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CRT v Single lense device...not even close

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by uncle eric, Sep 25, 2001.

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  1. uncle eric

    uncle eric
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    Not yet anyway.<br />I'm currently doing a couple of installs for some friends one of whom does not want (for various reasons including size) a CRT projector.<br />Budget for Single lense projector can go to around 7/8K.<br />Having completed a little research I've narrowed the choice down to the Seleco/Sim2 250 and the Sharp 9000 which is about to hit soon.

    I managed to find a Sim2 200 last week and luckily was able to do an instant shootout with a Sony D50 (7" CRT) which also happens to reside in my dealer friends demo room.

    My first impressions were ok really. The Sim 200 DLP performed on a different level to my old Sony VPL 900 LCD from way back when.<br />Looking at the screen (Stewart Studiotek 130) and standing further than 6 ft away rendered the pixels virtually invisible. I also found this DLP to be very quiet (especially when I remember the Hoover like noise of my old Sony Lcd from years ago.<br />On the whole the DLP had a very pleasent user interface making the machine a cinch to set up. So far so good.

    Then we switched to the Sony D50 having obscured the light from the SIM2(Side note* we left both machines running so as to maintain warm up in order that we could do instant back and forth comparisons by obscuring each machine in turn)

    Having looked at the Sony D50 I could see right away that it was in a much lower league than the Barco 808s that I have in my dedicated room, I've really been spoilt by my 808s, which, once warmed up looks totaly glorious. Anyway, I diden't spend two hours there to pat myself on the back and enlarge my head, back to the comparison.

    First thing I noticed was that the CRT was much brighter. This surely is incorrect!!!! <br />Most single lense fans take the micky out of our puny CRT ANSI brightness figures. I even read something last week to the effect that if a CRT guy were to 'ungrade' to an LCD/DLP we would need welders goggles.....From my brief comparison, I dont think so!<br />Of course, I was unable to make it to 'The Event' and would welcome comments from people who did.(Any sunglasses needed for your shootouts?)

    Getting back to the brightness issue, I can only put it down to contrast differences between the two machines.<br />The CRT having a far bigger difference between black and white probably accounted for my brain telling me the CRT was brighter.<br />Because the blacks were so much blacker, the whites looked much whiter, hence the percieved 'extra' brightness of the CRT.<br />Having said that, percieved brightness was not the only issue I pondered on.

    The colours of the DLP looked so much more artificial than the CRT. The image as a whole looked more 'digital' hence less lifelike than the CRT.<br />Also as with most CRT the image just seems easy on the eye. More restfull to watch if you like.

    As usual I'm open to all opinions from both camps and would welcome any advice on the search for a 'Good' single lense device.<br />Hopefully, something that wont look a million miles away from a CRT. Fingers crossed.

    Eric

    [ 25-09-2001: Message edited by: uncle eric ]</p>
     
  2. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    But CRT is brighter than its equivalent LCD/DLP!

    A good CRT should produce 1000 to 1200 peak lumens. That is a 10% amount of white in any area of the screen. An average video picture will have about 5 to 15% peak white in. This obviously varries from frame to frame dependant on the content. (200 ansi lumens)

    Your average LCD/DLP projecter is putting out about 600-1000 lumens in any area on the screen. In fact to these chaps it doesn't matter if its 5% or 95% the lamps glowing any way. But what they can't do is to ramp up that light. (600-1000 ansi lumens)

    Contrast is the one these digital devices struggle with. Colours are getting closer, rainbow and lag effects are getting better.

    Because CRT projectors start black and make light they have an excelent contrast ratio the difference between black and white (measured for a properly set up picture). For a good CRT this should be about 1000:1 For most LCD/DLPs they are between 300 and 700:1. still far too much light in the black areas.

    Unfortueatly we get tricked too because our eyes adapt to the suroundings. The brightest looking picture initially looks the best but it may in actual fact be washed out.

    The one lesson we all learned from The Event is that setup has far more to do with our peception of a good image than any specification under the sun. (Anyone can buy a good camera, but do we take better photographs as a result)

    Us CRT ludites still have a future for a while but the writing is on the wall. One day we be able to post to say that there is a technology that is better than a 9" CRT projector. But not today.

    [ 25-09-2001: Message edited by: Roland@B4 ]</p>
     
  3. Guest

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    Whats the spec on the Sharp 9000 you mention?

    I havnt heard of this,has it just been released?<br /> <br />Doug
     
  4. uncle eric

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    Roland,<br />I agree. I think I people get conned by the silly figures quoted by some of the LCD/DLP makers (exept Sim2 who seem to be on the ball with what they claim)<br />Panasonic recently claimed a contrast ratio of 1,200 for one of their plasma tv's. Yes and I'm Elvis.<br />Lets wait a while and see how the DLP boys get on. <br />Apparently better blacks are just around the corner for this technology.<br />T.I. is about to release a chip with mirrors that swivel to 12 degrees instead of 9.<br />This should, in theory produce blacker blacks as it re-directs more unwanted light than the 9 degree chip currently being used.

    Doug,<br />I believe the specs to be similar to the Sim2, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    Eric
     
  5. rdg

    rdg
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    I don't doubt the benefits of CRT, and hoped to get one. However, it looks like it cannot now be accomodated space-wise, so sometims the best you can fit is the best you can do, and the DLPs are coming in leaps and bounds.<br />The question is when will the 12 degree mirrors and spiral wheels enter the market? And what after that? It does seem like 'Intelitis', and that's hardly good for the consumer - Sim2 might do better if they part exchanged/upgraded wheels. That for me is now the biggest problem.
     
  6. HouseofMu

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    Consider any of they newly announced DLP's that are based on TI's new HD-1 DMD.

    Its' a 16:9 panel, 1280x720 resolution, 1000:1 contrast and (I think) using the 12 degree mirrors.

    TI's 8/8/01 press release: <a href="http://www.dlp.com/dlp/resources/resources_results.asp?PR=178" target="_blank">http://www.dlp.com/dlp/resources/resources_results.asp?PR=178</a>

    Quite a few manufacturers with projectors based on this were at the recent CEDIA show.

    Problem is there all v.pricey at the mo. give it another year there should be more choice and hopefully a much reduced price.

    Having said all that about DLP, the new Ellie XS3000 sounds superb, price approx £6k. Does anybody know of big these units are? One of my main concerns about CRT is their weight resulting in my lounge ceiling collapsing.

    Does anybody have any comparison experience of any of the HD-1 based DLP's against similar priced CRTs?

    n.
     
  7. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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  8. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Roland,

    All being well I should have my new 1100:1 contrast DLP projector in about a months time (they are in sort supply at the moment). You are more than welcome to come over and take a look once its setup, maybe we could even do a mini shootout. I'm hoping to get Gordon to come down to help me out if his fee isn't too steep. It would be very interesting to do a Gordonised DLP vs Rolandised CRT shootout in the same room, same source, same screen etc. What do you think?

    Jeff
     
  9. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Bring it on.

    I think it is better to do side by side.

    [ 26-09-2001: Message edited by: Roland@B4 ]</p>
     
  10. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    What a laugh!!!! Let me know when you have it Jeff. I'd be up for a visit to see yo and Kryton on home turf. Not sure exactly what I could do with your DLP. I'd need to see the iinstructions etc.

    I'm with Roland on the contrast spec.

    Jeff, can you email me with which model you're getting so I can do some research.

    Ta,

    Gordon
     
  11. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Gordon you have mail.
     
  12. uncle eric

    uncle eric
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    Jeff,<br />Sorry, I seem to be losing brain cells faster than the rest of you. Which DLP are you getting?

    Eric
     
  13. Jeff

    Jeff
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    The Sharp XV-Z9000.

    Jeff
     
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