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CRT vs DLP & LCD

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Tibbsy, Apr 16, 2003.

  1. Tibbsy

    Tibbsy
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    (Mod Note : Added to FAQ)

    I've been looking at DLP and LCD projectors at around the £3000 mark. I've recently read a thread regarding CRT projectors and wonder if I'm not missing a trick. Can anyone give me an objective view of how DLP & LCD projectors stack up against CRT machines at this price range?

    Regards, Tibbsy
     
  2. nathan_silly

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    Been done to death.. here's my own opinion...

    CRT Pro's...
    Good black level
    More filmic picture quality
    Serviceable R,G,B tubes
    No screendoor effect

    CRT cons
    Big unit
    Requires converging
    Expensive to replace lens/guns
    Requires pitch black room


    LCD Pro..
    small units
    easy to setup, single lens

    LCD cons..
    alot of heat - powerful bulb
    screendoor effect
    LCD matrix pixel death
    dust clogs up the unit, requires frequent cleaning
    Noisy, due to extra fans
    Poor grey level
    Expensive bulb
    Expensive LCD matrix, if needed


    DLP (not much knowledge) Cons...
    Rainbow effect can cause epileptic fits.

    Probably missed some, so anyone else add more?
     
  3. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    In pure picture terms there is not an LCD or DLP on the market that can claim to have a better picture than a properly setup CRT machine.
    But here's the rub a CRT PJ must be properly setup in order for it to remain stable and acurate. Once there they are the closest you will get to film.
     
  4. LV426

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    ....provided you don't have 'fast' eyes and can see the refresh rate that all CRT devices exhibit, which can manifest itself as either simple flicker, or, worse, rainbows that are like (but admittedly not as bad as) DLP.
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Nigel: Roland commented it's the closest you can get to film. Film has a 48Hz refresh rate and I can see it at the cinema so I guess you can too. Would 50Hz flicker not be classed as film like?

    Gordon
     
  6. Jeff

    Jeff
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    You could use a higher refresh rate. :rolleyes:

    In fact the ability to use different refresh rates and resolutions is one of CRTs biggest advantages.
     
  7. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    I can detect flicker at 60 hz but not above.

    The DLP rainbow, even from the very clever Barco CineVersum makes the picture disturbing for me.

    I keep trying them just in case

    LCD and DLP are catching up but they are no there yet.
     
  8. LV426

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    It would be if the entire frame were uniformly illuminated for a defined period of time (the shutter speed of the projector), followed by a brief period of darkness, followed by the next entire frame.

    As I'm sure you know, a CRT works by illuminating, at any given moment in time, a pinprick on the screen which then immediately begins to fade until the next time it is energised.

    In other words, if you were to plot a graph of brightness on any one given point on the screen (ie the size of the focussed electron beam, as projected), a cinema projector would produce (something like) a square wave, whereas a CRT device would produce something like a sawtooth.

    It's made worse, as far as I can tell by observation only, in 3-tube PJs by the fact that they don't energise the three colours at the same point at the same moment in time. Which is why I can see rainbows on CRTs (when running at 72hz, IIRC from 'The Event', and from last year's 'Manchester').
     
  9. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    I'm out of this one

    Nigel you are the only person in my whole career who has ever seen a rainbow effect from a CRT projector.

    Tibbsy I hope we have been objective enough
     
  10. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    Indeed Nigel I am aware of how CRT's work. You know I was only having a laugh.

    I suppose the point that can be made from all this is that you must use your own eyes and brain to work out what you feel is an acceptable compromise in a display device, as all are compromised somehow!

    Gordon
     
  11. LV426

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    Maybe so. However, after last year's 'Manchester' at least one other (totally unconnected) person posted, on either this, or the dvdforums, exactly the same observation about the Denon room setup. So I'm definitely not alone. (I confess I may be one of only two, however). And I DID see rainbows in the scaler demo room at 'the Event'. No question.

    I would be the first to acknowledge that it is impossible to describe or convince someone who cannot see refresh rate flicker and similar artefacts how intrusive it is.

    I recall, some years ago, visiting a Sony store with a friend. At the time, Sony made (I think) the only 100hx TV - a 29 inch 4x3 job and - to me- it stood out a mile amongst the other sets in the shop. To my friend - it was undetectable. There was no way he could 'see' any difference.
     
  12. Paul D

    Paul D
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    I agree with Nigel about CRTs having some sort of rainbow effect
    I posted over at the AVS forums about this effect, and was met with comments that i must be mad!
    Ok i might be mad, but i know what i see etc. :zonked:
    On very bright scenes, if i scan my eyes across the picture, i get a similiar effect to DLP rainbows.
    I think it is caused by the phosphur decay being different for each colour tube.
    Don't get me wrong, this effect in CRTs is nowhere near the level that DLPs show, but it is still there.
    Refresh rates don't seem to alter this effect, so it may also be due to the slight difference in signal times to the guns etc.(or maybe not!)
    To get back to Tibbsys question:-
    What Roland says about CRTs being best if setup properly is still true.
    I have seen some members post here about their new LCD/DLP giving a better image than their old CRT. All that shows is that their CRT either was a cheap-poorly setup model or broke!
    However, like Roland says, things are changing and LCD/DLP are getting better. Sony are bringing out a new SXRD (LCOS-D-ILA) projector soon that does look promising.
    Digital projectors are also more "plug and play", and need little warm up time.
    I, like most CRT owners keep demo-ing new digital projectors to see how they stack up against our PJs, but although close, they are not there yet.
    I tend to forget about digital projectors faults of poor black levels and screendoor/vertical banding, when i start to get bored with my CRT picture!
    What i mean by this is that over time, all PJ owners start to wish that their picture was a bit sharper/clearer/brighter/higher contrast/more colourful/quieter (pick any from the list!).
    I then have a visit to my local AV shop and have a quick look at the latest offerings.
    That normally does the trick! and i fall back in love with my PJ:rotfl:
    So if you have the space, a used CRT (Barco 808s for example)combined with a HTPC/scaler would just about be in your budget.
    Just don't forget to allow for a proper installation fee for one of the above installers/calibraters!:smashin:
     
  13. gwbailey

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    That might be me Nigal...I seen them at Manchester and also on a couple of Seleco's (500/800) at a local shop!

    The only Projectors i've never seen them on is LCD's but i'm not too keen on the blacks..so i'm hopeing that Sony's new SXRD is going to be the one? but i'm not holding my breath though!!

    Regards,
     
  14. LV426

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    Roland - now you know of two more.... That makes three!
     

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