a listen.. does the price warrant the improvement to your ears.

IS the black edition worth the additional £200 over the standard Rubicon 6...
see here for the cost of the caps.. Mundorf M-Cap Supreme Capacitors
The caps retail price... kinda justify it.. but... its a listen to be sure..
Quite a big difference in price from £14 to £75. Hopefully the caps used are the £40+ ones...


As for the wiring, Ive no idea which van den hul or how much cable is used.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Of the Regas.... yes the Elicit is the safer bet. The Atheos is to be avoided for those dalis
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Dali are very good speakers, but whether you would gain anything by getting new speakers, epically when they need room to sing properly.

Still it is difficult to tell. The reason Dali sound good when placed against the walls, is because of the geometry of cabinet and the light wood fiber drivers.

The Denon 1600AE is a perfect match for those Dali speakers you have in mind.

Regarding the Athoes I would just call Rega and ask them.

According to the reviews it should drive many speakers.

Whether one should trust the reviews...
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Im surprised Rega don't quote figures for 4 ohms . Even my cheap old Cambridge Audio azur 540 is capable of running the opticons all day and night for 18 hours non stop without shutting down or getting hot.

So the elicit r is a safer bet for 4 ohm speakers? im worried in case the warranty is void if i.use it with 4 ohm opticons or rubicons.
Rega quote 4 ohms in the owners manual, so you'd be covered by Rega's lifetime warranty against component or workmanship failures. My Elicit doesn't break a sweat with my 8 ohm KEFS.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Direct from the Aethos manual re power issues

Power outputs at rated 230/115 V supply voltage:
125 W RMSboth channels driven into the rated load of 8 Ω
156 W RMSboth channels driven into 6 Ω

Note: Continued high level use into 6 Ω may cause the case to exceed 40 °C above the ambient temperature and activate the thermal shutdown.

re the speaker terminals
Speaker terminals - These are intended for use with 4-16 Ω speakers.
Sustained use into speakers of less than 8 Ω could make the unit run warmer than normal

Hopefully that explains why the Aethos is not recommended ..

Whereas from the Elicit-R manual

Power output
105 Watts per channel into 8Ω
127 Watts per channel into 6Ω
162 Watts per channel into 4Ω
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
That rules out the Aethos then.

I'll look at the other 2 Regas and Arcam Fmj.
They are awesome amp's regas, make no mistake.. but .. they are not volume powerhouses.. They have a good current supply which is why they usually can partner with more difficult loads.. but.. they are very much model dependant.

Just one note rega line up i have found from looking over all the manuals this morning..

The Brio and Elicit-R are 4ohm tolerant models that can handle 4ohm loads.. BUT all of the rega line up from the IO to the Aethos all specify the same warning about driving high volume into difficult loads

From the Brio Manual
The Brio is capable of driving all normal hi-fi loudspeakers. Rega recommends using loudspeakers with a nominal impedance of 8Ω. It is possible to run speakers as low as 4Ω however such units may cause the case to exceed 40° C above the ambient temperature.

Power outputs at 230/115V supply voltage:
50Watts RMS both channels driven into the rated load of 8Ω
58Watts RMS one channel driven into the rated load of 8Ω
73Watts RMS both channels driven into the rated load of 4Ω
93Watts RMS one channel driven into the rated load of 4Ω

Continued high level use into 4Ω may cause the case to exceed 40° C above the ambient temperature.

The Brio manual seems to be the best and most informative of all the rega models.. Rega in general want you to use 8ohm speakers.. but they supply a couple of amps that can handle 4 ohm with a warning on volume and power usage...

The only powerhouse Rega does is the Osiris .. That will drive 4ohm all day 24/7/365.. that and the now discontinued Exon 3 mono poweramps.. but they can be found 2nd hand readily on well known auction sites
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Thanks ill keep the exon 3 monos in mind if cheap enough.

ideally id like an amp with long term, a minimum 10-20 years support so Rega are the only amps im looking at new or a used arcam fmj as a safer bet.

i dont mind spending extra on a rega for the lifetime warranty. if going second hand i dont want to pay more than about £250-300 for an amp with no warranty and unknown history.

everything else, denon, marantz, musical fidelity and quad, lyndorf, parasound, Cyrus, rotel, are either too expensive used or unknown match. and a measly 2 year warranty as standard when new. getting spare parts is a challenge for some amps.

I've found a pair of rubicon 6 ex demo at nin tronics and hifix has a pair of rubicons but they're the 5.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Another forum says the Atheos has no problems driving 4 ohm speakers, and below 4 ohm.

I know Rega is very popular, but there are plenty of other amps to consider.

Like the Denon I mentioned.

Yamaha AS2200, AS1200 also.

And the old Yamaha series like the AS1100, I believe it is called.

Any way watts comes down to how large the living room.

And the speakers are never 4 ohm all time.

It varies depending on frequency.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Thanks ill keep the exon 3 monos in mind if cheap enough.

ideally id like an amp with long term, a minimum 10-20 years support so Rega are the only amps im looking at new or a used arcam fmj as a safer bet.

i dont mind spending extra on a rega for the lifetime warranty. if going second hand i dont want to pay more than about £250-300 for an amp with no warranty and unknown history.

everything else, denon, marantz, musical fidelity and quad, lyndorf, parasound, Cyrus, rotel, are either too expensive used or unknown match. and a measly 2 year warranty as standard when new. getting spare parts is a challenge for some amps.

I've found a pair of rubicon 6 ex demo at nin tronics and hifix has a pair of rubicons but they're the 5.
If..... the sound matches your taste... then the Roksan K3 is well worth a consideration and is available for demo just about everywhere... that will power those dalis without grunting..
The K3 will give you 140w/8ohm and 220 into 4ohm.

Looks.. yeah not the best, remote.. cheap nasty plastic thing... bluetooth input.. dont even bother with..

But.. it has the power, and a selectable input / av bypass switch and 5year warranty from new

The Rok's are a good sensible price.. but.. they have a very quirky sound to them that has to be heard before buying.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
I did look at Yamahas but they're big and expensive and rare used . Im not so keen on spending a lot of money on used.

Roksan is unknown to me..my only experience is a roksan candy with mission 782..

5 years warranty as standard is ok but not quite as good as lifetime warranty...

I understand the current Regas have lifetime warranty but do old rega models have transferable lifetime warranty?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I understand the current Regas have lifetime warranty but do old rega models have transferable lifetime warranty?
The Elicit-R certainly does as there is a page in the back of the manual for new owners just as you would find in a car's manual. There is no warnings in the manual that is associated to driving 4 ohm speakers. The only mention of 4 ohm is in the specifications that show 162 watts into 4 ohms.

If you've got an AudioT close to you then you could arrange a home audition, couple of hours use will show up any problems with 4 ohm loads.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I did look at Yamahas but they're big and expensive and rare used . Im not so keen on spending a lot of money on used.

Roksan is unknown to me..my only experience is a roksan candy with mission 782..

5 years warranty as standard is ok but not quite as good as lifetime warranty...

I understand the current Regas have lifetime warranty but do old rega models have transferable lifetime warranty?
I see. You haven’t considered Electrokompaniet and Rotel.

How about the Hegel H90 used?
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
I did look at Yamahas but they're big and expensive and rare used . Im not so keen on spending a lot of money on used.

Roksan is unknown to me..my only experience is a roksan candy with mission 782..

5 years warranty as standard is ok but not quite as good as lifetime warranty...

I understand the current Regas have lifetime warranty but do old rega models have transferable lifetime warranty?
if you have a RicherSounds near you.. they should have both the dali and the Kandy in stock.. which is why i mentioned it.. simple enough to pop down and have a listen.

Rega warranty... as far as i can see looking online is non transferable.. you need the original receipts etc etc etc .....

Re @gibbsy note on the Elicit-R . I did say both the Brio and Elicit-R were 4 ohm tolerant. Apologies if my note was a bit confusing. the warning on the Elicit-R manual says "The thermal cutout should only occur with continuous high level driving of a difficult load"
 

password1

Distinguished Member
I see. You haven’t considered Electrokompaniet and Rotel.

How about the Hegel H90 used?

Never heard of Electrokompaniet.

Rotel, the slim ones are underpowered, limited warranty and i dont think are an upgrade.. the high end ones are big and expensive.

Hegel too expensive.. i only need 1 input. the only source is a cd player.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Rega Approved Dealers

EXPERIENCE REGA​

CONTACT YOUR NEAREST REGA DEALER OR GLOBAL DISTRIBUTOR
UK DEALERSGLOBAL DISTRIBUTORS

LIFETIME WARRANTY​

All Rega products carry a lifetime warranty against manufacture defects.
Every product we make is designed and assembled in the UK to the highest possible standard. This warranty covers genuine confirmed manufacture defects. This warranty does not cover wear and tear. Any unauthorised modifications or failure to follow the Rega recommended guidelines may invalidate the warranty.
Please see your user manual for detailed warranty information for your particular product. Your statutory rights are not affected.

***********

This is the only information about any kind of warranty in the Elicit's manual. A Rega dealer should be able to sort out any confusion with warranty transfer.

OWNERS LOG

(1) Owner……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Date…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...
Where purchased………………………………………………………………………………………………

(2) Owner……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Date…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...
Where purchased………………………………………………………………………………………………

(3) Owner……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Date…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...
Where purchased……………………………………………………………………………………………...

I bought my Elicit in February 2018 so well into the fourth year of ownership. Been faultless and gets used every day either in it's music stereo role or HT by-pass roll. Price has only gone up by £50 in that time but trying to get any kind of a deal was [then] almost impossible. AudioT did throw in Chord Clearway interconnects and shop terminated speaker cable as a sweetner as I was a good customer.
 

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