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Crystalio and PHD8 (via DVI) - 1:1 @50Hz

D

DrB

Guest
Can somebody confirm for certain that the PHD8 series can be driven in its native resolution via the DVI card ? Proposed setup is 65PHD8 linked to crystalio II via the DVI-D card and the crystalio connected to a denon amp via again DVI-D or HDMI.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
DrB

I doubt anyone in the UK can confirm what your asking - the TH-65PHD8BKJ has not been released as yet in the UK.

The TH-65PHD7BKJ is still the current model and no imminent release date for an 8 Series as far as I'm aware.

I can tell you I have 1366x786(60) working with the TH-50PHD8BK and 1024x768(60) working with the TH-42PHD8BK via the DVI card - though using a different processor to the one you enquire about.

Best regards

Joe

PS Just re read your question - there was never any expectation for the DVI cards to do 1:1 at 50Hz only 60Hz.
 
D

DrB

Guest
Thanks Joe

Have you tried 50hz on the 50phd8 (1366 x 768) with your setup ? All I am asking I guess is whether the native resolution of the display can be accessed via one of the digital connectors (DVI more likely than HDMI I guess) at 50Hz ?

PS I would expect the all the 8 series to be the same - I know the 65phd8 is not out yet here but the cards are the same afaik.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
No they can't. Big ommision.
The new 1920x1080 65" may be able to do it but not the 65PHD8.
 

StooMonster

Well-known Member
DVI is typically fixed at 60Hz, which is not good for scalers/HTPC and 50Hz content.

HDMI is the route to take, because it accepts 50Hz; but, and this is a big but, typically only accept HD resolutions (720p and 1080i) at 50Hz and not ones native to many screens (e.g. 1366x768).

StooMonster
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
Yep native only at 60Hz, although 720p at 50Hz performs well on the screens.

I wouldn't be switching all the sources through the Denon amp though. It means the scaler will only recognise whichever source as one input, so overscan, grayscales, colour, will all be the same for each input and not take into account differences between them. Overscan especially where Sky likes to leap off to the left of the image on my box but the DVD goes slightly to the right, would be very weird having both those settings sharing the same one input!!

Or if budget no object wait for the 1080p 65" and fit a HD-SDI card, which will take 24fps and 25fps 1080p HD-SDI from a Crystalio II Pro.... effectively native resolution. Not cheap mind...
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello DrB

No 1:1 support at 50Hz - though 720P(50) is very good :)

Finding a Display with 1:1 at 50Hz is pretty rare.

I wouldn't assume anything about how the DVI card interacts with the TH-65PHD8BK - lets plug one in and test before we make any assumptions.

Its going to be a while before we see a UK spec 1080P Display from Panasonic.

As per Liam's advise plan your system such that all 'Primary' sources go direct to the Video Processor and only use the switching on your AV Amp/Receiver for secondary sources.

Best regards

Joe
 

mine

Standard Member
Joe Fernand said:
Hello DrB

No 1:1 support at 50Hz - though 720P(50) is very good :)

Finding a Display with 1:1 at 50Hz is pretty rare.

I wouldn't assume anything about how the DVI card interacts with the TH-65PHD8BK - lets plug one in and test before we make any assumptions.

Its going to be a while before we see a UK spec 1080P Display from Panasonic.

As per Liam's advise plan your system such that all 'Primary' sources go direct to the Video Processor and only use the switching on your AV Amp/Receiver for secondary sources.

Best regards

Joe
some thoughts :

in spring I bought a LG industrial 37" panel, attached a OEM Berghausboard (DVI-YC-Composite -no edidinfos)
panel came with a pdf with the exact timing parameters

NR [email protected],000 Hz over DVI with a NVidia 6600 GT and powerstrip in 5 min.


6,75 MHz crystallclear

[email protected] Hz over DVI ......there is no technical limitation - clearly stated by SI (manufactor of the pana DVI TRSM chip)

its a panasonic limitation isn`t it ?

and forgive me :

how long will panasonic treat us customers in pal countries as second class customers ?

I phoned with the pana product manger here in germany several times , and they are pretty aware of the issue but there is almost no hope...

and with drm and hdcp and dvb/s2 the idea of htpcs as multimedia centers for HD may be buried soon by the industrie and degraded to hacker and copy stations.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
I am sure that if you edit the edid on the input board you would have native at 50hz no problem at all.
 
J

JetJockey

Guest
Hi

Whats the story with these new Scalers that will do 1080 processing :confused:

I understand the Lumagen will also do it with the new firmware update soon.
What exactly are we looking at here? what is the difference, in this regard, between the present day and newer Scalers? :rolleyes:

Cheers, Gerald. :)

P.S. Can the SDI input board for the PHD8 be used to get any source that is fed into the Lumagen passed to the Panel?
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
The thing Lumagen will do is 1080i inverse telecine. This means it has the power to correctly apply 2:3 or 2:2 pulldown to the full 1080i signal in order to reassemble the fields into 1080p frames. With the correctly reassembled image, down or up scaling to the required output resolution is far more accurate. Other products (the Lumagen VisionDVI, DVDO etc) use just bob deinterlacing which can give combing errors and other deinterlacing issues. And that's about as far as my tech knowledge goes!! Where's Gordon when you need him lol

SDI on the PHD8 is interlaced only. HD-SDI would allow HD digital but the board is £800 ish and you would need a several thousand pound HD-SDI scaler to do anything with it!! The Lumagen will run to the DVI board, or the VGA input. Any signal the Lumagen takes in will be output to the one connection on the plasma. The only exception is anything HDCP protected (HDMI/DVI from DVD or HDTV) which will only display being connected to the DVI input on the plasma. Well, unless you use some other gadgetry.
 

madshi

Active Member
Liam @ Prog AV said:
Other products (the Lumagen VisionDVI, DVDO etc) use just bob deinterlacing which can give combing errors and other deinterlacing issues. And that's about as far as my tech knowledge goes!! Where's Gordon when you need him lol
Bob deinterlacing does not give combing errors, but it drops half of the vertical resolution. So basically you get a 1920x540p signal. Weave deinterlacing gives combing errors, but doesn't drop the resolution.
 

Welwynnick

Well-known Member
Hi JetJockey,

There are basically two sorts of new 1080 processors - those that use the Silicon Optix Realta HQV processor and those that use the Gennum VSX. The jury is out on which is better - implementation is probably more important.

The big deal with them is their capabilty to perform per-pixel motion-adaptive de-interlacing with 1080i VIDEO sources. In other words, the same thing that Lumagen, DVDO et al have been doing very successfully with standard definition video.

There should be about a dozen to chose from next year - the first should be the Calibre Vantage-HD, probably available in a few weeks.

regards, Nick
 
J

JetJockey

Guest
Thanks folks.

But now the burning question. :devil:

Is it worth waiting for one of these, with HD material about to start being broadcast in Jan? Or could one purchase a Lumagen ProHDP now and get a similar result with the release of a firmware update? :confused:

In other words, Is the difference in the final output signal going to be night and day, and if so, is it still worth waiting for the newer generation if they are going to cost megabucks in comparison to todays generation? :eek:

Thanks, Gerald. :)
 

Welwynnick

Well-known Member
Another good question, JetJockey,

There are lots of Lumagen supporters in these forums, so I would get shot down for recommending anything else. Nonetheless, even when the new HD scalers are available, the Vision HDP will still make a good case for itself as it will de-interlace 1080i from FILM sources properly. The new ones will work better from video sources, ie: programmes made for TV.

The new processors will be significantly more expensive ( £2-3k or more), but if you only want to watch feature films - from disc or dish, it doesn't matter - then the Lumagen would probably be a good choice.

I think I would want to find out what the Vantage-HD was like first, before committing a lot of money. Nobody wants to buy a new scaler every year.

regards, Nick
 

Likvid

Banned
Still Lumagen got lipsynch issues which the Iscan doesn't have due to it's capability to adjust audio-delay.

Also i beleive most people isn't attracted to the chassis Lumagen makes, it's a odd size and is very hard to place among the other equipment in the rack.

Good thing with Iscan is that it is 19" rack mountable.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello Likvid

As others have said not everyone finds the Lumagen units introduce enough delay to require any adjustment to their audio set-up - I'm not sure you can say the Lumagen has 'lip-synch issues'; its a Video Processor it doesn't touch your audio signal :)

Personally I'd rather have the best Video performance for my money and if it requires an external Audio delay as I don't have variable Audio Delay in my AV Receiver then I'd install a Felston.

Agreed that the Lumagen is not a thing of beauty - mind you once installed I tend not to want to see these units and find I want to turn off the lights on the DVDO if its in a rack on view when watching movies.

You can rack mount pretty much anything you want to using a rack tray.

Best regards

Joe
 

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