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Current Panasonic VIERA DX902 TX-65DX902B & TX-58DX902B Issues

rickmoz

Active Member
I made some videos of a few of the problems I have to demonstrate them to Panasonic, you can also view them here if interested:

Amazon prime video forgetting settings:

BBC iPlayer not going in to full HDR mode (note at the end demonstrating how TV is supposed to go in to HDR mode with Amazon).

Youtube only having UHD, not HDR:

@Eddy555 also gave me his case number for the promised HDR support in Youtube statement, so let's see what a supervisor has to say about that!

I have yet to cover the stuck in normal/dynamic bug in a video as it happens less often so it's harder to reproduce, I'll keep trying though!

Still in conversation with them, still awaiting reply.
Still awaiting BBC reply.

My conclusion, regarding the lack of proper HLG thus far is this:
There are profiles shown (top right) for each input mode. For HDR this seems to always be blank, but for any app in SDR (Youtube, iPlayer or even Amazon/Netflix with non HDR titles) this shows "VOD".

VOD is obviously a profile that either doesn't support HDR or is used when the app doesn't send the call to the TV about HDR (eg Amazon/Netflix with non HDR shows).

When a HDR call is made to the TV by an app, it uses the same HDR profile for all apps, just the same as the same profile is used with VOD. This just appears blank.

Correct behavior therefore should be the TV does not use the VOD profile with HLG playback and instead uses the "blank" HDR profile that is used in Netlfix/Amazon with HDR titles. Instead right now it only uses the VOD profile, probably because its not triggering the correct profile on the TV.

With an update to Youtube, it should also be enabling the HDR profile just the same as the other apps.

All youtube/BBC/Panasonic have to do is make that link, surely it can't be hard.
Google uses vp9 profile 2 for there hdr in you tube and the Dx902 doesn’t have the hardware to decode, it does have standard vp9 for 4k though
 

rickmoz

Active Member
Has that ever been confirmed though? Panasonic told me YT HDR support would be coming
If I remember there was an interview I think at the Panasonic conversation 2017 and it said there that it wouldn’t be coming to dx902 due to hardware. I’ll see if can find it.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Google uses vp9 profile 2 for there hdr in you tube and the Dx902 doesn’t have the hardware to decode, it does have standard vp9 for 4k though
Nevertheless, there are some nice new features coming “My Home Screen 2.0”, which is the new name for the platform. First of all, Amazon Video will be available as an app and it will support up to 4K HDR streaming quality. YouTube will also be available to stream in 4K HDR quality on the 2017 TVs. Last year’s models lacked the VP9-Profile2 hardware decoder that was required, which is why YouTube was capped at 4K (no HDR).
Panasonic 2017 TV line-up - full overview with prices - FlatpanelsHD

Edit* I see you beat me to it :smashin:
Looks correct and very much the same as with HDR10+

I guess that's what their technical department will tell me, but let's see what the supervisor says about the false claim in @Eddy555 case. Panasonic did continue to sell the DX902 in its lineup in 2017.

On a separate note, @Eddy555 you're right with Netflix. It uses the VOD profile for HDR and SDR. This complies with me saving professional 2 as my VOD profile whilst Amazon defaults every time to True cinema. Professional 2 is used correctly for the VOD profile in Netflix and stays on the same profile when switching to HDR mode and despite being still on professional 2 it switches to rec2020 and backlight on full.

It seems like they didn't really know how they wanted presets and profiles to work when they designed the TV, ideally you want a separate HDR profile for everything, not sharing a profile with SDR. It basically means you can't choose separate adaptive backlight control settings for SDR and HDR in Netflix. So really there should be a HDR profile saved for VOD also or simply a single HDR profile used similar to Amazon.. Without certain settings being forgot of course. Either that or it should remember independently the adaptive backlight control settings the same as backlight and gamma when HDR is engaged.

Because of the way the profile is shared it means that you have to choose adaptive backlight control settings for both in app HDR and SDR, you can't keep gamma for SDR on BT.1886 either unless you also adaptive keep backlight control on min or off/light sensor off/contrast control off for HDR. You can however keep gamma settings separate unlike adaptive backlight control.

Netflix even uses the HDR professional 2 preset and VOD profile with HDR in its menu. Not the normal/dynamic menu presets in other apps like Amazon or YouTube.

Compare this to Amazon the VOD profile is used with SDR and the blank HDR profile for HDR. This is probably why some apps sometimes get stuck in normal dynamic mode since they still think they are in the menu upon video playback.

Interestingly when doing some in depth testing it seems so far that certain settings are only being lost within the Amazon app. Sharpness defaults to 30, colour temperature to normal and intelligent frame creation to min. The same settings are forgotten, every time for me now. I keep trying to get the TV to forget settings in other apps but can't repeat it for now, I also can't repeat it getting stuck in normal/dynamic but I think they may happen less often after periods of the TV being used or turned off.

Even if I choose a preset other than True Cinema when playing HDR in Amazon it doesn't remember and reverts back to true cinema next time and forgets 3 settings.
Compare this to using true cinema for HDR on external inputs, settings aren't forgotten.

So basically the issue is isolated to Amazon for me at least, I'm guessing it should be staying in the VOD profile but instead resets to a default true cinema profile every time and/or never remembers the colour temperature, sharpness and intelligent frame creation settings.

In case you wondered the HLG trial in iPlayer uses the VOD profile also similar to Netflix but it continues to let you set gamma to BT.1886. Of course it doesn't put the backlight to full or remember your gamma setting for HDR either, unlike Netflix.

I don't understand why they made it so complicated, even with external inputs if you use both SDR and HDR you can't choose different profiles for HDR/SDR, which means you have to choose a uniform adaptive backlight control setting for SDR and HDR (eg a UHD Blu-Ray player using both HDR and SDR).

After my last factory reset I haven't touched recording on the TV or any usb devices for that matter and the iPlayer still works so I'm guessing something related to this breaks iPlayer, not that it is necessarily to do with recording simultaneously.

#deep breath
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
I'm quite sure there's something wrong with the live UHD trial right now not only with hlg but motion. It's hard to tell but somehow I find it stutters too much.

I wonder if the app is only sending 25hz or something.

I know the TV isn't the best at motion but I don't feel the same watching broadcast TV.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Has anyone else noticed the motion stuttering in the trial?

Anyhow I am not having much luck with Panasonic, its got to the stage now where I am getting the same answer over and over again. Plus some real oddities bundled in too.

I mentioned the settings problem with Amazon reverting to a default True Cinema preset and the reply from their technical department was that the TV could save settings to an SD card. What the hell is that about? :eek:

So yeah, that is the kind of technical department Panasonic have, when you actually reach them, which you have to do by being put in touch with a supervisor and he needs to escalate your case.

I am not giving up though! Persistence is key.

The answers from them so far:

  1. Youtube HDR they are just telling me that there is no other information available and that this will be released when available through an update on the website. I asked them in my last reply for a confirmation they are releasing an update and they avoided answering the question directly so I have asked again.
  2. iPlayer HLG HDR, they put me through to the technical department and their answer was a bandwidth issue. In the last email I mentioned I do not have a bandwidth issue as I have the TV connected directly to the router via Ethernet and a 76mbps fibre connection, they again refused to read that and still are saying its a bandwidth issue (even when HDR will work at lower resolution if you have worse bandwidth).
  3. Amazon Prime Video reverting to True Cinema and default settings. They keep telling me that each app remembers different settings and that this is normal. I have explained to them several times, including videos and they still say this. It's also incorrect as the TV remembers the settings you set in the VOD profile between apps.
  4. They are still working on a fix for the iPlayer not launching problem which seems to be related to using recording on the TV. If you have this issue until they release a fix my advice would not to use any recording directly on the TV to see if the issue comes back for you, for me it hasn't since I have done that.
At first things looked promising but overall they are very bleak now, I will keep it up but I fear the lack of time the supervisor I am speaking to is hurting my case. that won't get any better either since the BBC announcement.

I am also wary that the BBC has removed the DX902 from their compatibility list from the world cup, I have yet to receive a reply back from them regarding my open case with HLG not working so I'll have to contact them again.

It's very disappointing to say the least, but we have to remember we are not alone with this. Sony users and Samsung users have the same problem on their 2016 and 2017(Sony only) TVs too. Their customer service is also bad so we have to be grateful for what we have I guess.

The biggest hope for anyone wanting to watch the world cup is to hope it's supported on the Roku+ stick. It works currently in the trial but its not on the BBC compatibility list yet.

If you have Virgin the V6 box is on the list but is listed as TBD so there may be hope there.

Nothing about integrated apps on the consoles, blu-ray players, streaming boxes/sticks or BT Vision/Sky is even mentioned on the list either so god knows what will happen.

Please anyone else with issues too, contact panasonic here: [email protected]
 

Eddy555

Member
It makes you wonder who you are actually getting hold of when you contact them. They don't seem to have a good understanding of the product you are talking about. Granted they will have to cope with questions on the entire Panasonic range, but there should be someone who understands what the TV's can and can't do and we don't appear to be getting hold of them.
Full marks for your efforts so far though. Well try and fire off an email to them when I get chance. I'm currently battling EuroCarParts at the moment to fix some problems with a big order I have. If it's not one company is another at the moment.
 

evh22

Active Member
Has anyone else noticed the motion stuttering in the trial?

Anyhow I am not having much luck with Panasonic, its got to the stage now where I am getting the same answer over and over again. Plus some real oddities bundled in too.

I mentioned the settings problem with Amazon reverting to a default True Cinema preset and the reply from their technical department was that the TV could save settings to an SD card. What the hell is that about? :eek:

So yeah, that is the kind of technical department Panasonic have, when you actually reach them, which you have to do by being put in touch with a supervisor and he needs to escalate your case.

I am not giving up though! Persistence is key.

The answers from them so far:

  1. Youtube HDR they are just telling me that there is no other information available and that this will be released when available through an update on the website. I asked them in my last reply for a confirmation they are releasing an update and they avoided answering the question directly so I have asked again.
  2. iPlayer HLG HDR, they put me through to the technical department and their answer was a bandwidth issue. In the last email I mentioned I do not have a bandwidth issue as I have the TV connected directly to the router via Ethernet and a 76mbps fibre connection, they again refused to read that and still are saying its a bandwidth issue (even when HDR will work at lower resolution if you have worse bandwidth).
  3. Amazon Prime Video reverting to True Cinema and default settings. They keep telling me that each app remembers different settings and that this is normal. I have explained to them several times, including videos and they still say this. It's also incorrect as the TV remembers the settings you set in the VOD profile between apps.
  4. They are still working on a fix for the iPlayer not launching problem which seems to be related to using recording on the TV. If you have this issue until they release a fix my advice would not to use any recording directly on the TV to see if the issue comes back for you, for me it hasn't since I have done that.
At first things looked promising but overall they are very bleak now, I will keep it up but I fear the lack of time the supervisor I am speaking to is hurting my case. that won't get any better either since the BBC announcement.

I am also wary that the BBC has removed the DX902 from their compatibility list from the world cup, I have yet to receive a reply back from them regarding my open case with HLG not working so I'll have to contact them again.

It's very disappointing to say the least, but we have to remember we are not alone with this. Sony users and Samsung users have the same problem on their 2016 and 2017(Sony only) TVs too. Their customer service is also bad so we have to be grateful for what we have I guess.

The biggest hope for anyone wanting to watch the world cup is to hope it's supported on the Roku+ stick. It works currently in the trial but its not on the BBC compatibility list yet.

If you have Virgin the V6 box is on the list but is listed as TBD so there may be hope there.

Nothing about integrated apps on the consoles, blu-ray players, streaming boxes/sticks or BT Vision/Sky is even mentioned on the list either so god knows what will happen.

Please anyone else with issues too, contact panasonic here: [email protected]
Dodge - Thanks for the link, I’ve sent an email this evening and echo your sentiments that the only way this will improve is for all us owners to get on the case.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
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Dodgexander

Moderator
Gotta laugh 2 years on and Panasonic release their flagship OLED with only 2x full bandwidth HDMI ports.

The DX902 has 4x full bandwidth.

They are losing it, I'm sure of it. Do they realise how badly their 2018 flagship is going to look next year when there is 10bit 4:4:4 capable ports possible with HDMI 2.1?

I truly believe this TV is going to hold out longer than we even anticipated. OLED is already at its peak of advancement and the new Q9FN although fantastic isn't that much better than the DX902 really.

It is going to take more than dynamic metadata and HDMI 2.1 to make me want to upgrade that's for sure. Next fest will be HFR(high frame rate) probably at the next olympics/euro champs/world cup.

There are big downsides to this tv, don't get me wrong but having one must be similar to driving round in an old Jag, it may get outdated but it's still pleasurable to own and drive 10 years on.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
Hi @Dodgexander how did your conversations with Panasonic end up regarding the issues you listed?
It got to the point where the supervisor refused to help me anymore and said I have to send it a complaint, something I admit I should have done but haven't got round too.

It's clear they couldn't give a damn about customers, but to be fair it's not just them. It's the same for all the manufacturers.

The only one that seems to be ahead of the others when it comes to updates and bugs seems to be LG, credit to them for that.
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Gotta laugh 2 years on and Panasonic release their flagship OLED with only 2x full bandwidth HDMI ports.

The DX902 has 4x full bandwidth.

They are losing it, I'm sure of it. Do they realise how badly their 2018 flagship is going to look next year when there is 10bit 4:4:4 capable ports possible with HDMI 2.1?

I truly believe this TV is going to hold out longer than we even anticipated. OLED is already at its peak of advancement and the new Q9FN although fantastic isn't that much better than the DX902 really.

It is going to take more than dynamic metadata and HDMI 2.1 to make me want to upgrade that's for sure. Next fest will be HFR(high frame rate) probably at the next olympics/euro champs/world cup.

There are big downsides to this tv, don't get me wrong but having one must be similar to driving round in an old Jag, it may get outdated but it's still pleasurable to own and drive 10 years on.
To be fair I think many like myself only ever use one HDMI in due to using an AVR so my other 3 are redundant.
 

Comfypants35

Active Member
When the picture is to dark do I increase backlight setting to make the picture brighter?..... There is s brightness slider as well.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused :)
 

tomprescott_128

Active Member
When the picture is to dark do I increase backlight setting to make the picture brighter?..... There is s brightness slider as well.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused :)
Yes I would increase the Backlight to make the picture brighter. I would not touch the brightness setting as this would effect the blacks. What do you have your Backlight set too at the moment?
 
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aoaaron

Well-known Member
Gotta laugh 2 years on and Panasonic release their flagship OLED with only 2x full bandwidth HDMI ports.

The DX902 has 4x full bandwidth.

They are losing it, I'm sure of it. Do they realise how badly their 2018 flagship is going to look next year when there is 10bit 4:4:4 capable ports possible with HDMI 2.1?

I truly believe this TV is going to hold out longer than we even anticipated. OLED is already at its peak of advancement and the new Q9FN although fantastic isn't that much better than the DX902 really.

It is going to take more than dynamic metadata and HDMI 2.1 to make me want to upgrade that's for sure. Next fest will be HFR(high frame rate) probably at the next olympics/euro champs/world cup.

There are big downsides to this tv, don't get me wrong but having one must be similar to driving round in an old Jag, it may get outdated but it's still pleasurable to own and drive 10 years on.

yup honeycomb backlight banding aside.. why is just hard to-unsee, and halo/effect, this tv is great.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
yup honeycomb backlight banding aside.. why is just hard to-unsee, and halo/effect, this tv is great.
I would be more unhappy with the scary reports of tint and "banding" on the OLEDs to be honest ;)

But I know what you mean. At the end of the day perfect just doesn't exist...so far anyway.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
I would be more unhappy with the scary reports of tint and "banding" on the OLEDs to be honest ;)

But I know what you mean. At the end of the day perfect just doesn't exist...so far anyway.

for me its the image retention which turns me off OLED.... cba babying my screen.
 

ghostmoves

Novice Member
I only have one problem with the 902 ( 58 inch ) - the screen uniformity / viewing angles cause discoloration in black and white movies. When viewed from dead centre, the edges of the image fade and look like they've got a pink or sometimes orange tint. Anyone else notice problems like this with black and white pictures on the 902?

Colour material looks amazing - no smearing, no judder. I use the dark frame insertion mode ( clear motion ) and boost the contrast from 90 to 100 to compensate for the drop in brightness and the motion is as natural as my gt series plasma. Adaptive backlight on mid - anything less and the blacks aren't deep enough.

Has anyone compared a 902 to a 952 OLED? I'd be interested to know how the two compare...
 

johnmerrick

Active Member
I have had the 58dx902b for 18 months now and this morning whilst watching it the screen went black, then after a few seconds the power lights went off. I have been unable to get the tv back on. I haven't changed the fuse yet because when i plug the tv in I hear a click in the back which must indicate that there is power going to it (?). Not sure if i am wrong there. I have cleared excess dust out and also tried the standby on and off button to the right but still nothing.

Anyone else had this issue or can diagnose? Thanks
 

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