Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Paul D, Nov 8, 2001.
First up Barco 808s.
Second up SonyVW10HT.
First of all this is not a contest between LCD and CRT just a comparison. I loved the image from the Vw10HT, it was only the poor "Total" black level that i didn't like. For 95% of the time the image was immaculate.
The main difference which the pics below don't really show is the total absence of pixels/screen door/scanlines using the quadscan elite. I mean you can touch the screen and still see NOTHING except colour blotches, just like film!.
The pictures do not show the full quality of both projectors.
Plus the Barcodata 808s has not been fully setup yet.
For more pics select "New cinema pics" from below.
Let me know what you think!.
Save both pics, then open them side by side.
Look at the background detail, plus the colour balance.
I repeat the above statement, this is not a competition between CRT/LCD/DLP. Just the difference!.
I will sort out more side by side picture on my website.
Only if you have the space. CRT is "at the moment" the only projector to give film like quality, plus total black level. Secondhand, CRT is not as expensive as people think!. But don't contact me!. There are lots of people on this site who can advise you further!. (I will mention NO names!!! )
However if you don't have the space, LCD/DLP are getting better by the day and are not as bad as some CRT owners try to make out!.
Like i was advised when i started out(but ignored), demo all projectors before buying. Not that it is that easy, with the state of shops with good demo facilities!.
Just seen your new photos and it looks very good! Just waiting to get mine sorted now, having withdrawel symptomns
Love the pictures!!
how much was the 808s?..what vintage?..how do you have it fed-via p.c.?
Hang in there Phil!!!
Douglas. I seem to be having lack of "total recall" on price!. To be honest i wouldn't like to say as price is dependant on condition/hours/age etc. You would have to contact "any" one of the CRT suppliers on this forum!.
The Model is the Barcodata 808s. It was made in 1997.
It has Iris2 auto convergence.
I have made up a 15 to 9 pin "D" lead., from the PC to the PJ.
I have only run the PC at 1024x768 at the moment, using WinDVD3.0. The PJ auto sync-ed to this res straight away.
The Quadscan Elite uses the RGBHV BNC input. If need be, the QS has a 15 pin "D" computer "pass through". That way you do not have to use the 9 pin input!.
On the question of CRT being like the cinema I have this thought
At the cinema it is a single lense projector that throws the film onto the screen. This is therefore like an LCD or DLP device
How about the idea that when you view a film via a CRT projector it does not look like a film you would see at the cinema - it is more smooth - so it is more like a television picture
Using a CRT projector is not like the cinema - the picture is different. It could be argued that LCD or DLP is more like the actual picture you see at a cinema as these are single lense devices
Under the same thought process if we only have two ears why have so many speakers!
I just wait for the LCD/DLP marketeers."it must be more like film, there is only one lens"
When I saw a CRT image I thought yes that is a very smooth picture. But then when I go to the cinema I think the picture does not look like the picture the CRT gives - its not as smooth
In fact LCD or DLP is nearer it. This was the thought I had
I think that what we are trying to do is get the best looking picture full stop
Whether it looks close to your local cinema is not really the issue.
They have failings that dvd/crt does not ie blacks, grain, movement of film in gate, contamination of the light beam due to dust/larger distances, ect. In fact just about the only things better about cinema is resolution and brightness (allowing larger screens) and in that regard domestic lcd/crt/dila/dlp are about even with each other.
I think that most people who see Fulabeer's home setup will think it better than 90% of the cinemas they've been to!
Film- analogue non-linear distribution of intensities ( captures more information in the lower intensities than upper whites : your eyeball likes this thats why its designed into film and video to a similar extent) Pros detail in the blacks and your eye percieves a smoother fall off into peak white.
CRT -analogue display non-linear distribution curve ideally the inverse gamma of the displayed material video ( nothing fancy its a mechanical function of the tubes) Resultant image is characterised with the correct realisation of the intensity range of the input material: ie smoother fall off into peak white and at the opposite end into black. This mechanism should also limit the possibility of percieved banding in the lower intensities.
Fixed panel projectors: DLP , LCD , have linear display characteristics and require software gamma correction to disclose acceptably with regard to photographed images. ( probably one of the reasons for the delineation between home cinema projectors and conference projectors)
This analogue non-linear characteristic of CRT displays and the approaching film levels of intensity scale ( say about 1:1000 for arguments sake) make me suggest that CRT is inherently the closest to film projection you will get but done correctly there is no reason to assume that DLP or other panel technologies could not resolve filmic/video images correctly. ( whether they are optimised to do so is another thing)
CRT also has the advantage over film of having a lower blackpoint ( by virtue of the fact that CRs create black with unexcited phosphor rather than shinin ga bright light through a never entirely opaque emulsion as in film : although backscatter and residual phosphor excitement can lessen this difference. There is no reason why you couldn't calibrate a CRT projector for film gamma and colour temp ( would strain the red gun a bit I suspect though and I suspect not every unit could handle the intensity scale with sufficient accuracy to disclose the tighter non-linear distribution)
maybe we should really be looking at the quality of the DVD transfers than the projection method ultimately.
No amount of good home kit will make up for a poorly mastered DVD, in fact quite the opposite it will reveal artifacts subjectively not present on lower-end home systems.
Plus, people keep batting on quite rightly about DVD picture quality but let's face it how good is a TV system that is decades old and is distributed using a highly compressed video stream, me thinks we are stretching the capabilities of a somewhat technologically weak source which in comparison to VHS seems a miracle.
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