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Daft sub upgrade question

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by BrianC, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. BrianC

    BrianC
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    Appologies in advance - I should know the answer to this basic question but I don't :blush:

    After flogging a load of stuff on ebay I have a couple of grand burning a hole in my pocket that is just ripe for spending on a upgrade - but I am not sure if I would get any benefit from what I am planning?

    I am princably looking for more oopmh from the sub, I realise that I can get this by turning the wick up on my SVS but its already running hot at +10db even though this is only 1/3 rd on the volume dial. I can not get away with more than +10db before the bass is localised to my ears.

    Would a better sub give me more oopmh or am I limited by the volume levels I listen to: -5db on my yammy?
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    How big is your room as the SVS that you have should be capable of either reference or near reference levels which to most people is frighteningly loud.

    Are you sure that you have set it up correctly as a small investment in an SPL meter and a test disc does pay dividends. If it is set up correctly then the answer must lie in a problem with your room as if it is set at 10Db over the rest of the speakers and that isn't pumping out enough bass for you the answer will normally lie in the room or your ears.
     
  3. BrianC

    BrianC
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    Thanks for taking the time to reply Ian, I knew I forgot to say something important, the size of the room :)

    Its 16 foot 6 by 14 foot 2, so fairly small, but house is detached & double glazed so neighbours aren't an issue for me.

    The sub & speakers have been calibrated with DVE & the radio shack meter, I've done further calibration on the sub using that spreadsheet and the sine wave frequences - this resulted in a big peak at 45 Hz that made the sub a little boomy, it sounds much better now I have tweaked it with a BFD, I have a virtually flat response between 20hz and 80hz (the cross over point).

    I can get the sort of impact I'm looking for from my current sub if I turn it up to about 1/2th way on the sub's amp, but then the bass is localised :(

    I guess it boils down to will a bigger & better sub give me more impact, or will it be limited by the volume levels I can reach in my room without making my ears bleed?

    So, upgrade the sub or upgrade the house? :D
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I don't think that a more expensive sub is the answer to your problem as that will give you cleaner bass but not necessarily more of it as reference level is reference level no matter what sub you are using.

    One solution may be to use two subs which assuming that you can integrate them well (not always easy) will cut down on the localisation of the bass.
     
  5. Nimby

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    BrianC

    Where in the room is your sub relative to your seating and main speakers ?

    Nimby
     
  6. BrianC

    BrianC
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    The best way to think of it is; an equilateral triangle with the screen (L, R, and C speakers around the screen), sub and listening position as the three points on the triangle, all three sides being 2.4 meters. The sub is fully loaded in the corner of the room.

    Obviously this is less than ideal in terms of viewing/listening angle but the fireplace currently sits in the ideal (straight ahead) location for the TV & speakers. I have just gotten WAF for removing the fire and locating the TV into the fireplace, so the distance between the screen and sub will half, then I surpose I could put another sub where the TV was?

    EDIT: Dang nabbit, it isn't an equilateral triangle, as the sub is 4 meters away from the screen, but the other two sides are 2.4 meters.
     
  7. Stellavision

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    When I had my 25-31 PCi one of the things that wasn't right was also localisation. I always felt that it wasn't intergrated as much as I liked, but impact was certainly never a problem, and that was with no hot calibrations in a room 13'X14'.
    Your description of speaker placement around the room sounds like your mains are not in the same location as your sub, correct me if your wrong. If possible moving the sub closer to your front speakers should improve intergration a little. Even better would be a corner next to or behind a front speaker, as the SVS cylinders are reported to fill the room with bass a lot easier when it is corner loaded.
    Also try adjusting the phase if you have'nt already.
     
  8. BrianC

    BrianC
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    I hadn't considered moving the sub, it does sound a good idea, but I am going to be moving the TV shortly so I wouldn't be able to get the sub close enough after that :(

    I've tried adjusting the phase, it has no effect on my setup.

    Its annoying as I'm nowhere near the limits of the sub, even when I'm running hot enough to ruin the level intergration that I can achieve with it.
     
  9. Nimby

    Nimby
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    Is there any way you can listen and watch across the room at 90 degrees to your present set-up? This might free up your speaker/sub arrangements.

    I always prefer to have the listening triangle across the shortest dimension.
    No matter what the room's dimensions. It usually allows a wider spacing of the speakers.

    My present arrangement has my 16-46 between the right speaker and the TV (about 8 feet from the nearest corner) I found it gave a lower sub output but much tighter sound. Which I prefer for music. As I can still reach nearly 110dB uncorrected @ around 20-30Hz (C-slow) I'm not too concerned about impact on films. :devil:

    The sub cannot be localised at all on any material. In fact I can hear deep bass well outside the speakers on DVD films and Digital Satellite TV sometimes. This is with 40Hz (stereo only) floorstanders.

    You could try downloading "Room Arranger" if you're not into pencil and graph paper and rough scale drawings. To see if alternative speaker/sub arrangements are possible.

    On a diagonal across the opposite corners of the room perhaps? With a speaker on each adjacent wall? Sub in the middle right back in the corner with TV in front of the sub? You never know until you try. :)

    Nimby
     
  10. BrianC

    BrianC
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    I've also been speaking to Tom @ SVS about this - after Ian suggested two subs I wanted to find out the optimon combination of SVS subs for my room. As you would expect of a company with SVSs reputation Tom is trying to work towards solving my problem without me spending any cash.

    After moving the sub closer I'm now convinced that the localisation problem is related, thanks to everyone who suggested this as a possible cause. Unfortuantley the sub can't come any closer without the wife chopping off important bits of mine - sticking the sub in the corner is fine, moving it next to the TV isn't as this means relocating my AV stand, speakers and whatnot.

    There is light at the end of the tunnel, I am going to remove the fireplace and put the TV in its place, this will halve the gap between the sub and the main speakers, hopefully then I'll be able to turn up the wick on the sub. It'll also free up some room so I would be able to get another sub in the other corner.

    I just wanted to be clear that the problem is related to my room layout/setup not the sub (don't want to put anybody off a SVS), at the levels I am running it at the sub is still loud enough to rattle the doors in their frames. :evil:

    Thanks for everyones help so far!
     

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