1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Notice: AVForums will be offline at 10pm for no longer than 30 minutes for scheduled maintenance. Apologies for any inconvenience this causes.
    Dismiss Notice

Cyberhome 402 NTSC playback?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by R N M, Aug 6, 2003.

  1. R N M

    R N M
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Can anybody let me know what options you get for playing back NTSC DVDs on the 402 please?

    Is it one setting or multiple? And does it have an automatic option?

    I'm looking for:
    -to PAL conversion
    -NTSC
    -PAL 60/Quasi PAL
    -Automatic switching

    DOes it do any/all of these?

    Thanks.
     
  2. rct

    rct
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    986
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    South Wales, UK
    Ratings:
    +3
    It will do native NTSC for certain, I think possibly true PAL conversion (although poorly) and it might have an auto mode. Check out http://forum.cyberhome-help.de/ for more help and info and consider the superior 505 which certainly has automatic switching and does PAL60 at Second Spin
    ;)
     
  3. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,426
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Yeovil
    Ratings:
    +218
    I think the 505 from what I've read doesn't do NTSC to PAL 50hz. However the other cyberhome models I believe either play back region 1s in native ntsc or pal 50hz without a pal 60hz mode.

    However if you use a scart rgb cable you don't need pal 60hz anyway so the 402 is your best option for versatility.
     
  4. R N M

    R N M
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    the PAL 50hz was the least important on thie list.

    Surely if you're using an RGB cable, with NTSC output, you still get the limited NTSC colour palette, wheras the PAL 60 will give the full colours?
     
  5. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,426
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Yeovil
    Ratings:
    +218
    PAL 60 isn't an enhancement its a basic conversion to get an older 60hz frame rate compatible television (but not ntsc colour compatible) set to give full colour with ntsc material via composite or s-video. The optimum quality output is PAL for PAL material and NTSC for NTSC material. What makes you think PAL 60 is some form of enhancement? You can not create extra colour information not on the original dvd by converting it to PAL 60. RGB will give you by far the best most vivid colours and bypasses all PAL/NTSC chroma processing. The actual process of creating a chroma colour signal in the dvd player whether PAL or NTSC reduces colour information and bandwidth. Even s-video merges all three RGB colours together losing some colour information and then when the television splits it back into rgb even more colour information and bandwidth is lost. Thats why I say the Cyberhome 402 is the best option as you should be able to get a good picture out of it whatever the television set. However the Cyberhome 505 will not work with televisions that aren't 60hz frame rate compatible.
     
  6. R N M

    R N M
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    You're wrong. I happen to work in the TV/Video industry, so I do know what I'm talking about. And no, it's not an enhancement. DVD colour is recorded in a system called YUV, which can be decoded as either PAL or NTSC. The full colour information is already there at the encoding point, it's not 'created' by the use of PAL 60!
    In PAL 60, you simply get a full available range, in NTSC you get the limited pallette of NTSC. So, if it's in NTSC mode, you get the limited NTSC range of RGB signal that's compatible with NTSC televisions. If you output in PAL 60, you get the full range of RGB for PAL TVs. That's why they included PAL 60 in the first place!
     
  7. MarkB4506

    MarkB4506
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    136
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Ratings:
    +4
    RNM you are misinformed. Bonzo is correct in his assertion that PAL60 allows a TV compatible with this framerate to produce colour via the moving of the colourburst centre frequency to 4.43MHz within the luminance passband, thus allowing the PAL decoder to lock.
    It has nothing to do with 'colour palettes'. It simply avoids the judder that poor quality framerate conversion produces and in that is preferable, but its frequency response is identical to NTSC.

    There is no limitation to the NTSC colourspace as you assert. All colours specified by SMPTE are encodable.
    Further, RGB is a component format - the terms PAL and NTSC are meaningless in its context - as is YPbPr. Thus YPbPr is not decoded, but encoded into PAL or NTSC. And do you really think MPEG2 4:2:0 produces 'full' colour!?

    Bonzo - it's true, amplitude and bandwith reduction do occur in the creation of the single C channel from Pb and Pr - but there should be no further loss during RGB decoding.
     
  8. R N M

    R N M
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hmm, re-reading Bonzo's post, I think I' misread what he said the first time around. He's correct and so am I. We're actually saying the same thing in different ways, pretty much, but from different angles.

    But that still ammounts to the fact my inforation is correct.

    Mark, Where exactly are you getting yur information from, if you don't mind me asking?

    We have 2 DVD writers here at the company, and another at the Media College where I teach video technology part time.
    Most of my information comes directly from documentation that accompanied our hardware, but there's some also from other tutors and detailed DVD technology site, the current URL of which escapes me.

    Point is, that it's all the saME in regards to the YUV colour signal. In fact, if we worked differently when authoring disks, in the manner you said is correct, we'd have major playback problems.

    Your information just simply does not correlate either to our own encoding, the use of our software, the documentation accompanying it, or what we have to teach at the college. All tutors teach the YUV, and not becuase I've told them about it; but because it's listed in all the tech handbooks as to how it works.

    Are you telling me everything we do and know is wrong?

    4.43 has no bearing on PAL. 4.43 is in reference to NTSC drop-frame 29.97fps playback that is used for colour instead of the 30fps for NTSC monochorme. If i'm thinking correctly, the 4.43 is a simplified ratio of the 29.97 frame rate, and isn't even in reference to any colour issues, but that's something I'm not sure on. NSC judder is due to frame repetition.

    When i was refering to the full colour pallette, I was meaning the full range available to MPEG2, not every colour under the sun. Yes, thanks I know all about blue shade limitation, and of course pixel repetetion and all the other compression & encoding methods.

    One thing you are completely wrong about is NTSC colour limitations. If you don't think NTSC has a limited colour range, the easiest way to find out is to whack in an Adobe program such as Photoshop or Premiere and start clicking around on the colour pallette. You should see a little exclamation mark icon pop up from time to time to inform you that the selected colour will not display correctly on NTSC becasue the system does not support it. Even RGB an NTSC set is limited in comparison to PAL, becuase the NTSC sets are not able to support it. It's always been this way, excluding HDTV.

    As such, DVD YUV is encoded to compensate for this. If you output the full available MPEG2 range to NTSC, you get display problems, so when outputting in NTSC the player limits the range accordingly. Outputting in PAL 60 provides an NTSC frame rate and size with a PAL colour signal. Hence PAL 60= PAL for colour format, 60hz for frame rate. YUV is simply the technique Bonzo reffered to, but without using the name. So I, and my information are correct.

    I don;t know where you're getting your information, but it's a bit off the mark. Do you have any involvement in the industry like myself? Encoding DVD is something we do at least once a month here.

    I'll try to find the DVD tech page that lists all this, for you to see.
     

Share This Page

Loading...