CRT vs Plasma/LCD

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by pmjoyce, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. pmjoyce

    pmjoyce
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    Say you wanted a 32-37" set...

    Space and form factor does not matter and cost is a secondary concern.

    Which technology offers the greatest PQ from Sky and DVD feeds (assuming the best quality inputs)?

    Of the CRT sets, there seems to be a lot of praise heaped on the Loewe units in these forums, can they really be called the BEST? Is this justified especially as they don't accept a progressive scan input? Will a unit that accepts a prog scan input look better playing DVDs than say an equivilent sized Loewe which does not?

    They certainly have admirable emphasis on design but what makes them better than any of the other High St brands?

    As a further requirement are there any CRT sets that would compliment input from a HTPC?

    I look forward to you opinions.
     
  2. geoff m

    geoff m
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    Hey Benrad, I hope you're joking! If not, back off!
     
  3. ukbubs

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    Valid questions politely put, which show that pmjoyce has spent some time looking around before posting.

    The issue of crt display for a hcpc is far from straightforward. I've been hanging around here for a couple for months, and am probably more confused now than I was when I started.

    1. Everybody was a noobie once
    2. If a thread has no value, then nobody will reply.
    3. If you're registering simply to be rude, then maybe you've got too much leisure time on your hands.
    4. (Maybe I've got too much leisure time on my hands getting tied up in this!!)
     
  4. pmjoyce

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    Thanks Geoff & Bubs - not sure what I've done to offend you benrad but I think this may be your problem here.

    I've been looking through these forums every now & then since I built my HTPC system 10 months ago. I'm not new to this but I am looking at investing some of my hard-earned cash and thought I might get the opinions of this community before I but something I'll regret later.

    I don't really want to get bogged down in this to be honest. Anyone got any opinions on my original post?
     
  5. Spacecat

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    Hi PM Joyce

    I am in roughly the same as you in that i wish to hook my HTPC up to a decent CRT display, for me LCD and Plasma do not have the picture quality i want but they do have the HTPC connections (DVI, VGA , component etc)
    I only use my HTPC for watching videos of TV programmes and listening to music, my main Movie watching is done via HTPC through my projector.

    All CRT TVs can accept PC video (if the pc has a Svideo out) and the TV has a scart or composite input. the best way is via svideo to scart lead (good quality cable)
    I am currently doing this and the picture is pretty good but not quite good enough.

    Basically you have (to my knowledge) 2 potential better quality connections to a CRT Tv for an HTPC

    1. Buy a CRT with component input and then get an adaptor from DVI to component
    from the PC. If you have a Radeon card an adaptor can be bought for $28 from ATI website. Not sure on how good the quality is but should be better than Svid to Scart

    2. You can buy a TV with a VGA input, LOEWE TVs 32 inch+ (nb they do not do 36inch!! just a 40 inch!) can have VGA upgrades amongst other things added to them
    and can apparently do high resolutions ( go to http://www.petermartin.co.uk) for information on they can do. The cheapest place I have seen Loewes is http://www.tvandvideodirect.com.
    some Finlux TVs also have a VGA connection and both the above sell them as well

    I went to Harrods last saturday to check out the TVs esp the Loewes and the picture quality is OUTSTANDING!! I am probably going to be buying one quite soon

    Make sure to get one with a fairly recent multimedia chassis, the top notch ones are the Articos and Aconda , mid range Mimo and Vitros, entry level Aventos and Nemos and Xelos. I saw an Aventos(not sure if it can take the VGA upgrade) and its picture was very good, the articos was stunning!!! MIMO was also superb

    best prices i have worked out for 32 inchers inc delivery (to london) and VGA upgrade are TVand video Direct

    Aconda £1214
    Mimo £1174
    Aventos £960
    Vitros £1134
    Nemos £1050
    Xelos £975

    Finlux £955

    so there you go!!!!
     
  6. eric2

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    Hi pmjoyce

    I've been looking at 28 to 32" sets and really wanted a LCD or Plasma. I found plasma's to big and LCD's disappointing. So I'm going for the CRT option, the quality is so much better for both watching reg TV and I believe still outperforms the others for DVDs etc. Its generally been a frustrating experience searching for the right TV for the following reasons:

    CRT - Not as good as my older tv for watching general tv and sport but much improved for watching films. Bulky and ugly in size but cheaper and better value for money and at the moment the best quality but not for long.

    LCD - Looks great on the style style but a big downgrade in quality from CRT. Sport and fast moving images look awful. Improving fast and will be the technology for near future, but not there yet.

    Plasma - To big for the size of my room but could be OK for the size your looking at. Would work well in a large room, has that cinema feel to them. Very expensive and could be old technology already.

    But at the end of the day its what suits you're needs as there is no clear winner and whatever you buy will probably be out of date soon, as technology for screens is evolving so quickly. Go and view some of the recommended Screens on this forum and make your own mind up from the viewing is my best advice.

    Good luck
     
  7. pmjoyce

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    Thanks Eric - you've pretty much confirmed what I'd thought about the pros & cons of the various technoologies out there. I reckon I'll be looking at a good quality CRT to start with.

    My current CRT is a 5 year old curved screen cheapy 28" (Matsui), I use s-video to connect to my HTPC but quality is pretty poor here.

    Spacecat - I'm going to have a look at some Loewes this weekend if I can find anywhere close (JL in High Wycombe don't stock any Loewe CRTs any more - lack of demand apparently). Some great info there, I think I'll see if I can get a demo of one with the VGA card running from a PC, either way they look like fine sets. Thanks for the info and pricing :thumbsup:

    Does anyone have any opinions on a Loewe set without a DVD component feed compared to another brand with? Much difference in quality on 32" CRT's?
     
  8. kotya

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    There could be other reasons going for plasma. I was considering getting only because I have few strange factors:

    1. I have a small kid that loves touching or hit any hardware system in the house.
    2. I quite often walk in my room rather than sit and watch TV relaxed (chasing my kid or playing with him) and plasma (in my opinion) has the best angle of view available.
    3. Plasma doesn't have negative effects of CRT tubes. Again, because my kid likes to put his hands on the damn thing and watches TV from a few inches distance.

    I found wonderful Pioneer plasma, but it was way above my budget. The others looked not as good to my eyes in comparison with this Pioneer and I decided to go for CRT.

    :)
     
  9. alexs2

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    Benrad,if you have nothing useful to say,don't post at all.

    This sort of reply from one new member to another,who was simply asking for advice,is offensive,and of no practical use.
     
  10. LV426

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    It's always a difficult question to answer, and responses typically simply exhibit the responder's own choices. What is "best" is largely determined by your own preferences and/or visual acuity. No platform is without its flaws.

    One might say that a perfectly set-up CRT is "best" and in many respects it may well be. However, there are so many variables involved that a perfect CRT is about as rare as rocking-horse dung. For example, if things like less-than-perfect geometry and/or convergence and/or stability are issues which may seriously concern you, CRT may not be "best". A true 16x9 LCD or Plasma, on the other hand, is pretty well bound to suffer none of these issues.

    I'm not trying to "down" CRTs. For my own preference, I don't like these shortcomings - but that's my choice. Both LCD and Plasma (and the various RPTV technologies) all have their downsides. Choosing which is right for you is a matter of knowing what these are, seeing them for yourself, and then evaluating which you can cope with, best.
     
  11. alexs2

    alexs2
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    The construction and quality of many of the Loewe's is very good,and the picture quality is also excellent,but the best way of deciding is to see a number of sets,all using a DVd player and a DVD you know well,and try and compare a few.
    As to HTPC and TVs,looking for a TV that has component input would be very helpful,as running component video into a TV from something like an HTPC with a Sigma X-Card as the DVD player can give very nice results....it's what my HTPC is fitted with,and is designed very much for Tv replay of DVD's from a PC,with no processor overhead on the PC,as well as digital out for the sound,and analogue also,with choice of video outs and resolutions.
    If you're looking to buy an HTPC,it may be well worth talking to Phil Hale of UVEM,who runs the UVEM forum here,for advice and prices....superb service,and a very nice guy....highly recommended.
     
  12. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    This might help too - just received in my work-related newsfeeds today :

    Friday, September 3, 2004
    High-tech TV/ What to weigh before you buy
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Source: The Cincinnati Post

    Ohio, The Cincinnati Post via NewsEdge Corporation : A couple of truths regarding high-definition clarity: If you're buying an HDTV, make it a wide-screen set. Eventually, all television shows will be broadcast this way. Long-range (and wide- screen) planning pays off.
    When you buy an HDTV, high-definition stations will look spectacular, and if you're watching cable, the rest of the channels will look poor to fair. Don't worry, those analog channels are going away.

    If it's time to buy an HDTV, here are some of the technologies you'll be looking at:

    Cathode-Ray Tube

    Technology: The old-fashioned picture tube.

    Entry level: $800 for a 30-inch wide-screen set.

    What's to like: Excellent black level (brightness), which translates into superior detail in dimmer movie scenes. Superb picture quality.

    What's not to like: Bulk; weight (some exceed 300 pounds); limited screen size (about 40 inches). Plus-40 sets that use rear- projection technology to flash images from three CRTs against a mirror and then on to the screen require regular adjustment to prevent softening of the picture. These lowest-cost, rear- projection HDTV sets, starting at less than $1,500, will be abandoned by manufacturers for newer technology.

    Deep, dark secret: A rear-projection CRT set can produce a better picture than plasma screens.

    Fear factor: Dinosaur technology that won't be around too much longer.

    Bottom line: Still the least expensive way to get into HDTV.

    Plasma

    Technology: Gas plasma, a thin layer of gas-filled pixels between two glass panels.

    Entry level: About $3,000 for a lower-resolution 42-inch screen set.

    What's to like: Sexy looking, super thin (about 4 inches deep). Huge screen sizes. So-so black level. A picture that dazzles, though it looks better than it actually is.

    What's not to like: Very expensive. Like earlier computer monitors, can suffer burn-in if still images are left on the screen for hours. Doesn't last as long as a picture-tube set. They're heavier than they look -- they can weigh about 200 pounds. Can your wall handle it?

    Deep, dark secret: Although they still look great, most plasmas do not have enough pixels to display a true high-definition picture. For legit HDTV, a plasma set needs 1920x1080 resolution. The bargain- basement 42-inch Gateway model, for instance, has 852x480 resolution.

    Fear factor: The plasma picture dims as the set ages.

    Bottom line: Not the best choice from price-performance perspective, but hard to resist.

    LCD

    Technology: Liquid Crystal Display, light projected through a panel of liquid crystals.

    Entry level: $400 for a 15-inch flat panel, $2,000 for a 30-inch flat panel, $2,500 for a 50-inch LCD rear-projection set

    What's to like: Thinner screen (2 inches), longer life than plasma. Brighter than plasma, better viewing in bright room.

    Until recently, the screen sizes were too small for standard TV viewing. But larger screens are on the way -- Samsung showed off a 46-inch flat panel it said was the world's largest ($10,000, less than 100 pounds) at the Home Entertainment Show in May in New York.

    Big-screen, rear-projection LCD sets are here already. In a rear- projection LCD set, light is projected through three LCD panels before it's delivered to the screen. These sets are thinner and lighter than the big-screen analog sets that have been around for years.

    What's not to like: Very expensive. Slow response time can produce image flaws during action sequences. Keep an eye on resolution: Many LCD screens do not display a true high-definition image.

    Deep, dark secret: Some small LCD flat-panel sets are merely computer monitors with a TV tuner added at great expense. Creative types are buying inexpensive LCD computer monitors and adapting them for TV viewing with a cable box or satellite TV receiver.

    Fear factor: Prices should drop dramatically in the next few years. Is now the best time to buy a big-screen LCD?

    Bottom line: Tempting, but the big-screen prices are scary. .end (paragraph)<<The Cincinnati Post -- 08/21/04>>

    << Copyright ©2004 ProQuest Information and Learning Company; All Rights Reserved. >>



    Chris Muriel, Manchester.
     
  13. mgns

    mgns
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    I saw an Aventos(not sure if it can take the VGA upgrade) and its picture was very good, the articos was stunning!!! MIMO was also superb

    I'm pretty sure the 32in aventos can take the vga card (+ other loewe upgrades). strange that there was a difference in the picture quality between the aventos and the mimo as, from what i understand, they are the same except for a couple of speakers and the casing.

    i was in house of fraser a couple of weeks ago, it sounds as if loewe are phasing out their models from the aconda downwards (i.e. vitros, xelos, aventos) - just leaving the mimo. i guess this is because of lcd/plasma and the fact that these crts are very similar.

    anyway, let us know how it turns out.

    mgns
     
  14. Moo242

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    Just thought I'd add my two-penneth as I was recently in a similar situation.

    I bought a 36" Tosh Picture Frame TV about 2 months ago through which I was running a progressive scan signal. The picture was generally superb - deep blacks and and amazing detail. Unfortunately, the screen purity was dreadful and dirty marks and coloured patches made me take it back - the second set was the same. Refund given :(

    I then went back to the drawing board and the toss-up was between a Plasma or a Loewe.

    I went to see a properly set-up plasma and the picture was breathtaking - but with all the necessary bits and bobs (wall bracket, optional input boards, scalers) the cost was spiralling well over £2000. Added to that, the screen was just too big for my needs, I have a smallish house and a 42" screen was just plain overkill as far as I was concerned, buying anything smaller just seemed like a waste of time.

    On to the Loewe's and it was immediately apparent that they were something special. Again, auditioned one through all the best connections including the QED component to scart lead and the sheer 3-D like image quality was amazing. No, it doesn't have progressive scan but at 32" you simply won't see any benefit unless you are REALLY looking hard. Further down the line, I will be getting a VGA card and investing in a media box. VGA input into a Loewe is staggeringly good.

    The thing that really swung it for me was, and bear with me here, the 'lack' of features on the Loewe. You open the box - plug in your DVD and you get a great picture - job done :) The Tosh had about 6 or 7 picture processing features in total and it just drove me nuts. All of them were very nice but I just didn't understand the purpose of them all. Unless you are an AV nut who likes to tinker (nothing wrong with that, by the way - just not my thing) the Loewe will give you the most pleasing picture without any sweat or tears.

    If you want to go in and tinker, the service menu is the most user-friendly I've seen.

    Of course, it also goes without saying (IMO) that Loewe's are easily the most aesthetically pleasing, they are not as deep as most other CRT's and they shy away from some of the horrific, soulless designs of the Japanese models. I know its the picture that counts but I'm a sucker for a good design.

    I've had my Articos 32 for about a month now and it impresses me more every day. Watched Black Hawk Down last night and i was just grinning the whole way through 'cos it just looked so goddamn sweet :)

    Anyway, all I'll say is take your time choosing and happy shopping
     
  15. pmjoyce

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    A lot of really useful adivice here.

    Moo242 - I think we're going along the same lines here, thanks for the input. I too have a smallish space and a 42" screen would totally dominate.

    With the sound advice I have been given here I can now start to narrow down the auditions on where my cash should go...

    I think mgns is right - I believe (from reading numerous post here - esp Groundy's!) that the Avetos can take the Loewe upgrades incl VGA card.

    Cheers Chris - can't wait till we start getting HDTV over here!

    alexs2 - Interesting what you say about the Sigma X card, I built my HTPC about 10 months ago and generally very pleased with it - the only part I'm not happy with is the TV pic quality. I think that the final step in the chain is what's at fault here.

    Thanks for you input one-and all, much appreciated :)
     
  16. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Just a quick question...what sort of card are you using for your TV out currently?
     
  17. pmjoyce

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    A little over spec'd maybe - ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, just took it out of another machine I had lying around.
     
  18. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Not at all,just that a lot of PC video cards are not at their best when hooked up to a TV....I've got a similar Radeon in my HTPC for displaying the PC desktop on the RPTV,but for DVD replay,the X-Card is so much better it's not even in the same league.
    The Radeon gives a poorly defined image,with noticeable softening,and colours are nowhere near as well defined or clear.
    Do take a look at an X-Card if you can,as it's purely aimed at DVD reply from a PC onto a TV.
     
  19. pmjoyce

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    Just had a look at the spec of these cards here looks perfect really. Can't believe I didn't come across these before!

    Any ideas on where I can pick one of these up from? I've checked a few of my usual suppliers websites but no joy. Guess I'll email their saled dept.

    BTW the symptoms you describe "poorly defined image,with noticeable softening" is precisely what I notice but it's far less prevalent on DVD playback compared to TV (NTL digital cable).
     
  20. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Glad that helped....found it online at the following

    www.savastore.co.uk
    www.scan.co.uk

    Excellent value and good performance.

    But I'm sure there are more....mine was supplied fitted to my HTPC made by Phil Hale of UVEM.
     
  21. AML

    AML
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    everybody has give good advice, and in my opinion ( if you read this far down!)
    Ive had or have all 3 types of Displays.

    I love them all but for very different reasons.

    I have a Fujitsu 42" Plasma with the usual components and DVi Digital inputs. This TV offers HDTV resolutions and I feel is amazing for DVDs and for Digital TV viewing. The sheer size and picture quality is amazing.

    I also have a couple of LCDs. one a monitor and the other a TV/Monitor that I use as a monitor anyway.
    (30"and 22")

    I feel that the sharpnes of LCD is good but I also find that LCD suffer from a time delay. Which causes the blurry picture.

    Plasmas dont have this delay problem so TV and DVD viewing is best on the plasma.

    The LCD however make excelent monitors as they dont burn ( a common problem in Plasmas)

    So for gaming (another hobby of mine) the LCDs are best as a plasma I used to have ended up geting burnt badly and had to be returned.

    CRTs offer good quality Picture and resolution for gaming, TV and DVD viewing and are more affordable. Just smaller and therefore not all that good for home theater style DVD viewing. Also, I doubt you can hook up you PC to a CRT and get a high resolution picture.

    My LCD offers both, compnent and DVi which i can use for a game console and a PC.

    The ultimate display is still to come. It may be the OLED/PLED technologies that are being developed now.

    Then again it might not.

    Todays technologies have good and bad points. You just need to consider what you are going to need for your needs and go with what suites you best.

    I found that a combination of 2 is best!
    But then we dont all have such deep pockets!
     
  22. pmjoyce

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    Great - thanks for that. That should certainly make a difference! Now to figure out whether it'll work with my MS Media Center Edition... may be time to change OS

    AML: thanks for your input, unfortunately my pocket is nowhere near that deep!
     
  23. alexs2

    alexs2
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    No probs...not sure about compatibility,but mine runs under Windows XP Home,and alongside WMP 9,WinDVD Platinum and Winamp with no problems.
     
  24. Jack Bowyer

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    If you have a HTPC and are looking to buy a Loewe TV you really should take advantage of the VGA upgrade, the progressive scan when watching NTSC DVDs is the best I've seen. Not even the Arcam DV88 can match it.

    I once did a back to back test with a dv88 hooked upto a pana 32pd30 against a Loewe mimo 32 with HTPC - mimo 32 won everytime.

    Then again if you have mainly pal DVDs I would say its not worth it. Stick to NTSC stuff if you want to see the "wow" factor on a Loewe (with HTPC of cause)

    Software plays a big importance too on HTPCs, Theatre tec, WinDVD etc...

    Jack
     
  25. mgns

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    2. You can buy a TV with a VGA input, LOEWE TVs 32 inch+ (nb they do not do 36inch!! just a 40 inch!) can have VGA upgrades amongst other things added to them
    and can apparently do high resolutions ( go to http://www.petermartin.co.uk) for information on they can do. The cheapest place I have seen Loewes is http://www.tvandvideodirect.com.


    when previously browsing through both sites, i noticed that petermartin had the vga upgrade for £75 whilst it was £160 at tvandvideodirect. i don't have a clue as to whether the price difference has any good reason behind it. although, petermartin charge extra (£40?) for a recommended install.

    mgns
     
  26. pmjoyce

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    That really interesting Jack - what sort of connection were you running from HTPC to the Mimo?
     
  27. Jack Bowyer

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    You would use a vga cable if a htpc or pc is hooked upto a Loewe.

    This method will also bypass all internal processing (colour, sharpness settings etc) its important to have your pc loaded up with good software including powerstrip for aspect control and so on....

    As I said before you will only ever gain by this method if you have a rather large NTSC collection - but boy o boy what a difference (if properly done !!)


    Jack
     
  28. pmjoyce

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    Looked at a Mimo 32 today - I think that's the set for me. Got them to hook it up to a dvd player using RGB scart and the qualitiy was suberb.

    Jack - why is there such a pronounced difference with NTSC prog scan but not PAL, or is this a complete noob question?
     
  29. mgns

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    pmjoyce - could you answer a couple of questions please? - i'm finding it difficult to see a properly set up loewe near me.

    what were your impressions of the mimo? did you see any other sources apart from dvd? was an expensive dvd player/scart used?

    cheers

    mgns
     
  30. pmjoyce

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    I've got the Loewe Authorised Retailer List 2004, it's broken down by county. I called a few but eventually went to House of Fraser in Reading as not all had the Mimo. They had a standard analogue feed going into the set to begin but on request they plugged in a dvd player (a Toshiba i think with RGB scart).

    My impressions were very good - unfortunately they had a 42" Sepheros sitting just next to it which kinda stole it's thunder! The Mimo is a beautifully styled machine IMHO but the picture was also superb compared to other sets from the same source.

    I don't have a scanner but I can take a few digi pictures of the Authorized retailer list if that would help you track down an agent.
     

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