Crystalio II waiting time just too long

faria

Standard Member
Hi everone i never in my life wait to long for a Gadget, it's almost a year :mad: :lease:

Crystalio where are you :hiya:

can sameone wake me up please when they are available :boring:
 

loonatic

Novice Member
Yep...had my black VPS3800 for about 10 days now :D

I pre-ordered one way back in January...gizlaroc was the first person on the forums - in fact in the UK - to get a production model...I'm number 11 I think.

I'm still playing around with setting it up with both my plasma and my projector but so far I am happy to say it is way better than the Crystalio I and Lumagen Pro HDP I have owned in the past....like I said well worth the wait and all I can say is that Lumagen's Radiance will have to go a long way to beat it.

Cheers, Lee
 

creative-av

Novice Member
Hi Lee,

How are you connecting the Crystalio to your Panny? What is better on the Crystalio compared to the Lumagen?

Cheers,

Steve
 

loonatic

Novice Member
I hve both an RGBHV and a HDMI connection from the CII to my Panny.

The RGBHV connection is better but running 720p via HDMI is not that far behind TBH.

I swapped my Lumagen for a CI a long time ago - and a lot of firmware upgrades ago - so a comparision is not really possible.

The image I am getting from Sky though is the best I've seen. The Gennum processing does a very good job with even the lower bitrate channels and the main channels look great. It has a very CRTish look to the image and not at all digital looking. The VXP noise reduction is also very effective and on it's lowest setting helps clean up the image without any of the usual NR issues.

The user interface is outstanding and dead easy to use...to get up'n'running took only a matter of minutes...and the built-in test patterns make getting a 1:1 pixel mapping a piece of cake.

I am still tweaking though and also I'm stuck with an old DVD player until I source a new SDI model...but even that looks better than my old Denon 3910 did.

Cheers, Lee
 

creative-av

Novice Member
Thanks Lee. Have you tried it with any HD material?

Only question left for most people is black or silver and can I afford a Panny 50PHD8 aswell ;)

I wonder how a new Fuji 58 series and the C2 will look.

Steve
 

loonatic

Novice Member
I have a large collection of DVHS titles and those that I have wacthed so far look great...they are much more detailed than via a direct HDMI 1080i connection whilst also looking more filmic. The panning shots are also smoother due to outputting a cadence locked 48Hz.

I haven't thought about HD-DVD yet and nothing on SkyHD makes me want to upgrade yet.

My Panny is silver to match my Kef speakers...but the rest of my kit in my rack is black. The CII looks great in black and is even better built than the the CI...and the remote is super sexy with lovelly blue backlighting...shame I won't use it really due to have a universal jobbie.

The Fuji, if it accepts native over DVI or HDMI might have the edge over the Panny but for my the panny has the nice looking image over the current 50 series. I won't be buying another plasma until 1080p are the norm and with the current price of the Panny's the Fuji would have to be an awful lot better to be worth it...remember with the Fuji and CII combo you will be paying for a lot of electronics that you won't be using.

Cheers, Lee
 

creative-av

Novice Member
Cheers Lee.

At the moment it looks like the Fuji won't be able to do [email protected] over HDMI, only 60Hz.

Will you be upgrading your dvd player to say a Arcam DV79 or Pio 989 so you can get 576i over HDMI?

Steve
 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
Waste of time to go with the Arcam unless you really need to squeeze a little more out of the sound side, personally I still think the Philips SDI and a decent cd player/transport is the way to go.

I have not tried the Oppo SDI yet, could be a good sdi player for £399, as long as the sound is alright with films.

Nice feature of the CII is having gamma correction per output and per input. So you can adjust the gamma for R, G and B seperately from black through to 100ire for both overall to correct for your display, and then again per input to correct for your source too.

I am going to have a real play with that one night next week, I have just been too busy over the last few weeks, not been sitting down till 10pm every night and then just want to watch some stuff and not **** about! :)
 

loonatic

Novice Member
SteveJR said:
Cheers Lee.

At the moment it looks like the Fuji won't be able to do [email protected] over HDMI, only 60Hz.

Will you be upgrading your dvd player to say a Arcam DV79 or Pio 989 so you can get 576i over HDMI?

Steve
As Giz said SDI is the way to go...plus with interlaced HDMI you are still stuck with our old friend Mr HDCP :mad:

I'm still looking for a 963SA but might give the Marantz DV7600 that Henry is expecting in a week or so a go...might be a good compromise as it should make for a decent audio player too...well for me at least...audio is not my thing...image i everything :D

Cheers, Lee
 

Mr THX

Active Member
Interesting read so far, could someone post a link to any deatils/spec and info on the price of the Crystalio 2 ?? Where have you sourced it from?
 

creative-av

Novice Member
Is Henry able to do the SDI mods on the DV7600 then?

Mr THX - Crystalio 2 info is from http://www.crystalio.com/. UK Price is £2999 for the VPS3300 model and £3699 for the VPS3800 Pro model.

Most people are ordering from CRT Projectors. There are other sellers aswell - google "Crystalio 2" and check out the sponsored links.

Steve
 

loonatic

Novice Member
Henry is able to modify a number of players, some of which are listed on his site but he can do others as well.

But he is going to be selling the DV7600 pre-modded, in both black and silver, at a decent price too.

Cheers, Lee
 

Mr THX

Active Member
Cheers for that Lee / Steve ..... Jesus :eek: does this do so much more than say a Lumagen Vision :confused: at three times the price I'm left wondering if when I take delivery of a 50" PHD panel whether I need to spend so much on a scaler/processor ?? I'm all for the "you pay for what you get" theory but they are more than the panel itself. :rolleyes:
 

creative-av

Novice Member
Its an expensive hobby this av lark!

C2 is using the most advanced and newest technology currently hence the higher price tag. When the new Lumagen Radiance comes out the price tag will be in a similar league to the C2.

Only you can decide if the extra pq is worth the price.
 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
SteveJR said:
Its an expensive hobby this av lark!

C2 is using the most advanced and newest technology currently hence the higher price tag. When the new Lumagen Radiance comes out the price tag will be in a similar league to the C2.

Only you can decide if the extra pq is worth the price.


Look at the price of some of the scalers from a few years ago, we were looking at £10k for a plasma and the same again for a scaler, Faroudja VP400 for $25k anyone?? It was a bag of nuts!

Seriously the scalers around now are absolute bargins.
God I sound like I am trying to convince my wife! :rotfl:
 

creative-av

Novice Member
Just put your foot down Giz. When you do make sure you have a big diamond in your pocket as a backup just incase ;)
 

faria

Standard Member
hi LEE thank you for your help it looks like your are an expert.

have a lok at this below and let know what you think.

as you probaly know in the very near future or probaly now there is going to be the New LCD's and Plasmas 1080p a real 1920x1080 progrecive screens,can sameone explain to me what benefits are we going to get if we use the expencive £3000+ video scalors to view HDTV.
at the moment i can see the benifits of course that's because at the moment 99% of lcd's and plasmas are 1080i and up scaling all the sd staff.
maybe i'm a bit confuse. but if i'm not what is the point using a video scalor????????????
 

Mr THX

Active Member
faria said:
hi LEE thank you for your help it looks like your are an expert.

have a lok at this below and let know what you think.

as you probaly know in the very near future or probaly now there is going to be the New LCD's and Plasmas 1080p a real 1920x1080 progrecive screens,can sameone explain to me what benefits are we going to get if we use the expencive £3000+ video scalors to view HDTV.
at the moment i can see the benifits of course that's because at the moment 99% of lcd's and plasmas are 1080i and up scaling all the sd staff.
maybe i'm a bit confuse. but if i'm not what is the point using a video scalor????????????
Good point about the 1080 stuff.........???
 

loonatic

Novice Member
That's a tough question to ask faria and I'm in no way an expert just a keen amateur looking to make the most of my current and future video sources.

In an ideal world if your display is 1080p and accepts 1080p @ 24Hz, 48Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz and your source is always 1080p then a video processor would have little to do.

But in the real world we have all sorts of standards PAL 576i is not go anywhere just yet for the majority of programming and lost of people have stacks of PAL and NTSC 480i DVDs which they aren't just going to throw away because HD is here. The we have HD which can be either 720p, 1080i or 1080p and at various refresh rates.

So in that situation the video processor will, hopefully, take whatever input format you throw at it deinterlace it and display it on your output device at its native resolution at the correct refresh rate.

You can also do things like take the 59.94Hz output of an NTSC DVD and play it back at a cadence locked 47.95Hz thus helping to reduce the panning judder.

But a video processor does so much more...for a start it works as a switch box taking in multiple sources and outputting them to your device through just one or two cables (analog and digital in my case) plus the Crystalio II also allows me to connect those same input devices to my projector also saving me the added cost and complication of a HDMI matrix switch.

A video processor will often have inputs that your display device doesn't...in the case of the Panny plasma it only has a VGA input as standard...the Crystalio II has many inputs including multiple YUV and HDMI plus dual HD-SDI inputs which provide the best connection today for DVD and Sky+ and could be used in the future with modded HD devices.

Then we come to the calibration features which provide you with the means to get the best possible image. In the Crystalio II case not only do you get the basic pictures settings but it also allows for a 20 point gamma correction on the RGB channels for both output and for individual inputs.

You also get other features such as cropping inputs, adjusting for overscan, noise reduction, you can perform frame rate conversion if needed.

As an added benefit the VPS3800 also has a HD media player built-in that is internally wired for HD-SDI so playback of downloaded .TS files will be fully processed by the Gennum chip.

Anyway...that's my view.

Cheers, Lee
 

faria

Standard Member
hi thank you again form the explanation.
ok we will get the extra inputs on video processor i have to agree with but it seems to be a exp £ way of contection av sources where we can buy a av video audio box to conect all your gadgets.
anyway i have one more question to ask you.
the Crystalio II has hd sdi inputs right, what's the point if you have hd sdi input and not hd sdi output like same other video processores in the market http://www.tvone.com/c2-7200-main.shtml
i'm maybe wrong but if you conect a hd sdi exp: video camera via a hd sdi in the Crystalio II and outup via exp: hdmi it means down scaling anless if i'm confused.
 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
Faria,

the main point of a scaler is to bypass a screens cheap interal processing, even if you feed a 1080p screen 1080p it will not be pixel mapped and bypassing this.
You need a video processor, and the capability on the screen to make the adjustments, to get that crappy processing bypassed.
Same now with 1280x720 screens, you don't just feed it a 720p signal and it is pixel mapped, it doesn't work like that as screens are set up with overscan etc.

The point of SDI is this, on 99% of digital sources, what goes on after the mpeg decoder usually managers to ruin a perfectly good image, so we are trying to bypass that so the video processor has as good an image to do its magic with. Simple as that. Your screen will have have its prefered input, in the case of the Panny plasmas that is RGBhv on the BNC connectors, so that is what you output, and don't worry the D/A conversion on the CII is as near to perfect as you are going to see, it's as clean as a whistle. If all sources were as good as the CII we would not have to worry, but I am afraid they are not, take the Teac DV50s, it is a flagship player costing £4500 that you would expect to not need help, so why does sdi into the CII look so much better than YUV or HDMI directly from the player? If a £4.5k player needs help then you start to unerstand just how good these processors are.

It is obviously the money that is concerning you, what you are asking is does it add £3.5k worth of picture quality?
Well only you can decide that, but if you had just bought a £20k projector and not a £2k plasma it may change the way you look at it?
All I will say is this, if you don't want to spend the money don't spend any time with one as you will ending up buying sooner rather than later! ;)
 

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